Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #4

[MistyWaters]

The ligature neck compression could have been from a scarf she was wearing.

The reports of men's belts could be true and after she was dead, a man's belt was put around her neck around the railing.

All of this is pure speculation on my part but since the police definitely state the cause of death was ligature neck compression - something else could have been used to kill her.

I'm just thinking of a possible scenario. We know that her cause of death was ligature neck compression. There was plenty of time to "stage".

I'm still not sure what to think about this case so this isn't my theory but something else could have been used as a ligature when it happened to cause her death.

I'm not able to imagine the logistics of a murder-suicide scenario with both deaths caused by ligature neck compression either.

If she was strangled with a scarf or anything else in a moment of rage then afterward he'd have to strategically seek out an opportunity to stage her body and arrange himself in such a way in order to commit suicide in the same manner. I can't help but think the complexities involving suicide with a belt, coat securing the arms, using a pool bar just doesn't seem like a spontaneous notion. It rings more of torture and slow death to me:-(

 

[ldlager]

I don't think this has been posted before. CP24 news in Toronto ran a report tonight. The reporter in the newscast refers to LE's initial statements that they were investigating this as a potential murder suicide. The reporter then specifically states "...I have checked with police, who say that they stand by their initial comments...". This statement is in the video at 1:07.
LE continues to be on the right track IMO.

https://www.cp24.com/video?clipId=1300043

 

[Grey-St]

I don't think this has been posted before. CP24 news in Toronto ran a report tonight. The reporter in the newscast refers to LE's initial statements that they were investigating this as a potential murder suicide. The reporter then specifically states "...I have checked with police, who say that they stand by their initial comments...". This statement is in the video at 1:07.
LE continues to be on the right track IMO.

https://www.cp24.com/video?clipId=1300043

That's really strange, because LE never actually made that statement.

 

[Tortoise]

I don't think this has been posted before. CP24 news in Toronto ran a report tonight. The reporter in the newscast refers to LE's initial statements that they were investigating this as a potential murder suicide. The reporter then specifically states "...I have checked with police, who say that they stand by their initial comments...". This statement is in the video at 1:07.
LE continues to be on the right track IMO.

https://www.cp24.com/video?clipId=1300043

I just listened to this and I haven't been able to find the part where she says "LE's initial statements were that they were investigating this as a potential murder suicide."

She says that Greenspan says "by saying things like there was no forced entry into this home and that police are not looking for any outstanding suspects, he says that by police saying that it led the public to believe that this was a murder suicide."

Which means that police have added nothing to their initial statement.

 

[ohreally]

I don't think this has been posted before. CP24 news in Toronto ran a report tonight. The reporter in the newscast refers to LE's initial statements that they were investigating this as a potential murder suicide. The reporter then specifically states "...I have checked with police, who say that they stand by their initial comments...". This statement is in the video at 1:07.
LE continues to be on the right track IMO.

https://www.cp24.com/video?clipId=1300043

I watched the whole video and later in the video they say that police are calling it suspicious deaths. I do think the police are standing by thier initial comment that the deaths are suspicious. It says nothing in the report that the police are standing by the comment of an unconfirmed source that it is murder-suicide. Just my take on the report.

 

[ldlager]

The LE statement said in part that they were "not searching for any outstanding suspects". Based on the reporters alleged discussion with LE today, and after more than 3 weeks of on site and forensic investigation, the police are standing by their initial comments. They know the answer.

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

I don't think that it's even possible for a charitable donation to be given this soon after death.

Perhaps it was already in the works prior to their death?

THAT might point to a murder/suicide.

Would there be a tax benefit to the people named in the will if a chunk of money had been given to a charity prior to death?

How long does it take to probate a will in Canada?
Surely much longer than it has been.

While I don't believe any $ from a will would have been dispersed yet, it does make me question, had this $ been gifted prior to their deaths?

