Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #4

[JDG]

LE are at no obligation to disclose these details when an autopsy is concluded, unfortunately. They release cause of death, and that's usually it.

I'm going to assume that the family, and their team, are tired of waiting for TPS to move their stance on MOD from suspicious, to homicide. From the Toronto Star article, it sounds like they are co-operating greatly with LE, and both the investigations are running parallel and likely uncovering the same information, but they want the public to finally know that there is significant evidence to support a double-homicide. Jmo.

If this is how it went down, that they were targeted in their home, bound by their wrists, strangulated with belts, I can only imagine the pain and fear they felt. I think I'm creeping over the fence folks. I just wish TPS would come out and say it already.

With TPS still holding the crime scene, I doubt they've even begun a parallel investigation yet. Ideas, brainstorming? yes, of course but they cannot do anything until the crime scene is handed over to them. IMO

Im not expecting much in the way of discrepancies as far as the autopsies/investigations are concerned. Both will be thorough and hopefully, in time they'll have a suspect and enough evidence to prosecute. IMO

You only think you're creeping over the fence? LOL too funny! <joking>

 

[Grey-St]

With TPS still holding the crime scene, I doubt they've even begun a parallel investigation yet. Ideas, brainstorming? yes, of course but they cannot do anything until the crime scene is handed over to them. IMO

Im not expecting much in the way of discrepancies as far as the autopsies/investigations are concerned. Both will be thorough and hopefully, in time they'll have a suspect and enough evidence to prosecute. IMO

You only think you're creeping over the fence? LOL too funny! <joking>

Lol, yes, just creeping over a wee bit .

But yeah, I mean running a parallel investigation with everything they possibly have access to at this point, pending release of the crime scene. I don't expect them to find anything there that LE missed, either.

 

[JDG]

I’m thinking their silence is d/t professional integrity. Besides they still need to get paid for work already started, so you don’t want to tick off the executor who will eventually need to settle all accounts?

If there is a prosecution, the architect and realtor will be pretty significant witnesses and some of the last to see the Shermans alive.
So, yes, part of it is professionalism but the other part is to keep the information away from the media and not mess up any chances of a conviction. That is what is paramount. IMO

I do feel for the family, it must be hard to keep waiting for answers, where there may be none. Losing your parents is tough enough but this added dimension must be quite unbearable. IMO

 

[AddyFinch]

Agree all round.
I think there is some validity to the Star article.
I can hear it play out...&#8221;you want to release that, then its on you, but we&#8217;re not finished with the scene, and it ain&#8217;t over til we say it&#8217;s over.&#8221;
I am sure TPS does not want any more criticsm. And will exhaust all avenues, before signing crime scene over. I agree that both investigations will find the same, only TPS has the advantage of seeing it real and raw from beginning.

 

[pamelado2]

When I read the news title I rushed to read it. But when I saw that there is no "according to police sources" or "a source close to the investigation"; my apologies but this reads more like a paid advertisement than real news. MOO, IMHO, JMO
I can't think of any other case were the people hired by the family comes to a conclusion without waiting for the police to finish their investigation. They haven't even seen all the evidence that the police has painstakingly been collecting for more than a month. MOO, IMHO, JMO

How could it say according to police sources when this isn't a police investigation?

Also, they are basing what they've said on what they know - they have simply released autopsy results and told how they were found. (Unlike the police who only said their deaths are suspicious.)

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[pamelado2]

Seems strange that the first autopsy didn't identify the ligature marks around their wrists - or, if it did, that TPS didn't modify their statement about the deaths. If this theory of how they were killed is true, it sounds like a hideous and frightening way to die. Kind of wish they had found drugs in their systems.

We have no idea what the LE's autopsy revealed, they haven't released anything except COD. Also, LE has been completely tight-lipped since the beginning. I LOVE the fact that they are somewhat taking matters into their own hands with an extremely experienced investigative team. I have a feeling that the team they put together no doubt have much more experience than LE. If I were ever in the same situation and had the means, I'd do the same.

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[Snoop Sister]

When I read the news title I rushed to read it. But when I saw that there is no "according to police sources" or "a source close to the investigation"; my apologies but this reads more like a paid advertisement than real news. MOO, IMHO, JMO
I can't think of any other case were the people hired by the family comes to a conclusion without waiting for the police to finish their investigation. They haven't even seen all the evidence that the police has painstakingly been collecting for more than a month. MOO, IMHO, JMO

Exactly!!

 

[Veeduck]

Alex Pierson, on Global News Radio 640 Toronto, had two interviews about the Sherman case yesterday:

1. Investigative reporter Kevin Donovan about his recent article in the Toronto Star. (7:29)

https://omny.fm/shows/on-point-with-alex-pierson/report-barry-and-honey-sherman-were-murdered

2. Private investigator Dave Perry about the Sherman investigation, starting at 8:12. (13:11)

https://omny.fm/shows/on-point-with-alex-pierson/dave-perry-private-investigator-talks-about-toront

 

[Snoop Sister]

Just wondering who exactly is the source for the murder scenario? The private investigators have not even been in the house yet. I think it is rather premature to dub as a murder. It really is a rumour until a legitimate source is named. Thoughts?

