Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

[MistyWaters]

My son had a type of “Nanny Cam” that worked on WiFi. His office was over an hour away and he could check into the nursery without any problems.

He did get rid of or turn off this app as other people, hackers, could also see into the nursery. This was in 2015 when news came out about this one type of nanny cam. I am not technically smart to give you the proper wording.

Yes I recall something about that too. If the factory installed security code wasn’t changed, some battery operated security cameras were hacked and streamed on a public website. I just noticed it appears it’s still happening.

Russian website streaming hundreds of cameras in Canada, experts warn your connected devices could be at risk

I neglected to mention some battery operated security cameras can also be connected to a 4G/3G LTE mobile network and therefore don’t require WIFI. Batteries can last as long as two years. I suppose for travellers these things work well in hotel rooms or maybe for students in dorms, if one has valuables to watch over via the app. Most are activated by motion sensors, is that different from nanny cams?

Security cameras are often an excellent means of identifying criminals in the act. It’s disturbing to consider the opposite, if the small portable type is used in facilitating crimes.

 

[JDG]

Yes I recall something about that too. If the factory installed security code wasn’t changed, some battery operated security cameras were hacked and streamed on a public website. I just noticed it appears it’s still happening.

Russian website streaming hundreds of cameras in Canada, experts warn your connected devices could be at risk

I neglected to mention some battery operated security cameras can also be connected to a 4G/3G LTE mobile network and therefore don’t require WIFI. Batteries can last as long as two years. I suppose for travellers these things work well in hotel rooms or maybe for students in dorms, if one has valuables to watch over via the app. Most are activated by motion sensors, is that different from nanny cams?

Security cameras are often an excellent means of identifying criminals in the act. It’s disturbing to consider the opposite, if the small portable type is used in facilitating crimes.

I'm sure the crooks have all the angles worked out on security cameras.
If they can use them, you can bet they do.
A family member used to work in the security department of a large company and let me tell you, its hard for them to stay one step ahead of the crooks.

I'm glad there are reasonably priced security systems available though.

 

[MistyWaters]

One way to know The whereabouts of people is through GPS tracking devices and Cell Phone Apps. My son has an app on my grandsons cell phone. He can even tell how fast the kid drives the car. There are some rather expensive apps you can install on a cell phone in less than 5 minutes.
I’d thinking it would be pretty boring to not have full access to the home and depend on a small device camera.

I’m not at all suggesting the Shermans relied on a small battery operated security camera to safeguard their home. It’s only my speculation that a device may have been planted in their home, say near the eating area, would enable someone intent on stalking them to listen to their private conversations and possibly learn their schedules, daily activities and future plans.

Whether the Shermans relied upon a home security system or if it was turned off, media reports vary. I think it’s a safe bet that they either did or didn’t.

 

[MistyWaters]

In my personal experience selling 2 of my homes in Seattle, Washington, there were no keys in a Realtor lockbox. The lockbox was activated by a computerized keycard that showed the Realtor name and persons who were entering the house the time they entered and the time they left. The keycard was then deactivated. I assumed all Realtors used these type of systems.

Just for clarification, was your door normally opened with a keycard or by a key? Because I’m confused how a keycard could open a standard door with a lock/deadbolt if the required key wasn’t contained inside the realtor’s lockbox? Maybe there’s two different types depending how access is gained?

 

[human]

Is your theory the perp/s merely picked Dec 13th as the night, somehow got access into the home and took it from there? If so, maybe that’s what happened. Considering nobody had reason to become alarmed over their absence anytime on Thursday, a day later, it (unfortunately) worked for them, perhaps better than they hoped.

No. I have read that people can even read your car opener things. I do not have one so what are they called?

Thieves sit and have a device that can read your device.There are those card readers for gas pumps and something for the ATM.

 

[Sanz]

Just for clarification, was your door normally opened with a keycard or by a key? Because I’m confused how a keycard could open a standard door with a lock/deadbolt if the required key wasn’t contained inside the realtor’s lockbox? Maybe there’s two different types depending how access is gained?

Thank you for asking this question. The doors were opened a key. This electronic box had a slot in it. The Realtor showing the home needed the magnetic card programmed by the Selling agents office before the box could be used. The card was deactivated within a period of time. I have never watched a Box be opened. But this box contains the data on who entered the time the door was opened and when they left. I can see how miscommunicating can really confuse the issue.

 

[human]

Since I am technologicaly impaired and I have no interest in being a thief, I don’t know how a lock box works, but here is how it is with a car.

