Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #9

[human]

Cut

 

[MistyWaters]

If anyone’s interested in some heavy reading, this is a link to a lengthy report titled “A Typology of Staged Crime Scenes”. It discusses all different types of staging including homicide/suicide and various investigative red flags of staged scenes.

One point I’m reminded of is the difficulty in staging a homicide as a suicide, one of the reasons it’s detectable is because the perp lacks knowledge in how a similar suicide would appear had it legitimately occurred.

https://pure.bond.edu.au/ws/portalfiles/portal/18275117/The_Defects_of_the_Situation.pdf

 

[human]

Doesn’t sound peaceful to me.

What Does It Feel Like To Be Strangled To Death?

 

[MistyWaters]

Put it this way, Kerry Winter has never been in that house. If one spec of his DNA had shown up at the scene it would be enough to have him arrested. That obviously hasn't happened. And I seriously doubt that even the dumbest criminal would go on national TV and say that he fantasized about killing the victim.

Something that has become quite clear to me after years on this forum is that there is a certain percentage of people that will try to attach the crime to any given fact. For instance, if it was said that Barry had stopped at Macdonalds on the way home, a certain number of people would be adamant that the killer either worked at that Macdonalds or was there and followed him home. It just doesn't work that way 99% of the time. Kerry Winter is just a piece of Barry Sherman's life. He is an obvious suspect due to the lawsuit, but if there was anything to it he'd be in jail by now.

Why would even the dumbest criminal tell a story on TV, agree to take a lie detector test and then admit they fabricated or embellished the story? Only reason I can think of is to prove a tendency to lie.

Barry Sherman's cousin fails lie detector test over allegation of plot to kill Honey Sherman | CBC News

 

[andreww]

You are not in a position to vouch for KW never having been in that house. You don't know that he would have left his DNA at the scene, I'm sure any killer and especially an obvious suspect would take great care to not do so by wearing gloves and head coverings etc.

If you go in a house your DNA is there. Specifically touch DNA. But even one hair, the slightest bit of spit when talking or a discarded piece of dried skin.

And Kerry has stated several times that he's never been in that house.

 

[JDG]

You have obviously read nothing about this type of asphyxiation. From what I have read it is actually very peaceful. The weight on the neck actually causes lack of blood flow to the brain, causing the person to lose consciousness long before they run out of air.

Andreww, do you have a source for this information please?

I've seen people struggling to breathe and its not a pretty sight.

 

[andreww]

Doesn’t sound peaceful to me.

What Does It Feel Like To Be Strangled To Death?

Nice try, there is a difference between strangulation and asphyxiation.

Let me contribute a first-hand experience of suspension hanging. Although it was hardly comfortable, I lost consciousness within seconds. I have a slapdash dorm room set-up to thank for my survival; had I gotten all the details right, it would have been a relatively painless death. I mention it because gentle, lean-in forms of hanging are more lethal than you might expect, and I have occasionally wondered how many apparent suicides by hanging are more or less accidental... "experiments" by distraught individuals who are merely crying for help or seeking comfort in parasuicidal behavior. It's a bit like Tylenol overdose -- easy to kill yourself, if you're that careless, without quite meaning to -- but with no medical recourse and no chance to explain yourself after the act.

Common knowledge has it that suspension hanging is a slow, agonizing process of asphyxiation, which by all accounts is true of executions performed with a rope. However, it would appear that suicides tend to pad their ropes and belts -- because a thin rope of any kind digs into the neck and hurts about as much as you might imagine -- and presumably, the padding more effectively cuts off the blood supply to your brain. I am not alone in this; see [1], in which a completed suicide took only 13 seconds to black out. That's a few seconds longer than I took, insofar as my memory is a reliable record of the time taken, and FWIW, I was much more generous with the padding. Why make it hurt? Once your weight settles around your neck, there is a tremendous pressure and a rushing sensation in the head just before the world goes dark and swimmy. I had no thought of trying to stand up in order to save myself, and this was purely due to confusion and lack of time.

What the completed suicide experiences next is a question for a theologian. What I experienced next was the gradual awareness that I was lying on my back in the middle of the smooth hardwood floor, looking up at the ceiling. A daydream was fading away, and I realized that although I thought I had been chewing on something which I tasted vividly, there was nothing in my mouth. Then I noticed that there was blood all over my hand, and I found that it was from a small gash on my face. I sat up and tried to recall what had happened, but I could only reconstruct it. In any case, I had literally gotten off the hook, and although this didn't come with a bouquet and a rainbow, I was grateful that I had been spared the shame of an actual death by hanging.

The experience wasn't very painful, but it could have been very ugly.

[1] Sauvageau, A., & Racette, S. (2007). Agonal sequences in a filmed suicidal hanging: Analysis of respiratory and movement responses to asphyxia by hanging. Journal of Forensic Sciences, 52(4), 957-959

https://www.quora.com/Is-death-by-hanging-painful

 

[Lexiintoronto]

You think KW had something to do with this?

Do you think he had nothing to do with this?