If so, was there a family member of HS, BS or both who had any prior problems with addiction/mental illness? (That MSM has reported on)

I really don't think this case will ever be cut and dry,
unless there was a note or a
manifesto left that has not been released to the public.

MOO


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[debanng]

Everyone has had excellent points. The more theories/ideas etc out there, the better for processing our opinions. I’m sure I will take the heat here for suggesting this but i need to say it....i watched a bit of funeral, and know that no two people grieve the same, but, i did find the childrens interactions odd. And correct me if Im wrong, but did the son say while addressing his parents that they had put their differences aside and vowed to contact each other every day? Or something to that effect?
No doubt they were raised in an environment of wealth, are they the product of a entitled lifestyle, or taught from the school of “hard work”. Somehow I think that would be BS parenting way, but who knows.....all speculation.
To me the children looked younger than i expected. Maybe that’s my issue? Maybe their youth, and not entitlement is why they immediately demanded a secondary investigation?

very odd indeed. Angry and mj cloned.

 

[debanng]

they werent taught the school of hard knocks. Not at all. Billions of dollars in inheritance and only one can speak and angrily at their deaths?

 

[Tighthead]

I don't think that it's even possible for a charitable donation to be given this soon after death.

Perhaps it was already in the works prior to their death?

THAT might point to a murder/suicide.

Would there be a tax benefit to the people named in the will if a chunk of money had been given to a charity prior to death?

How long does it take to probate a will in Canada?
Surely much longer than it has been.

While I don't believe any $ from a will would have been dispersed yet, it does make me question, had this $ been gifted prior to their deaths?

If so, was there a family member of HS, BS or both who had any prior problems with addiction/mental illness? (That MSM has reported on)

I really don't think this case will ever be cut and dry,
unless there was a note or a
manifesto left that has not been released to the public.

MOO


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Obtaining probate usually takes 6 months but could be longer in this case. It all depends on how their assets were held - family trusts etc, if they did a second will for private shares.

I doubt they are the donors but if the pledge was made through a family trust or holding company it could in theory proceed.

 

[kiwi50]

I was a bit surprised at some of the sons words at funeral, like how his father missed his hole in one because he was digging into his briefcase, and the “couple of times” he hit balls in the yard with him. I think Barry Sherman didn’t play a big part in his kids’ lives, and Honey was the glue that bound them together.

 

[AddyFinch]

I was a bit surprised at some of the sons words at funeral, like how his father missed his hole in one because he was digging into his briefcase, and the “couple of times” he hit balls in the yard with him. I think Barry Sherman didn’t play a big part in his kids’ lives, and Honey was the glue that bound them together.

I agree. The son did sound angry, and who wouldn't be esp after this manner of death.
I also don't think the CAMH donation was the Sherman's.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I don't think this has been posted before. CP24 news in Toronto ran a report tonight. The reporter in the newscast refers to LE's initial statements that they were investigating this as a potential murder suicide. The reporter then specifically states "...I have checked with police, who say that they stand by their initial comments...". This statement is in the video at 1:07.
LE continues to be on the right track IMO.

https://www.cp24.com/video?clipId=1300043

I just listened to this and I haven't been able to find the part where she says "LE's initial statements were that they were investigating this as a potential murder suicide."

She says that Greenspan says "by saying things like there was no forced entry into this home and that police are not looking for any outstanding suspects, he says that by police saying that it led the public to believe that this was a murder suicide."

Which means that police have added nothing to their initial statement.

At the end of the video, the reporter said she was told by TPS spokesman Mark Pugash that 'when they release this scene (the Sherman home that is still under police seal) they will let the public know.'

That's promising if we can expect a statement and possibly a news conference once they have completed investigating the Sherman home.

I imagine with PI Tom Klatt's investigators canvassing the neighbourhood, the TPS might have their backs up no matter how much mutual respect they have for each other.

