Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #9

[JDG]

Did I hear correctly -- a maid let the realtor & his clients in???

Or the realtor used the key from the lock box and let themselves in.......

 

[MistyWaters]

Did I hear correctly -- a maid let the realtor & his clients in???

Yes that’s what I heard as well. The realtor and his clients arrived before the Sherman realtor got there. I’d guess either the house cleaner or plant watering person’s car was parked out front. Maybe he rang the doorbell since someone appeared to be present in the home, thinking the other realtor had already arrived and was inside? In not knowing how long in advance the viewing was prearranged, we also don’t know whether or not the household staff had been informed of the viewing.

 

[MistyWaters]

It’s no wonder “the relative” asked not to be identified because their information was incorrect. There was no open house. Early on, there were probably at least three or more threads of discussion here wasted over that piece of misinformation.

Dec 15, 2017
“The Shermans had just put their house on Old Colony Road, in a posh North York neighbourhood, up for sale for $6.9-million. A relative, who asked not to be identified, said a real estate agent, preparing for an open house, had discovered the two bodies in the large home's basement Friday morning.”
Billionaire Apotex founder Barry Sherman and wife found dead in Toronto home

 

[casesensitive]

Not sure what to make of today's Greenspan speech , mostly we hear how distressful this continues to be for the family and really nothing about any new leads or evidence.

sbm

Greenspan stated at the beginning of the press conference, and reiterated it later, that there would be no discussion of anything that could compromise the investigation. He did not "mostly" talk about how distressful this continues to be for the family for an hour.

You will find the full press conference link, supplied by JayFriend (thanks Jay) in post #146.

 

[SeesSeas]

Did I hear correctly -- a maid let the realtor & his clients in???

a person cleaning the home let them in . . .
Family of Barry and Honey Sherman offers reward of up to $10M for information about killings | CBC News
On that cool winter day last December, the agent recalled arriving at the Sherman home on Old Colony Road — an affluent neighbourhood in north Toronto — with his clients, before their scheduled viewing appointment.
[...]
The agent said a person cleaning the home let them in and allowed them to wait inside. A short time later, an agent representing the Shermans arrived.

 

[MistyWaters]

Wow, Warmington is worth reading. He’s really lashing out at LE for condoning and even furthering the m/s theory on one hand, denying it on the other. Then he goes on to write about the added grief this has caused the family -

“....Meanwhile the Sherman children, and their close family and friends, had to bury the philanthropic couple under the pall of this embarrassing darkness while having to face Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Mayor John Tory, Premier Kathleen Wynne and many other prominent Canadians who came to the funeral.

It made an already excruciating reality even more devastating — as witnessed by the anguish of eldest son Jonathon Sherman calling out police by saying “our parents never left anyone behind, they were taken from us.”

Everybody now agrees it was a double murder. But by the time police had their mind changed the trail had become a pretty cold......”

And more —

“..........If we are honest, by announcing the family’s $10-million reward to “light a fire” under the police on this probe, Greenspan also highlighted how different it could have been had police not taken the domestic violence path.

“Barry Sherman’s legs were outstretched with one crossed over the other in a passive manner, wearing his undisturbed eyeglasses and his jacket pulled slightly behind his back which would have prevented use of his arms,” said Greenspan.

He called this a “staged” scene that “should not have led to the premature and wrong-minded conclusion announced that first night” by police.

If were are honest, this has been a mess of an investigation that now needs all sides to throw out the rulebook and work together.

Perhaps $10-million will help warm up that trail.”
WARMINGTON: $10 million questions in unsolved slayings of billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman

 

[tarabull]

Snipped from Warmington article...
...I quoted senior police sources saying “at this stage it appears there was no forced entry and no evidence of anybody else in the house,” and “we are not searching for any suspects.”

--------------

What about the person cleaning the house that let the realtor & his clients in??? (before the Sherman's realtor arrived)

 

[MistyWaters]

It took TPS ten months just to clarify this?

BBM

“In his press conference Friday, Chief Saunders dismissed the allegation that his detectives reached any premature conclusions.

“The investigation was done well and it continues to be done well," he said. "But I do want to say that it’s not over yet.”

Asked specifically about his officer’s statement outside the home on Dec. 15 that there were no signs of forced entry or suspects, he said the officer’s goal was to ease the fears of neighbours in the affluent area, after a previous rash of break-and-enters.”
Family of Barry, Honey Sherman announce $10-million reward for information, criticize Toronto Police

Finger pointing, Blatchford writes that Saunders blamed the media -
“He defended the TPS investigators and their investigation, denied his officers had ever reached a premature conclusion, pointing out that all the force had ever said was that police weren’t looking for suspects and that there had been no sign of forced entry at the house, and that “people (the media) took the ball and ran” with it.”
Christie Blatchford: It’s a safe bet Sherman family lawyer has ‘lit the fire’ under Toronto police



Saunders response pertained to an earlier criticism specifically mentioned by Greenspan during his press conference:

“....Police initially said there was no sign of forced entry and they weren’t looking for suspects.

“That misguided, unfounded conclusion left the wrong impression that this was a self-inflicted crime, either a suicide or murder-suicide,” said Greenspan.

“That comment…conveyed a false sense of security to the public and devastation to the Sherman family,” he added....”
Family of Barry and Honey Sherman offers $10M reward to help catch slain couple’s killer

 

[JDG]

perhaps they meant 'other than those people over there'.

 

[Satchie]

It took TPS ten months just to clarify this?

BBM

“In his press conference Friday, Chief Saunders dismissed the allegation that his detectives reached any premature conclusions.

“The investigation was done well and it continues to be done well," he said. "But I do want to say that it’s not over yet.”