Put it this way, Kerry Winter has never been in that house. If one spec of his DNA had shown up at the scene it would be enough to have him arrested. That obviously hasn't happened. And I seriously doubt that even the dumbest criminal would go on national TV and say that he fantasized about killing the victim.

Something that has become quite clear to me after years on this forum is that there is a certain percentage of people that will try to attach the crime to any given fact. For instance, if it was said that Barry had stopped at Macdonalds on the way home, a certain number of people would be adamant that the killer either worked at that Macdonalds or was there and followed him home. It just doesn't work that way 99% of the time. Kerry Winter is just a piece of Barry Sherman's life. He is an obvious suspect due to the lawsuit, but if there was anything to it he'd be in jail by now.

KW’s brother Dana allegedly hired someone to kill a person. KW and Dana were close, both had serious drug problems. Dana was also a drug dealer.

KW said he previously arranged a hit on HS that was called off.

Speculation: Is it a stretch that he might have arranged another hit? That might be the reason for his m/s campaign blitz?

 

[JDG]

Put it this way, Kerry Winter has never been in that house. If one spec of his DNA had shown up at the scene it would be enough to have him arrested. That obviously hasn't happened. And I seriously doubt that even the dumbest criminal would go on national TV and say that he fantasized about killing the victim.

Something that has become quite clear to me after years on this forum is that there is a certain percentage of people that will try to attach the crime to any given fact. For instance, if it was said that Barry had stopped at Macdonalds on the way home, a certain number of people would be adamant that the killer either worked at that Macdonalds or was there and followed him home. It just doesn't work that way 99% of the time. Kerry Winter is just a piece of Barry Sherman's life. He is an obvious suspect due to the lawsuit, but if there was anything to it he'd be in jail by now.

When Bruce McArthur was considered as a suspect, he wasn't just jailed.
The police had him under surveillance for quite some time. They only jumped in when another man went into his apartment and they felt he was at risk.

A small amount of DNA could possibly be explained, so no rush if a suspect is not considered a public risk.

When Holly Jones was killed, they asked all men in the 'hood for DNA and only one said no. TPS surveilled him and guess what?? He was the killer but they needed to prove it and have enough to go to trial.

They often leave a killer on the streets (I am NOT saying that KW is a killer nor had anything to do with the Sherman murders) until the case is water tight.

 

[andreww]

Do you think he had nothing to do with this?

KW’s brother Dana allegedly hired someone to kill a person. KW and Dana were close, both had serious drug problems. Dana was also a drug dealer.

KW said he previously arranged a hit on HS that was called off.

Speculation: Is it a stretch that he might have arranged another hit? That might be the reason for his m/s campaign blitz?

KW got his drug problem in check a long time ago. And Kerry didn't say he arranged a hit on Honey, he said Barry asked him to arrange a hit on Honey. Big difference.

 

[andreww]

When Bruce McArthur was considered as a suspect, he wasn't just jailed.
The police had him under surveillance for quite some time. They only jumped in when another man went into his apartment and they felt he was at risk.

A small amount of DNA could possibly be explained, so no rush if a suspect is not considered a public risk.

When Holly Jones was killed, they asked all men in the 'hood for DNA and only one said no. TPS surveilled him and guess what?? He was the killer but they needed to prove it and have enough to go to trial.

They often leave a killer on the streets (I am NOT saying that KW is a killer nor had anything to do with the Sherman murders) until the case is water tight.

I agree with everything you've said. But if KW was a serious suspect, would the lead detective still be working the case part time?

If KW has any connection to this crime its to be a thorn in the side of the family. Possibly hoping that the Sherman family will pay him off or erase his lawsuit debt in order to shut him up.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

KW got his drug problem in check a long time ago. And Kerry didn't say he arranged a hit on Honey, he said Barry asked him to arrange a hit on Honey. Big difference.

Conspiracy to commit murder. KW admitted to conspiracy to commit murder. Whether you order it, facilitate it or actually kill the person, you are all equally guilty of murder.

"He said, 'I want you to whack my wife,'" Winter claimed. Winter then claimed the plan was aborted at the last minute.

"I called him and said: 'You know, there's no turning back, Barry, if I push the button,'" Winter said.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4514176

If you watch the Fifth Estate interview, KW said at one point the plan was aborted within minutes of it happening, and the hit man was/is named ‘Louis’.

 

[MistyWaters]

If you go in a house your DNA is there. Specifically touch DNA. But even one hair, the slightest bit of spit when talking or a discarded piece of dried skin.

And Kerry has stated several times that he's never been in that house.

DNA alone is rarely enough to prove any murder outside of a sexual assault occurring, especially if it’s only found on the premises. The house was listed for sale, an open house was held.....KW has proved he’s not always truthful. Even if his DNA was found somewhere in the home, that only proves he lied about never having been in the home. That finding doesn’t prove or disprove murder.

Aside from the fact he admitted to being prone to fabrication and embellishment on national TV, he also later failed a mental competency assessment meaning he was medically proven to be of unsound mind. Therefore if his claims by his SIL and attourney were true, that he suffered a nervous breakdown or incurred some other type of mental impairment prior or during his media blitz, nothing he said can be legally held against him because he was mentally unfit. (Aside from the fact he wasn’t under oath anyway).

