Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #7

[Grey-St]

I wasn't aware that BS has a sister. How old would she have been at the time the children's parents died?
Would she have been in a position to adopt four boys?

Going by media reports at the time of the murders/funeral, Im only aware that Honey Sherman had a sister.
Thought Barry was an only child.

For the adoptive parents to have no connection to the Trust, set up by the parents for the children, is exactly as it should be. It also puts to rest rumours that the Barkins blew the money.

As minors, there is no bargaining powers, its all up to the terms of the Trust and the Offical Guardian. AFAIK

Maybe a legal beagle could weigh in here and confirm or correct me.

Apparently his sister and her husband were suitable and wanted to adopt the siblings. Their mother didn't want them to be adopted by immediate family at all.

 

[Grey-St]

Does anyone know how LE would have (or could have) determined, on day 1, that there was no risk to the public? And how could they be so confident of that position that they would go on record saying it to the public? How would they know, at that early stage, that it wasn't, for example, a home invasion or a robbery gone wrong? This has always baffled me.

Exactly.

 

[Satchie]

Does anyone know how LE would have (or could have) determined, on day 1, that there was no risk to the public? And how could they be so confident of that position that they would go on record saying it to the public? How would they know, at that early stage, that it wasn't, for example, a home invasion or a robbery gone wrong? This has always baffled me.

I don't recall that they said there was no risk to the public. That's the kind of sweeping statement they wouldn't make, for the very reason you point out: it might be wrong. They said 1. there were no signs of a break in and 2. They had no suspects at that time.

From my amateur experience analyzing public police statements, especially in Canada, they only state with certaintly facts, which they can back up with scientific evidence. If they feel obliged to express a belief, they will state "it is our belief..."

The media are then left to draw their own conclusions, and the public often assume the police have jumped to conclusions, while it is actually reporters who have jumped to conclusions.

ETA: IMO the media and the public want immediate answers, while LE is more comfortable with the fact that nothing is known for certain until the investigation is complete.

Also ETA: then there is the 'police sources' info published by the media. No one knows who or how credible they are.

 

[dotr]

Apparently his sister and her husband were suitable and wanted to adopt the siblings. Their mother didn't want them to be adopted by immediate family at all.

Re post.
Rbbm.
https://torontolife.com/from-the-archives/barry-sherman-bitter-pill-from-the-archives/

Before she died, Beverley Winter left instructions that her children not be adopted by any relatives. Her brother, Wayne Rockcliffe, still wonders why she didn’t choose him and his wife. At that time they had no children. They were willing to move into the Winter home and send the boys to Upper Canada College. But Beverley, a convert to Judaism, wanted her sons to be raised as Jews. Rockcliffe thinks that his sister “just didn’t want us to have what was hers. What a shame that was!” Beverley’s rabbi found a home for the boys with Martin Barkin, a highly regarded urologist, and his wife, Carol, a schoolteacher.

By 1973, the year Sherman sold Empire, Kerry, then 12 years old, and his closest brother, 11-year-old Dana, were extremely un*happy. They found Barkin difficult and their adoptive mother cold. By age 15, Kerry had left home and moved into a rooming house. He continued to attend school, where he was arrested for selling hash and marijuana and sentenced to six months in the Mimico Correctional Centre. In what would become a recurring theme, a relative came to his rescue. Uncle Wayne used his connections to get Kerry accepted into Ottawa’s tony Ashbury College. He graduated and took honours English at Richmond College in London, England, with fees paid by the family trust.

 

[JayFriend]

Does anyone know how LE would have (or could have) determined, on day 1, that there was no risk to the public? And how could they be so confident of that position that they would go on record saying it to the public? How would they know, at that early stage, that it wasn't, for example, a home invasion or a robbery gone wrong? This has always baffled me.

Their initial theory was murder suicide. But even after they changed that to double murder, they must feel that Honey and Barry were specifically targeted.

 

[JDG]

Had no idea that Barry wrote a book besides his unfinished biography, fwiw.
https://www.thejc.com/news/obituaries/obituary-bernard-barry-sherman-1.451010

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Invention-...4G0_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1526081754&sr=1-1

Might not be Barry Sherman of Apotex. His full name is Bernard Charles Sherman.

