Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #9

[MistyWaters]

Indeed. It is kind of grotesque to think that both the cleaner and the 'gardener?' were IN the home with the bodies, yet completely unaware of them. If anyone had been following the activities of the household, that person may have hoped one of those people would be the first to find the bodies.

Yes, that could very well be if they expected the bodies to go discovered until two days later, on the Friday.

I’m wondering about a typical Thursday routine. It’s a very gruesome though but how often might’ve Honey’s children stopped by or how often did she babysat her grandchildren? Perhaps because she had planned to leave for Florida the following Monday and the house was recently listed, the routine had changed.

 

[Satchie]

I am going to try to attach the floorplan for the basement level of the Sherman residence.. along with a photo of the pool area.. in the article, it says they saw the freakshow from through the glass, metres away, and did not enter.. then notice where the slanted handrail is next to presumably, the pool stairs.. and imagine, from previous descriptions, where the bodies were strung from.. and it is not difficult to imagine that these people could have mistaken the bodies being on the pool steps?

"They stopped outside the pool and looked inside.

"We could see through the large glass door," said the agent. Several metres away, they saw something unusual.

The bodies "were on the steps leading to the pool," he told CBC News.

"What's with these rich people ... who does this?" he recalled thinking. He says neither he nor his clients decided to enter the pool area to take a closer look."
Family of Barry and Honey Sherman offers reward of up to $10M for information about killings | CBC News

(floorplan was previously fetched from: www.houssmax.ca; pool photo: Sources reveal details of ‘suspicious’ deaths of Apotex founder Barry Sherman and wife Honey)

So in that photo you linked, the group arrived at the opposite end of the pool from where the photo was taken. It seems it would be hard, from the brief glimpse they had before leaving in horror, they probably wouldn't have been able to tell exact details, such as how the feet were placed. The feet were probably out of sight, if the bodies had their backs to the pool and therefore the group.

ETA just wanted to add, for clarity, the buyers and their realtor ran away. The Sherman's realtor was also part of the group, and didn't run away. We don't know if she went in.

 

[deugirtni]

I can’t seem to open the PDF file for some reason.

When you click on the PDF, it won't 'open', it automatically downloads it onto your computer.. where you can *then* open it from wherever your downloads go to..... sorry if that is too basic info for you, but wanted to make sure you knew it wouldn't just automatically open on its own.

 

[deugirtni]

Right


So in that photo you linked, the group arrived at the opposite end of the pool from where the photo was taken. It seems it would be hard, from the brief glimpse they had before leaving in horror, they probably wouldn't have been able to tell exact details, such as how the feet were placed. The feet were probably out of sight, if the bodies had their backs to the pool and therefore the group.

ETA just wanted to add, for clarity, the buyers and their realtor ran away. The Sherman's realtor was also part of the group, and didn't run away. We don't know if she went in.

Exactly... and if you notice the handrail on the angle.. from their distance and through the glass doors, it may have appeared they were hanging onto the steps?

 

[MistyWaters]

I am now going to try to post the entire PDF, which is all 3 levels of the home... from same link as above. Let me know if that works?

As for the pool and being beside a front door... you may be thinking of photos of the OUTdoor pool? There are photos of both pools if you google and go to 'images'.

You could be right about the outdoor pool. I’ll do some searching because if it was the main foyer/front door area, it can’t have been a view to an outdoor pool unless the outdoor pool was in the front yard, which it wasn’t.

 

[deugirtni]

In the basement floorplan, it shows the narrow hallway referred to in the agent's description, and then shows the (what I imagine would be) glass panels into the pool area.. with the hot tub way at the other end.. which is also shown in the photograph.

ETA: to add that the hot tub is on the same far end as where the bodies were strung from.

 

[deugirtni]

You could be right about the outdoor pool. I’ll do some searching because if it was the main foyer/front door area, it can’t have been a view to an outdoor pool unless the outdoor pool was in the front yard, which it wasn’t.

In the press conference, I believe I heard Greenspan say there were NINE points of entry (doors) into the home.... so what may have looked like a front door, may have been a different door?

Also, the indoor pool was on the lower level, accessible via the garage door... so would that even be visible at the front door?

 

[MistyWaters]

When you click on the PDF, it won't 'open', it automatically downloads it onto your computer.. where you can *then* open it from wherever your downloads go to..... sorry if that is too basic info for you, but wanted to make sure you knew it wouldn't just automatically open on its own.

Okay thanks! I’m using an iPad at the moment so that explains why it won’t open, nor am I able to download it.

 

[MistyWaters]

In the press conference, I believe I heard Greenspan say there were NINE points of entry (doors) into the home.... so what may have looked like a front door, may have been a different door?

Might be my memory but iirc it was described in the listing as the front foyer with a view to the pool area. Prior to reading the description I hadn’t noticed the glass door because of all the other doors and windows.

 

[JDG]

I followed this case early on, and we knew that Honey died several hours before Barry, and this was one of the facts that led police to believe that Barry was responsible for the murder/suicide. It was also revealed early on that they were hanging from the pool railing with belts.

I understand that the children do not want the stigma of mental illness such as suicide and murder in the family, but there doesn't seem to be anything to support double murder other than the family's ability to finance a double murder theory.

Can you please link the TIMES OF DEATH that YOU KNEW for both Honey and Barry, and 'FACTS' that lead police to believe Barry was responsible for the murder/suicide??

Please make sure they are from MSM as per the TOS of WS.

The ONLY thing released to date by TPS is the COD as far as I am aware.

Thanks Otto. Yes, I remember reading your posts from this case.