Thieves Steal Mercedes-Benz By Hacking the Keyless Entry in 23 Seconds

 

[human]

Credit card skimmers

How to Spot and Avoid Credit Card Skimmers

 

[human]

Info from cell phones

How Cybercriminals Can Use Your Cell Phone Number to Steal Your Identity - NextAdvisor Blog

 

[MistyWaters]

Thank you for asking this question. The doors were opened a key. This electronic box had a slot in it. The Realtor showing the home needed the magnetic card programmed by the Selling agents office before the box could be used. The card was deactivated within a period of time. I have never watched a Box be opened. But this box contains the data on who entered the time the door was opened and when they left. I can see how miscommunicating can really confuse the issue.

Thanks very much for clarifying, it was I who misunderstood. For some reason I recall realtor lockboxes with codes also record each time they’re opened and the code also resets but I don’t know that as fact. Your example is far more secure though, as there’s greater control in activating the keycard, as opposed to a code being shared. In my province, I’ve only noticed coded lockboxes.

 

[dotr]

Police investigation into Sherman double murder focuses on realtor’s ‘lock box’
"A realtor’s “lock box,” which gave access to agents and their clients viewing Barry and Honey Sherman’s house, has expanded the pool of “persons of interest” in what is now officially a double murder investigation."

"In answering a reporter’s question, she confirmed that “we have that list” of anyone who gained entry to the Old Colony Road home in North Toronto, which was for sale, via the lock box."

"Lock boxes are often used by agents for periods when either the sellers are away or unavailable for showings, or when the agents themselves can’t be there for appointments. Keys to the home are left in the lock box, which is usually affixed to the door handle. Agents can then get the lock box code from the selling agent’s office, and take their clients through."

 

[MistyWaters]

Police investigation into Sherman double murder focuses on realtor’s ‘lock box’
"A realtor’s “lock box,” which gave access to agents and their clients viewing Barry and Honey Sherman’s house, has expanded the pool of “persons of interest” in what is now officially a double murder investigation."

"In answering a reporter’s question, she confirmed that “we have that list” of anyone who gained entry to the Old Colony Road home in North Toronto, which was for sale, via the lock box."

"Lock boxes are often used by agents for periods when either the sellers are away or unavailable for showings, or when the agents themselves can’t be there for appointments. Keys to the home are left in the lock box, which is usually affixed to the door handle. Agents can then get the lock box code from the selling agent’s office, and take their clients through."

A “significant” list too! Is the actual list what’s significant or does the number of people on the list make it significant. Police speak, no clear translation.

• Toronto police have a “significant” list of people who gained entry to the Sherman home using a lock box for real estate agents.

• What we've learned about the Sherman murders - CityNews Toronto

 

[deugirtni]

Thank you for asking this question. The doors were opened a key. This electronic box had a slot in it. The Realtor showing the home needed the magnetic card programmed by the Selling agents office before the box could be used. The card was deactivated within a period of time. I have never watched a Box be opened. But this box contains the data on who entered the time the door was opened and when they left. I can see how miscommunicating can really confuse the issue.

I misunderstood what you were saying then... so the purpose of the card is merely to record who came and went and times and etc., as well as to gain access to the box which contains the key? The old kind of lock-boxes used to have a code on them to press.. which would presumably have been simple enough to get through, but with the card readers, would there be any risk of anyone being able to get into the key-box without the card? ie could it be rigged to open by an 'unwanted'? And if so, would it be known that it had been done?

 

[Sanz]

I misunderstood what you were saying then... so the purpose of the card is merely to record who came and went and times and etc., as well as to gain access to the box which contains the key? The old kind of lock-boxes used to have a code on them to press.. which would presumably have been simple enough to get through, but with the card readers, would there be any risk of anyone being able to get into the key-box without the card? ie could it be rigged to open by an 'unwanted'? And if so, would it be known that it had been done?

The listing agent’s office controls who goes into “my” residence and when they leave. The card is then deactivated. I am assuming it works similar to a hotel room key. Any agent who planned to have a showing would have to get a key card from the listing agents office prior to arrival or a person from the listing agents office would meet them at the residence with a keycard. I remember a time there was a problem with the keycard not opening the lockbox the showing agent had to call the listing agent who was able to over ride the keycard. If Amy type of repair person needed to gain entry the listing agent or myself was present.

 

[human]

The listing agent’s office controls who goes into “my” residence and when they leave. The card is then deactivated. I am assuming it works similar to a hotel room key. Any agent who planned to have a showing would have to get a key card from the listing agents office prior to arrival or a person from the listing agents office would meet them at the residence with a keycard. I remember a time there was a problem with the keycard not opening the lockbox the showing agent had to call the listing agent who was able to over ride the keycard. If Amy type of repair person needed to gain entry the listing agent or myself was present.