 

[dotr]

Might not be Barry Sherman of Apotex. His full name is Bernard Charles Sherman.

Good catch, it does not seem to be a book that BS would write, but surprised the Jewish news would make that error.imo.

 

[JDG]

Good catch, it does not seem to be a book that BS would write, but surprised the Jewish news would make that error.imo.

Agree. its not the only mistake. no one proof reads anymore. lol

 

[Kerry Winter]

miele.m,

I don't think anyone here is minimizing the dreadful pain and agony suffered by the Winters' as young boys, when their parents died. It definitely leaves a permanent sense of insecurity in ones life, as well as many other emotions.

From what Kerry Winter has stated in public forums, media etc. I know he feels very betrayed by the Shermans and that must be almost unbearable. I can only hope that he can someday find some semblance of peace, along with his other family members.

Thank-you.

 

[Kerry Winter]

Who would the Winter orphans have sued if the executors had sold the pharma business to someone other than Barry Sherman?

With the business eventually facing insolvency after the executors were responsible for overseeing it, the business was put up for sale on the open market and another offer to purchase was received. The would-be buyers being completely unrelated, it would not have been possible for the executors to have obtained any such agreement to employ, several years down the road, certain family members of the original owner, nor tell them who their shareholders must be at which percentages, etc., had they sold the company to the other buyer instead of BS. That's just not how real life works.

That business would never have been sellable if those kind of stipulations had existed for any other party. BS made an offer which was higher than the other offer received, AND he agreed to certain things (none of which were even applicable during the time BS owned said company). There was nothing to say that BS was not ever allowed to sell that business, should it make sense for him to do so, as the business owner. The money received by the executors upon the sale of Winters' business was the fair market value of the business at the time, and *that* was the children's inheritance.

Jmo.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/rep...family-feud-comes-to-the-fore/article1069800/

You’re VERY wrong about a number of key facts. Had my parents lived, Barry would have been an older brother. My father raised Barry since he lost his father at 9. My father taught him the business and employed Barry during summer holidays. My father’s group of co’s was profitable, with over a million dollars in sales in 65. My father successfully sued the brand name drug companies and was the first generic co. to knock off Valium.
Barry and his partner “buried” the optionand royalty agreemt....pulled two fraudulent transactions, (never disclosed the option/royalty agreements), stopped visiting us and started the exact same company under the name Apotex.
The corner stone to my lawsuit against him, and now his estate is: did he have a fiduciary duty to us?
We’re in the court of appeal and this case could end up in the Supreme Court of Canada.
Please do your homework before you write nonsense.

 

[Kerry Winter]

Excellent analysis. Clear and to the point,

Wrong!!! Get your facts straight.

 

[Kerry Winter]

No forced entry. No suspects. Murder/suicide.

 

[human]

Wrong!!! Get your facts straight.

What are the facts?

 

[human]

No forced entry. No suspects. Murder/suicide.

What happened to whatever made the marks on the wrists? How did Barry strangle himself first and then kill himself again at the pool?

 

[Kerry Winter]

Does anyone know how LE would have (or could have) determined, on day 1, that there was no risk to the public? And how could they be so confident of that position that they would go on record saying it to the public? How would they know, at that early stage, that it wasn't, for example, a home invasion or a robbery gone wrong? This has always baffled me.

Only Honey died as the result of foul play. Gomes and Price always believed Barry committed suicide.
NOW.....if only Barry was in the house, who else could have done it.
The police KNOW that no windows or doors were opened after Honey and Barry came home. The opening of windows and doors were monitored on their elaborate alarm system.
In other words, Honey came home. A couple of hours later Barry. If thevintruders, (multiple murderers), came in with one of them....
Drum roll: how did they leave?!?!