 

[JDG]

The family is doing a great job of pretending that the real killer is still on the loose. Everyone knows that the Sherman family has a long history of doing everything possible to avoid paying debt. Even if a lot of crazies come forward and waste police time and resources chasing false leads, the family is never going to give anyone 10 million dollars for information about the two deaths.

Please link from MSM where the Shermans have 'a long history of doing everything possible to avoid paying debt'?

I must have also missed that article. Thank you.

 

[MistyWaters]

This is the photo I’m thinking of. Somewhere in a detailed description I think I recall the double glass door that’s just to the left of the main front door is the entrance to the pool area. It does appear to be a pool behind the glass. Does that align with the floor plan?

Source:
Building of Sherman’s North York dream home was a ‘disaster’ that led to litigation

 

[deugirtni]

The alleged killers were so thorough there's no evidence that they exist. The hitman or the non-hitman spent hours staging the bodies as though they were relaxing in front of the pool without leaving so much as a hair or skin cell on the bodies.

After listening to the scathing remarks made at the press conference in regard to the police investigation, I think we would have to wonder if police even bothered to look for or collect or analyze any potential hair/skin cells on the bodies or surrounding areas. In any event, we wouldn't be privy to whether or not there was foreign DNA discovered anywhere - (police aren't reporting on their findings)... and it seems like even if there was, it wasn't cross-checked against those *known* to have been in the home right around the time of the murders - so a whole lotta good it is?

 

[andreww]

Otto, we do not KNOW any of this as evidence. It's all hearsay and rumour.

The only evidence we have from TPS is cause of death.

It's very important to remember that we really 'know' nothing much about this case. Lots of rumours and hearsay though.

The cause of death is not evidence, it’s opinion.

 

[deugirtni]

This is the photo I’m thinking of. Somewhere in a detailed description I think I recall the double glass door that’s just to the left of the main front door is the entrance to the pool area. It does appear to be a pool behind the glass. Does that align with the floor plan?

View attachment 153182

Source:
Building of Sherman’s North York dream home was a ‘disaster’ that led to litigation

The floorplan only shows the plan of the home itself, not a map of the property... considering that the view you show is on the main floor, while the indoor pool is on the lower level, it doesn't seem like it would be viewable from the windows of the main floor? The garage looks like it goes down a hill to get into the lower level of the home, which is on the same level as the indoor pool. I'm thinking what you are talking about must be a photo of the outdoor pool? The indoor pool walls seem to be glass blocks, which wouldn't necessarily show what's inside?



Photo of pool: Canadian police probe 'suspicious' death of billionaire | Daily Mail Online

Photo of interior: Real estate listing

 

[MistyWaters]

After listening to the scathing remarks made at the press conference in regard to the police investigation, I think we would have to wonder if police even bothered to look for or collect or analyze any potential hair/skin cells on the bodies or surrounding areas. In any event, we wouldn't be privy to whether or not there was foreign DNA discovered anywhere - (police aren't reporting on their findings)... and it seems like even if there was, it wasn't cross-checked against those *known* to have been in the home right around the time of the murders - so a whole lotta good it is?

According to this published yesterday, the real estate agent who was in the home on Dec 15th hasn’t yet been asked to provide fingerprints in the suspect elimination process. The reason simply can’t be there were no fingerprints found anywhere in the house as the housekeeper apparently hadn’t went near the pool room.

“....The real estate agent confirmed that it was "at least a week or two" after police first started investigating the homicides before they reached out to him and his clients.

The agent says he was interviewed at a local police division and agreed to provide investigators with the shoes he was wearing when he was inside the Sherman home.

CBC News asked Toronto police why investigators seemingly waited for up to two weeks before interviewing witnesses who were inside the mansion around the time the bodies were discovered.

Toronto police spokesperson Meaghan Gray said the service cannot discuss details, because the investigation is ongoing.

“The agent said police contacted him again recently to come in for fingerprinting, but hasn't been told when or where that will happen.”...”
Family of Barry and Honey Sherman offers reward of up to $10M for information about killings | CBC News

 

[andreww]

Police always get false confessions, and now likely plenty of false snitches, they have to keep this stuff secret to quickly weed out the liars.

Speaking of snitches, I was thinking about how a perp or perps will react to this reward: it's not so much whether they'll be tempted, since $10 million's not much use in jail, but the possible paranoia that the others might snitch. One might decide that dead men tell no tales. It's also a pretty strong guarantee that if they haven't yet shared what they've done, they won't now.

Greenspan is following John Ramsey’s blueprint.

 

[MistyWaters]

The floorplan only shows the plan of the home itself, not a map of the property... considering that the view you show is on the main floor, while the indoor pool is on the lower level, it doesn't seem like it would be viewable from the windows of the main floor? The garage looks like it goes down a hill to get into the lower level of the home, which is on the same level as the indoor pool. I'm thinking what you are talking about must be a photo of the outdoor pool? The indoor pool walls seem to be glass blocks, which wouldn't necessarily show what's inside?

View attachment 153184 View attachment 153185

Yeah, it could be the outdoor pool.

From that link as well -

“The lower floor is anchored by a massive garage, bordered by the indoor pool, a sauna, and changing room. Neighbouring rooms include a sitting room, recreation room and hobby room, and a nanny's room with an ensuite kitchen and bathroom.”
Building of Sherman’s North York dream home was a ‘disaster’ that led to litigation

 

[MistyWaters]

Greenspan is following John Ramsey’s blueprint.

He’s a high profile criminal defence lawyer. I don’t think he needs to follow anyone’s blueprint.

 

[andreww]

He’s a high profile criminal defence lawyer. I don’t think he needs to follow anyone’s blueprint.

Your opinion. He’s a media manipulator in my opinion.