That is not reassuring. My hubby was working with an FBI agent about a work issue about 10 years ago. My husband had gone to the airport in another city to pick up my son. He stayed in a low cost motel. He threw the key card in the basket on the desk.

About a month later the bank called and asked if our credit card was missing. Nope.

The FBI agent said at that time all of our info was on the key card. Thieves had made a new card using our info.

Maybe hotel key cards are different now, but the FBI guy said he always cuts his up and throws it away.

 

[deugirtni]

A “significant” list too! Is the actual list what’s significant or does the number of people on the list make it significant. Police speak, no clear translation.

• Toronto police have a “significant” list of people who gained entry to the Sherman home using a lock box for real estate agents.

• What we've learned about the Sherman murders - CityNews Toronto

I think it would have to be significant meaning lengthy, as opposed to 'whom'. Only because they can't really say which people would BE significant at the time when it was said. I am surprised though, because who would've thought there would be a lineup of people viewing 7 million dollar homes? Are there really that many?? In that case, I can tell you that I sure chose the wrong career!

 

[Sanz]

I think it would have to be significant meaning lengthy, as opposed to 'whom'. Only because they can't really say which people would BE significant at the time when it was said. I am surprised though, because who would've thought there would be a lineup of people viewing 7 million dollar homes? Are there really that many?? In that case, I can tell you that I sure chose the wrong career!

Since there has been a great deal of unclarity through the media, Could using the word “significant” have another particular meaning; indicative of something?
Perhaps suggesting a meaning or message that is not explicitly stated as,
“The list is significant to this case”. Or, “This list will be significant in helping narrow down people who entered the home”.

 

[dotr]

Never seen or heard of this show before now, but might check it out to see if the Sherman home is mentioned..
FWIW
Top Million Dollar Agent (TV Series 2015– ) - IMDb
"Top Million Dollar Agent is a lifestyle real estate show based on the lives and careers of some of Toronto's top realtors. In each episode, the host has a client who is interested in buying a home and takes them to four different multi-million dollar properties. Only the finest luxury homes, condos, and townhouses are showcased on TMDA. Additional segments feature guest agents, lawyers, developers, and mortgage brokers who provide information on real estate markets and trends while educating audiences on how to purchase, sell, and stage real estate. This show is geared towards everyone from first time buyers to experienced investors and gives viewers a glimpse into the personal lives and careers of some of Toronto's top real estate professionals."

 

[deugirtni]

Since there has been a great deal of unclarity through the media, Could using the word “significant” have another particular meaning; indicative of something?
Perhaps suggesting a meaning or message that is not explicitly stated as,
“The list is significant to this case”. Or, “This list will be significant in helping narrow down people who entered the home”.

It seems it has been reported (at least) two ways, and when put in context, at least in the first example, it seems it is regarding quantity/number of people. Is this from Gomes' press conference, and I wonder what she actually said?:
"Police have compiled witness statements so far from 127 people and have a "significant list" of people still to talk to – including prospective buyers who visited the home with realtors in the weeks before the deaths."
Deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman ruled a 'targeted' double homicide
and

• "Police have interviewed 127 individuals so far.

• Toronto police have a “significant” list of people who gained entry to the Sherman home using a lock box for real estate agents"

What we've learned about the Sherman murders - CityNews Toronto

 

[MistyWaters]

It seems it has been reported (at least) two ways, and when put in context, at least in the first example, it seems it is regarding quantity/number of people. Is this from Gomes' press conference, and I wonder what she actually said?:
"Police have compiled witness statements so far from 127 people and have a "significant list" of people still to talk to – including prospective buyers who visited the home with realtors in the weeks before the deaths."
Deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman ruled a 'targeted' double homicide
and

• "Police have interviewed 127 individuals so far.

• Toronto police have a “significant” list of people who gained entry to the Sherman home using a lock box for real estate agents"

What we've learned about the Sherman murders - CityNews Toronto

From the same January press conference......yes “anybody who had access” would also include prospective buyers who were shown the home by realtors.

“Important to us” would also be “significant”. So I don’t think ”significant” necessarily refers to sheer volume. It seems TPS had reason to believe the perp/s might’ve had access to the home in some way, prior to the murders.

“......Anybody who had access to that home in the last weeks and months leading up to that weekend, those days — important to us,” Gomes said.....”
Police investigation into Sherman double murder focuses on realtor’s ‘lock box’