So what he said during media interviews is totally meaningless, if that’s what you believe to be proof he was never at the Sherman residence.

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree with everything you've said. But if KW was a serious suspect, would the lead detective still be working the case part time?

If KW has any connection to this crime its to be a thorn in the side of the family. Possibly hoping that the Sherman family will pay him off or erase his lawsuit debt in order to shut him up.

Why on earth would the Sherman family pay KW off???

For what reason?

 

[MistyWaters]

I might’ve posted this before but it somewhat derails KW’s saga and leaves me to question his one-sided version of events.

Two siblings, one takes on the name of the adoptive parents, one does not. Each are alleged by the SIL to be suffering from a mental disability, JB passes, KW fails. One is complimentary of the Sherman legacy and removes himself from the appeal, the other remains bitter and hostile....

BBM

“In a portion of the Julia Winter affidavit referenced in the documents, Julia states that in 2017 it was “clear to everyone that (Jeffrey Barkin) was under mental disability.” That attempt to appoint a guardian for Jeffrey was abandoned after he produced a psychiatrist’s note stating he had “no capacity issues.”

Jeffrey Barkin told the Star recently that he has no interest in the ongoing dispute. “(Barry and Honey) did so much for the community, and I do not wish to diminish this,” he said....”
Barry Sherman’s cousin to undergo ‘disability’ assessment as billion-dollar appeal continues | The Star

 

[andreww]

Why on earth would the Sherman family pay KW off???

For what reason?

To go away? To stop spreading embarrassing stories?

 

[MistyWaters]

To go away? To stop spreading embarrassing stories?

Surely you can’t be serious? His statements were an embarrassment yes.....to his own family. Do you require a explanation of what it means when one fails a mental health assessment and as a result is deemed to be mentally unfit? If so, I’m sure I can find a link.

MANDEL: Barry Sherman’s cousin Kerry Winter suffered nervous breakdown, sister-in-law tells court

“So that might explain Kerry Winter’s bizarre statements in the wake of the Sherman slayings.“

 

[JDG]

To go away? To stop spreading embarrassing stories?

I wouldnt give him a dime. Let him tell all the stories he wishes, he's a self admitted liar. Done, over, ignored.

ETA: I believe they have increased their personal security but are going about their lives as their parents would have wanted them to do. The unveiling will be soon, then back to day to day living. If you know Jewish-ness, they won't be focussing on grief other than in a respectful manner.

 

[human]

Nice try, there is a difference between strangulation and asphyxiation.

Let me contribute a first-hand experience of suspension hanging. Although it was hardly comfortable, I lost consciousness within seconds. I have a slapdash dorm room set-up to thank for my survival; had I gotten all the details right, it would have been a relatively painless death. I mention it because gentle, lean-in forms of hanging are more lethal than you might expect, and I have occasionally wondered how many apparent suicides by hanging are more or less accidental... "experiments" by distraught individuals who are merely crying for help or seeking comfort in parasuicidal behavior. It's a bit like Tylenol overdose -- easy to kill yourself, if you're that careless, without quite meaning to -- but with no medical recourse and no chance to explain yourself after the act.

Common knowledge has it that suspension hanging is a slow, agonizing process of asphyxiation, which by all accounts is true of executions performed with a rope. However, it would appear that suicides tend to pad their ropes and belts -- because a thin rope of any kind digs into the neck and hurts about as much as you might imagine -- and presumably, the padding more effectively cuts off the blood supply to your brain. I am not alone in this; see [1], in which a completed suicide took only 13 seconds to black out. That's a few seconds longer than I took, insofar as my memory is a reliable record of the time taken, and FWIW, I was much more generous with the padding. Why make it hurt? Once your weight settles around your neck, there is a tremendous pressure and a rushing sensation in the head just before the world goes dark and swimmy. I had no thought of trying to stand up in order to save myself, and this was purely due to confusion and lack of time.

What the completed suicide experiences next is a question for a theologian. What I experienced next was the gradual awareness that I was lying on my back in the middle of the smooth hardwood floor, looking up at the ceiling. A daydream was fading away, and I realized that although I thought I had been chewing on something which I tasted vividly, there was nothing in my mouth. Then I noticed that there was blood all over my hand, and I found that it was from a small gash on my face. I sat up and tried to recall what had happened, but I could only reconstruct it. In any case, I had literally gotten off the hook, and although this didn't come with a bouquet and a rainbow, I was grateful that I had been spared the shame of an actual death by hanging.

The experience wasn't very painful, but it could have been very ugly.

[1] Sauvageau, A., & Racette, S. (2007). Agonal sequences in a filmed suicidal hanging: Analysis of respiratory and movement responses to asphyxia by hanging. Journal of Forensic Sciences, 52(4), 957-959

https://www.quora.com/Is-death-by-hanging-painful

You may wish to read the article I posted as it is about asphyxiation.

 

[human]

KW got his drug problem in check a long time ago. And Kerry didn't say he arranged a hit on Honey, he said Barry asked him to arrange a hit on Honey. Big difference.

Have you thought of becoming a verified insider. You seem to know Kerry so well. Have you known him for a long time?