 

[nuff]

Alex Pierson, on Global News Radio 640 Toronto, had two interviews about the Sherman case yesterday:

1. Investigative reporter Kevin Donovan about his recent article in the Toronto Star. (7:29)

https://omny.fm/shows/on-point-with-alex-pierson/report-barry-and-honey-sherman-were-murdered

So, according to Donovan, who is a careful and excellent journalist IMO, the family's private team and TPS are not working together at all yet.

 

[nuff]

Just wondering who exactly is the source for the murder scenario? The private investigators have not even been in the house yet. I think it is rather premature to dub as a murder. It really is a rumour until a legitimate source is named. Thoughts?

The sources are reliable IMO. Greenspan's and the investigators' credibility is on the line here. If each victim's wrists were tied together, what could it be but murder?

 

[Grey-St]

Just wondering who exactly is the source for the murder scenario? The private investigators have not even been in the house yet. I think it is rather premature to dub as a murder. It really is a rumour until a legitimate source is named. Thoughts?

The investigators and pathologist have been named. The source that described the crime scene said nothing more than what we've already heard.

 

[Tortoise]

Just wondering who exactly is the source for the murder scenario? The private investigators have not even been in the house yet. I think it is rather premature to dub as a murder. It really is a rumour until a legitimate source is named. Thoughts?

I'm intrigued by the wrist markings. They would know this from their own private autopsy so that's not really in doubt. Highly unlikely BS bound his own wrists IMO, and also took the binding off.

 

[Snoop Sister]

I'm intrigued by the wrist markings. They would know this from their own private autopsy so that's not really in doubt. Highly unlikely BS bound his own wrists IMO, and also took the binding off.

IMO this is still the most bazaar murder, murder-suicide, I have ever heard. What a way to go especially at their ages. SMH

 

[NaanOfYourBusiness]

The sources are reliable IMO. Greenspan's and the investigators' credibility is on the line here. If each victim's wrists were tied together, what could it be but murder?

We have the double-murder theory.
We have the murder-suicide theory.

Is anyone looking into the murder-ASSISTED-suicide theory? ... ie. Barry muders Honey. An Assistant ties Barry's wrists behind his back and helps Barry set up the hanging. The Assistant (paid by Barry) would be provided with access codes, keys, etc to perform their task efficiently.

 

[ldlager]

The private investigators are distinguished former homicide detectives. Dr. David Chiasson was formerly the chief forensic pathologist of Ontario. They are doing the exact same thing TPS are doing, they just have the liberty to share it with the media sooner than the others. Like I said earlier, it sounds like they are all cooperating greatly together, but they are frustrated that the public has only ever heard the murder-suicide theory, and they are tired of waiting.

Grey -St is correct, these are experienced investigators, which makes this public statement all the more troubling. If LE thinks this is a double murder, this disclosure could jeopardize their search for/surveillance of the possible suspects. Very troubling that this could happen.
I know my side of the fence doesn't have many folks on it with me, but I can't help but wonder if this story wasn't released to get the familiy's position out there because they may know that based on the actual evidence that LE has gathered, LE is Reaching the conclusion that this was a m/s. Imo

 

[Tighthead]

Grey -St is correct, these are experienced investigators, which makes this public statement all the more troubling. If LE thinks this is a double murder, this disclosure could jeopardize their search for/surveillance of the possible suspects. Very troubling that this could happen.
I know my side of the fence doesn't have many folks on it with me, but I can't help but wonder if this story wasn't released to get the familiy's position out there because they may know that based on the actual evidence that LE has gathered, LE is Reaching the conclusion that this was a m/s. Imo

Thats exactly what I am thinking. It seems like a preemptive move. Putting the information into the public domain seems very self serving.

 

[Jealoushe]

The police have an agenda and it's the same one they have had since day one. "33". Nothing to see here.... they have been instructed as such to treat it at M/s and leave it at that.

The private investigation has given us a glimpse at the truth. Explains why they recently took the other vehicle for forensics.

People don't want to believe it's a hit but every single things points to it being a hit. Now we have this article....sometimes the things you think are crazy and consipiracies are %100 real. Life isn't as simple as it seems.

 

[pamelado2]

Just wondering who exactly is the source for the murder scenario? The private investigators have not even been in the house yet. I think it is rather premature to dub as a murder. It really is a rumour until a legitimate source is named. Thoughts?

So then you're saying it's no longer a rumor? The article specifically names who preformed the autopsy and who's investigating. I personally see no reason to doubt the findings.

What i won't get after reading this is those who would support a murder/suicide theory that was put out there so prematurely. Seriously tho, how irresponsible was that mystery "source"? Hours after the bodies were found, long before an autopsy was performed they made up their minds based on what? Who's got egg on their face? (Of course we'll never know that! Who would want to come forward now and say they were that source!?!?)

Also, I'm of the belief that this will not hurt the investigation. If this was a professional hit or not, the killers are very well aware of the condition they left the bodies in. It wasn't set up to look like suicide. And I don't think they are concerned with who knows it was murder.



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[ldlager]

Interestingly tHe star article states "...Family sources say the last cellphone communication...". I am wondering if this is a clue as to who the source of the article is- ie a family member or family friend. Perhaps the PI's and Greenspan reported findings to the family who then leaked the info to the Star. Or family friends did. Perhaps going against the specific instructions from Greenspan NOT to do so. Very disturbing to think that if it is in fact a double murder, the LE investigation could be jeopardized as a result of these actions. Jmo