Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #9

[deugirtni]

I’ve always wondered why the housekeeper didn’t do a once-over of the home, or look for Honey, especially when the first realtor and their clients arrived and waited for the Sherman’s agent.

(IIRC) Honey’s car was parked on the driveway outside the home. One clue that she may be home.

Early reports said the realtor couldn’t reach the Shermans to arrange for a showing.


https://www.google.ca/amp/s/nypost....ystery-on-deaths-of-billionaire-and-wife/amp/


https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4878887

Agreed. To me, it would be kinda awkward to be the cleaning person and arrive, and be unsure of who exactly was in the home with you. And especially if H's vehicle was right there, indicating at least a 50/50 chance that she *was* in the home.

 

[JDG]

Is there a link to JBouchers thread? I used the search feature but didn't find it. Thanks.

 

[JDG]

Agreed. To me, it would be kinda awkward to be the cleaning person and arrive, and be unsure of who exactly was in the home with you. And especially if H's vehicle was right there, indicating at least a 50/50 chance that she *was* in the home.

Perhaps Honey was often in the bedroom or in a den area working and didn't like to be disturbed?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Not to derail this thread, but Lexi, IIRC you went on an organized search(s) for Jeffrey Boucher? I got my first WS time out for defending his poor wife against a few who thought she was involved in his disappearance. Very sad case.

Yes, quite a few of us from WS were out looking. It was challenging terrain to search, especially in winter, but there were a lot of volunteers.
( I also remember your TO. : ) At least you said something great before being booted.)

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Is there a link to JBouchers thread? I used the search feature but didn't find it. Thanks.

It was removed for some reason.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Perhaps Honey was often in the bedroom or in a den area working and didn't like to be disturbed?

When the realtor showed up - why not search then?

It’s a mansion, I wonder if they had an intercom system. Maybe the maid called out for the Shermans on that if they had one? No answer, so presume they’re not home?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Likely because he got tired of preaching what he believes to be the truth to a bunch of people who will obviously never buy what he is selling?

He lost me at ‘Louis, the quasi-gangster/hitman.’

 

[dotr]

Not available in my region.

o/t rbbm.
Wife of missing jogger Jeffrey Boucher teams up with Websleuths
"The web forum
On Jan. 20, Durham police announced they were ending the ground search. “Mr. Boucher, quite simply, appears to have vanished,” Det. Sgt. Mitch Martin told reporters. “We are truly stumped.”

"Feeling hopeless, Kirsten began searching her husband’s name on the Internet and came across the websleuths.com forum. She was impressed with how extensively they had discussed and analyzed the details of Jeff’s life, albeit troubled by the harsh comments some users had made about her behaviour since his disappearance."

"Kirsten, a high school math teacher and pragmatic thinker, spent hours reading through the sleuth forum, debating what to do, before deciding to write a post of her own. “They had obviously put so much time into it already that I just thought, you know, these guys deserve some answers,” she said.

Soon, she and the sleuths were conversing back and forth, with them quizzing her on the many details of her husband’s disappearance — the $3,500 found in his filing cabinet at work, a deleted tweet from his daughter the night before he went missing that said he had gone for a run three hours ago and wasn’t back yet."
"Though the police investigation was exhaustive, Kirsten figured it couldn’t hurt to go through it all again with the sleuths. They helped her set up a missing-person page on Facebook, and she invited them to participate in a search party she has planned for the spring, when the snow melts."

"Downey said it’s not the first time someone close to a case has joined the sleuths in conversation. The site, she said, is a victim-friendly environment, and comments that are accusatory or mean are removed.


“For the most part,” Downey said, victims or other insiders “tell me they are there to clear up some of the speculation. They find out about the site, start to read, and they find themselves compelled to (make) sure information that is incorrect can be corrected.”

Overall, Kirsten said, conversing with the sleuths has been a positive experience. Knowing other people care means a lot to her. She is learning things and, slowly, readying herself to accept hard truths. On the subject of suicide, for example, Kirsten has said in past interviews there is a zero per cent chance her husband would have taken his own life. Her perspective has shifted lately.

“I’m open to discussing it,” she wrote last week in the forum, “mostly because we don’t have ANY clues, and the police seem to like exploring that area. So I’ll raise my percentage to 1%.”

“Now I don’t know,” she said at home a week later. Through the sleuth site, she has heard personal stories from people who have experienced suicide in their family and never saw it coming. Even in retrospect, there were no signs.

“It makes you think,” she said quietly. “Makes you wonder.”
ETA..
https://www.amazon.ca/Mysterious-Death-Jeffrey-Boucher-away-ebook/dp/B00LSWEE3S

 

[andreww]

o/t rbbm.
Wife of missing jogger Jeffrey Boucher teams up with Websleuths
"The web forum
On Jan. 20, Durham police announced they were ending the ground search. “Mr. Boucher, quite simply, appears to have vanished,” Det. Sgt. Mitch Martin told reporters. “We are truly stumped.”

"Feeling hopeless, Kirsten began searching her husband’s name on the Internet and came across the websleuths.com forum. She was impressed with how extensively they had discussed and analyzed the details of Jeff’s life, albeit troubled by the harsh comments some users had made about her behaviour since his disappearance."