Greenspan didn't address the leaks about the belts, location of the bodies and that HS was injured/killed first in another part of the home than where the sources said she was ultimately found etc. If that were all not true I'd expect him to address it and to ask for retraction from the MSM that reported it.

 

[JDG]

I don't think this has been posted before. CP24 news in Toronto ran a report tonight. The reporter in the newscast refers to LE's initial statements that they were investigating this as a potential murder suicide. The reporter then specifically states "...I have checked with police, who say that they stand by their initial comments...". This statement is in the video at 1:07.
LE continues to be on the right track IMO.

https://www.cp24.com/video?clipId=1300043

LE never said that. It was a 'source'.

LE have always called it suspicious and they will continue to until they have completed the investigation. IMO

AFAIK TPS is still holding the scene. If they knew it was a murder/suicide and the perp was dead, the homicide squad would not still be there, common sense. IMO

 

[JDG]

I was a bit surprised at some of the sons words at funeral, like how his father missed his hole in one because he was digging into his briefcase, and the “couple of times” he hit balls in the yard with him. I think Barry Sherman didn’t play a big part in his kids’ lives, and Honey was the glue that bound them together.

Work a holics don't usually have a big part in their childrens' lives. They mostly live at work, bring work on vaycay as BS is known to have done.

IMO, Jonathan was in a state of shock and horror when he gave the eulogy. As he stated, it was raw, honest and probably very difficult for him.
So was Honeys' sister, Mary. Their pain was palpable and their grief almost unbearable to watch.

I hope they are coping better as the days pass.

 

[Grey-St]

The LE statement said in part that they were "not searching for any outstanding suspects". Based on the reporters alleged discussion with LE today, and after more than 3 weeks of on site and forensic investigation, the police are standing by their initial comments. They know the answer.

That's okay if they're standing by that statement, but that's much different than what you said in the original post.

I also don't know if I believe that means "they know the answer". I don't think they have many answers if they are still investigating. Some investigations can take a year to conclude before charges are laid, sometimes longer. We are coming up to a month here, but suicides are often rule on and closed within days. Murder-suicides likely not long after. It's interesting to say the least.

 

[ldlager]

LE never said that. It was a 'source'.

LE have always called it suspicious and they will continue to until they have completed the investigation. IMO

AFAIK TPS is still holding the scene. If they knew it was a murder/suicide and the perp was dead, the homicide squad would not still be there, common sense. IMO

Thanks for your comment JDG. Since TPS isn't releasing any details or making any announcements how do we actually know that homicide squad members are still involved?

 

[Grey-St]

they werent taught the school of hard knocks. Not at all. Billions of dollars in inheritance and only one can speak and angrily at their deaths?

With all do respect, you would really have no idea what they were taught or how they were parented. Are you honestly judging them based on their grief stricken, traumatized states at the memorial service? Anger can be a trauma response. Anger can be a grief response. Dissociation can be a trauma response. Dissociation can be a grief response. I could go on, but all of that, added with the fact that they were in front of thousands of people at a televised event memorializing their dead parents, is significant. The fact that Jonathon could speak at all is remarkable.

 

[Grey-St]

I was a bit surprised at some of the sons words at funeral, like how his father missed his hole in one because he was digging into his briefcase, and the “couple of times” he hit balls in the yard with him. I think Barry Sherman didn’t play a big part in his kids’ lives, and Honey was the glue that bound them together.

It was interesting, but what he also said was that the moments where his dad was present were his world series'. I think whether or not BS always showed up for his kids, he still was likely adored by them.

 

[ldlager]

With all do respect, you would really have no idea what they were taught or how they were parented. Are you honestly judging them based on their grief stricken, traumatized states at the memorial service? Anger can be a trauma response. Angry can be a grief response. Dissociation can be a trauma response. Dissociation can be a grief response. I could go on, but all of that, added with the fact that they were in front of thousands of people at a televised event memorializing their dead parents, is significant. The fact that Jonathon could speak at all is remarkable.

Well said!