 

[human]

Only Honey died as the result of foul play. Gomes and Price always believed Barry committed suicide.
NOW.....if only Barry was in the house, who else could have done it.
The police KNOW that no windows or doors were opened after Honey and Barry came home. The opening of windows and doors were monitored on their elaborate alarm system.
In other words, Honey came home. A couple of hours later Barry. If thevintruders, (multiple murderers), came in with one of them....
Drum roll: how did they leave?!?!

Do you have a link that explains their elaborate alarm system?

 

[miele.m]

I don't really think I said anything about the Winter children? This isn't their murder case? I too believe what happened to those siblings is awful, but I wasn't talking about them in this post. These wealthy adult children- their parents were murdered. Yeah, this must be pretty torturous for them in my opinion. This also isn't the "who has it worse" olympics. Awful things happened in both situations.

And for the record, you're basically implying that Kerry Winter could have done this, and it would have been warranted.

Grey-St
You actually made me smile and chuckle tonight (which I rather enjoyed) when you said I am basically implicating Kerry.
Kerry and I go way back (April 2018) and i’m his biggest fan on here. Lol

I admire Kerry for his candidness, rawness, authenticity, transparency and high visibility.
Kerry isn’t hiding out somewhere, he is speaking his truth and not through paid lawyers used to abuse the courts of law as his cousin did.

I admire Kerry because he has taken on a beast by suing for 20% of a company that he and his brothers are entitled to, and that were ousted out of by their duplicitous two faced cheating scamming first cousin. Kerry is doing things the legal way. He is holding people accountable.
He didn’t ‘whack’ anybody. I admire his restraint.
If this was done within another community that comes to mind , I guarantee you shysters like this wouldn’t get off so easy.

I’m really looking forward to finding out who the assassins could possibly be.
My time on here sleuthing, reading and responding to posts would only be worth it if there were actual real assassins.

<modsnip>

 

[ldlager]

Only Honey died as the result of foul play. Gomes and Price always believed Barry committed suicide.
NOW.....if only Barry was in the house, who else could have done it.
The police KNOW that no windows or doors were opened after Honey and Barry came home. The opening of windows and doors were monitored on their elaborate alarm system.
In other words, Honey came home. A couple of hours later Barry. If thevintruders, (multiple murderers), came in with one of them....
Drum roll: how did they leave?!?!

Wait for honey outside as she arrives
grab her as she enters the house- perhaps through the front door
close the front door behind her
Kill honey and hang her on the railing
Go out to the garage through the door in the basement. Close that door. Wait for Barry in the garage
kill Barry in the garage
open the door between the garage and the house and move/drag/carry Barry to the pool. Don&#8217;t close the door.
hang Barry by the pool
Immediately leave via the open door
close the door

You see, i can play the drums too.....

 

[dotr]

If what the sources suggest is true, why would the perp bother to move HS to the pool area? Was the video camera really turned off. if so, why go to an area with a camera?
speculation.
http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-mystery-shrouds-deaths-of-billionaire-couple
December 19, 2017

It is believed the camera in the pool area had been disconnected.

Sources say police believe they are dealing with a murder-suicide and that Mrs. Sherman’s body may have been moved from a secondary scene inside the home to the pool room.

rbbm.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Barry and Honey Sherman and their family are victims.

We are always very fortunate to have an insider join us and become a Verified Insider. We have a bit of a unique situation here with our VI also being related to Barry and Honey Sherman, and being very candid about their family history and feelings toward both the Shermans.

Regardless of Kerry's feelings, he is still related to the victims, and as with any and all VIs and family members, please be respectful in all your questions to them and comments about them.

At all times, please keep in mind our usual policy as it relates to how you communicate with our VI, and in your comments about the Shermans.

Excerpt from The Rules: Etiquette & Information

VICTIM FRIENDLY

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is relevant to the case.

The "victim friendly" rule extends to the family members of victims and suspects. Sleuthing family members, friends, and others who have not been designated as suspects is not allowed. Don't make random accusations, suggest their involvement, nor bash and attack them. Posting their personal information, including names, addresses, and background data -- even if it is public -- is not allowed. That does not mean, however, that statements made by family members and other third parties cannot come into discussion as the facts of the case are reported in the media.