"Kirsten, a high school math teacher and pragmatic thinker, spent hours reading through the sleuth forum, debating what to do, before deciding to write a post of her own. “They had obviously put so much time into it already that I just thought, you know, these guys deserve some answers,” she said.

Soon, she and the sleuths were conversing back and forth, with them quizzing her on the many details of her husband’s disappearance — the $3,500 found in his filing cabinet at work, a deleted tweet from his daughter the night before he went missing that said he had gone for a run three hours ago and wasn’t back yet."
"Though the police investigation was exhaustive, Kirsten figured it couldn’t hurt to go through it all again with the sleuths. They helped her set up a missing-person page on Facebook, and she invited them to participate in a search party she has planned for the spring, when the snow melts."

"Downey said it’s not the first time someone close to a case has joined the sleuths in conversation. The site, she said, is a victim-friendly environment, and comments that are accusatory or mean are removed.


“For the most part,” Downey said, victims or other insiders “tell me they are there to clear up some of the speculation. They find out about the site, start to read, and they find themselves compelled to (make) sure information that is incorrect can be corrected.”

Overall, Kirsten said, conversing with the sleuths has been a positive experience. Knowing other people care means a lot to her. She is learning things and, slowly, readying herself to accept hard truths. On the subject of suicide, for example, Kirsten has said in past interviews there is a zero per cent chance her husband would have taken his own life. Her perspective has shifted lately.

“I’m open to discussing it,” she wrote last week in the forum, “mostly because we don’t have ANY clues, and the police seem to like exploring that area. So I’ll raise my percentage to 1%.”

“Now I don’t know,” she said at home a week later. Through the sleuth site, she has heard personal stories from people who have experienced suicide in their family and never saw it coming. Even in retrospect, there were no signs.

“It makes you think,” she said quietly. “Makes you wonder.”
ETA..
https://www.amazon.ca/Mysterious-Death-Jeffrey-Boucher-away-ebook/dp/B00LSWEE3S

I had privately shared the story of my brother's suicide with Kristen. I assume that I am probably one of the people that she is referring to.

That story is an example of a family that simply didn't want to believe the obvious, and police obliging by ruling it death by misadventure.

Similarly, the threads here will filled with all sorts of far fetched theories. Also, Tims temporary disappearance several days before is akin to Honey's missing of her meeting. Of course those that believed the far fetched theories were quick to label it as just a coincidence as well.

 

[MistyWaters]

I had privately shared the story of my brother's suicide with Kristen. I assume that I am probably one of the people that she is referring to.

That story is an example of a family that simply didn't want to believe the obvious, and police obliging by ruling it death by misadventure.

Similarly, the threads here will filled with all sorts of far fetched theories. Also, Tims temporary disappearance several days before is akin to Honey's missing of her meeting. Of course those that believed the far fetched theories were quick to label it as just a coincidence as well.

Andreww, that the Shermans deaths were ruled a double homicide in Jan/17 is not a far fetched theory.

I am sorry for the loss of your brother and it’s very kind and considerate for you to reach out to others whom you’re able to offer helpful support during their time of deep loss and grief.

 

[andreww]

Andreww, that the Shermans deaths were ruled a double homicide in Jan/17 is not a far fetched theory.

I am sorry for the loss of your brother and it’s very kind and considerate for you to reach out to others whom you’re able to offer helpful support during their time of deep loss and grief.

Thank you. And I am just pointing out that it is not unheard of for police to change the COD to appease a grieving family. I agree that this case is a different animal, but given Barry's position in society, the stakes are much higher.

As for far fetched theories, I am more referring to theories posted here of international espionage etc.

 

[Satchie]

Thank you. And I am just pointing out that it is not unheard of for police to change the COD to appease a grieving family.

RSBM

That is only your assumption, you don't really know why the police/coroner determined that particular COD. For example, what guidelines around evidence does the coroner follow, in order to make a ruling of suicide?

Arguing that your possibly false assumption in that case, somehow proves the same possibly false assumption in another case, is just trying to pretend that you don't have a bias in both cases.

 

[casesensitive]

I had privately shared the story of my brother's suicide with Kristen. I assume that I am probably one of the people that she is referring to.

That story is an example of a family that simply didn't want to believe the obvious, and police obliging by ruling it death by misadventure.

snipped by me

With all due respect, and maybe it's just me, but I don't think that it is kosher to personally contact a missing man's wife (who stressed that she didn't think he died by suicide) to pitch your relentless suicide claim. It would be a totally different gesture if LE had proven or classified it a suicide, and which she accepted.

Kristen Boucher's final thought:
Ms. Boucher said she stands by her original gut feeling that her husband did not die by suicide.

Jeffrey Boucher’s family reflects one year after Whitby man’s mysterious disappearance

 

[JDG]

The two cases are so very different as well.

JBouchers' body showed no signs of foul play, whereas the Shermans bodies definitely involved foul play of undetermined nature (not released to public).

One cannot assume that the police can be bought and sold, that's a huge leap.