Asked specifically about his officer’s statement outside the home on Dec. 15 that there were no signs of forced entry or suspects, he said the officer’s goal was to ease the fears of neighbours in the affluent area, after a previous rash of break-and-enters.”
Family of Barry, Honey Sherman announce $10-million reward for information, criticize Toronto Police



Saunders response also pertained to a criticism specifically mentioned by Greenspan during his press conference:

“....Police initially said there was no sign of forced entry and they weren’t looking for suspects.

“That misguided, unfounded conclusion left the wrong impression that this was a self-inflicted crime, either a suicide or murder-suicide,” said Greenspan.

“That comment…conveyed a false sense of security to the public and devastation to the Sherman family,” he added....”
Family of Barry and Honey Sherman offers $10M reward to help catch slain couple’s killer

Actually, I think it's extremely unusual for LE in Canada to ever clarify a previous statement, simply because it's been taken out of context by the media. I can't think of another case where this has happened, although it may be common in the US where DA's and Sheriffs are elected and are trying to influence public opinion.

ETA I bet the TV stations have the footage still. Let them show us the complete, unedited interview with that constable, so people can decide for themselves instead of being told what to think by the media.

 

[JDG]

I got the distinct impression that our Police Chief is trying to cover his backside.
He is going to need a very large pair of panties for that to happen.....huge mistake to blame the media.

As Satchie says, pull up the videos.

 

[casesensitive]

Snipped from Warmington article...
...I quoted senior police sources saying “at this stage it appears there was no forced entry and no evidence of anybody else in the house,” and “we are not searching for any suspects.”

--------------

What about the person cleaning the house that let the realtor & his clients in??? (before the Sherman's realtor arrived)

First of all, I have never read (from Warmington or any other news outlet) that a police source said that there was "no evidence of anybody else in the house". But I assume that he is referring to when the Sherman's were killed, not when their bodies were discovered.

 

[Satchie]

Not at all. Where they erred was in their original presumption it was a murder/suicide and failed to properly secure the scene and gather all possible evidence. By the time they changed their mind and acknowledged it wa a double murder, it was too late. It doesn't matter if the victims were a couple of homeless drug addicts or billionaires. If it were the former, it would be case closed, but in the latter case, the family affected won't let it rest and have the financial resources to keep the investigation going. I this case, only the rich have a hope of seeing justice. It's sad but true.

I don't believe that the shenanigans of Joe Warmington reflected the reality of the police investigation. That's like looking at a funhouse mirror and assuming it reflects reality. He serves the same purpose, to entertain his audience.

 

[tarabull]

Joe Warmington on Twitter

 

[tarabull]

First of all, I have never read (from Warmington or any other news outlet) that a police source said that there was "no evidence of anybody else in the house". But I assume that he is referring to when the Sherman's were killed, not when their bodies were discovered.

:SMH: (ETA: regardless)

 

[casesensitive]

Actually, I think it's extremely unusual for LE in Canada to ever clarify a previous statement, simply because it's been taken out of context by the media. I can't think of another case where this has happened, although it may be common in the US where DA's and Sheriffs are elected and are trying to influence public opinion.

ETA I bet the TV stations have the footage still. Let them show us the complete, unedited interview with that constable, so people can decide for themselves instead of being told what to think by the media.

Satchie--the media didn't twist the cop's words. Here is the video of TPS Brandon Price from the crime scene the day the bodies were found.

Toronto police say public safety not at risk after 2 bodies found in North York home | Watch News Videos Online

 

[MistyWaters]

Actually, I think it's extremely unusual for LE in Canada to ever clarify a previous statement, simply because it's been taken out of context by the media. I can't think of another case where this has happened, although it may be common in the US where DA's and Sheriffs are elected and are trying to influence public opinion.

ETA I bet the TV stations have the footage still. Let them show us the complete, unedited interview with that constable, so people can decide for themselves instead of being told what to think by the media.

What footage are you referring to? That police said they were looking for no suspects and no forced entry was observed? Is so, it’s probably still attached to early news reports because it was at one time. The Police Chief is not denying it was said. Ten months later he’s clarifying why it was said.

And yes, I know it’s the Canadian way for police to not clarify a statement if it’s misunderstood. But is that acceptable, considering it’s Canadians who foot the bill for policing whether we elect them or not?

It comes across as total arrogance on the part of police, when they are aware their statements are misconstrued and do nothing. Public relations, including respect and confidence in a police force is the reason they should care.

 

[casesensitive]

:SMH: (ETA: regardless)

Regardless of what? Obviously everyone knows that there were people in the house when the bodies were discovered. Sorry, I am missing your point.

 

[Satchie]

First of all, I have never read (from Warmington or any other news outlet) that a police source said that there was "no evidence of anybody else in the house". But I assume that he is referring to when the Sherman's were killed, not when their bodies were discovered.

I agree. I went back to the 1st thread and followed one of the links:

"Police said later Friday evening that they are not currently seeking any suspects but are keeping an open mind on all possibilities.

“We did not observe any signs of forced entry into the building and so at this point indications are that we have no outstanding suspect to be going after,”‘ Det. Brandon Price told reporters.

“We will be getting a lot more answers tomorrow (Saturday) following the post-mortem examinations.”

2 found dead in Toronto home of Apotex chairman Barry Sherman

The detective uses a lot of qualifiers like an 'open mind' and 'at this point' which get stripped out by reporters, including websleuths reporters.

 

[tarabull]

Regardless of what? Obviously everyone knows that there were people in the house when the bodies were discovered. Sorry, I am missing your point.

...my point is merely regardless of whether LE meant there was no evidence of anyone else in the house when they were killed OR when they were found, neither is true.

Please disregard my post, I am sorry also (ETA: & frustrated)