 

[andreww]

snipped by me

With all due respect, and maybe it's just me, but I don't think that it is kosher to personally contact a missing man's wife (who stressed that she didn't think he died by suicide) to pitch your relentless suicide claim. It would be a totally different gesture if LE had proven or classified it a suicide, and which she accepted.

Kristen Boucher's final thought:
Ms. Boucher said she stands by her original gut feeling that her husband did not die by suicide.

Jeffrey Boucher’s family reflects one year after Whitby man’s mysterious disappearance

That was written over three years ago, not sure what her opinion is now. But simply put, JB left for a two hour run about an hour before he needed to be at work. Not sure how anybody could possibly deduce that he ran down to the lake and accidentally slipped on ice.

As for contacting MB, I'd spoken with her quite a bit by that point and had personally spent hours searching for her husband. She is a strong woman and seemed to want to know the truth. She was opposed to the suicide theory because she never saw anything that would indicate it. I simply explained that it is quite common to not see any obvious signs, however I'll argue that going for a run on a winters night and being gone so long that your family calls the police was a good indication that something was amiss. As would missing a meeting.

 

[andreww]

The two cases are so very different as well.

JBouchers' body showed no signs of foul play, whereas the Shermans bodies definitely involved foul play of undetermined nature (not released to public).

One cannot assume that the police can be bought and sold, that's a huge leap.

Ive not said that foul play was not involved in this case. A murder suicide still involves a murder.

 

[MistyWaters]

That was written over three years ago, not sure what her opinion is now. But simply put, JB left for a two hour run about an hour before he needed to be at work. Not sure how anybody could possibly deduce that he ran down to the lake and accidentally slipped on ice.

As for contacting MB, I'd spoken with her quite a bit by that point and had personally spent hours searching for her husband. She is a strong woman and seemed to want to know the truth. She was opposed to the suicide theory because she never saw anything that would indicate it. I simply explained that it is quite common to not see any obvious signs, however I'll argue that going for a run on a winters night and being gone so long that your family calls the police was a good indication that something was amiss. As would missing a meeting.

Generally I’m able to connect your thoughts and theories even if I disagree with your conclusions but I must admit, this once escapes me.....how does Honey Sherman missing a board meeting of Baycrest Foundation on Dec 12th connect to her murder, regardless of who committed it? Especially since we don’t have any pertinent information indicating why didn’t attend or why she neglected to inform the CEO of her absence in advance? The couple were not missing the following day, in fact they both met with the architect to discuss their new home plans late on the afternoon Dec 13th at Apotex, when it’s reported they were last seen alive.

Neither the architect nor Apotex employees have spoken to the media about interactions with both or either of the Shermans that last Wednesday and so, in the absence of any supporting information, how was a missed board meeting the prior day significant to your m/s belief?

 

[andreww]

Generally I’m able to connect your thoughts and theories even if I disagree with your conclusions but I must admit, this once escapes me.....how does Honey Sherman missing a board meeting of Baycrest Foundation on Dec 12th connect to her murder, regardless of who committed it? Especially since we don’t have any pertinent information indicating why didn’t attend or why she neglected to inform the CEO of her absence in advance? The couple were not missing the following day, in fact they both met with the architect to discuss their new home plans late on the afternoon Dec 13th at Apotex, when it’s reported they were last seen alive.

Neither the architect nor Apotex employees have spoken to the media about interactions with both or either of the Shermans that last Wednesday and so, in the absence of any supporting information, how was a missed board meeting the prior day significant to your m/s belief?

Simply put, it was an indication that something might not right within the household. If you read the quote in the Mcleans article the person says "if it was anybody else but Honey..." indicating that missing a meeting is something that she'd never done in the past. I believe that it was not in her nature to do that without letting somebody know. And, when a person has always turned right, you have to ask yourself why they turned left on that one particular day? Some label that a coincidence, but I disagree. Coincidence is a random occurrence of something that is out of your control. This is something that she would never do, but on that day she did, you have to at least wonder why?

ETA - I also thought her explanation was very vague. Not that she had to explain to anyone, but if someone calls me out on missing a meeting I'm going to at least offer a quick explanation as to why it happened. This leads me to believe that the reason was personal as opposed to bad scheduling or something business related.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

d

 

[Deleted member 102539]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.the...itby_teacher_seeks_help_from_web_sleuths.html

Sorry that you can’t read the link in your country. It’s just a very short article about Tom Klatt’s involvement in the case.

ID article written by Det. Tom Klatt:

http://crimefeed.com/2014/06/last-seen-alive-4/

I bought the book, written by Ann Brocklehurst and finally have to read it. I vague remember the Boucher-case and especially remember, that I couldn't believe JB's suicide.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

@andreww or anyone who has the same theory about there being a coverup, that this is m/s, not m/m.

If it’s a conspiracy the expectation would be that this case will go cold.

Eventually it will likely be revisited by a cold case detective in the future long after the current investigators are gone. Or it could go before an inquest. Isn’t that a huge risk?

An innocent person or persons could be blamed for murder.

ETA: not to mention the fallout for the people involved in any coverup.