CANADA Canada - Ben Tyner, 32, cowboy, horse returned w/o him, Merritt, British Columbia, 26 Jan 2019 - #2

[Portabella]

Diane Elaine, the moon can come into play on how well you can see. I wonder what stage the moon was at that morning. Also I am sure loggers use machinery with lights and lights on their trucks etc, they may even have lighting set up in a work area. Plus if Gunny was hungry and upset, he may have been making lots of noise, we just don't know. IMHO

ETA Moon Phases 2019 – Lunar Calendar for Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 

[zecats]

This is my first post on this thread. Not a cowboy or have any expertise or even familiarity with life on a cattle ranch so please forgive what might be a pretty stupid question. I believe I recall Gunny was found at 5:30 a.m., riderless. It must have been totally dark at that hour. How do cowboys see much of anything in the dark hours before the sun rises (or sets)? After so many weeks, I guess it’s very unlikely Ben will be found alive and that is tragic.

I questioned that as well. Only explanation I could give myself (and I believe others agreed with me or perhaps thought of it first) is that the man KR who reportedly found Gunny at that time is an experienced hunter. Hunters start before sunup in the areas I know hunters hunt, ifkwim, so I imagine his eyesight was well accustomed to darkness, his ears to sounds, etc. Plus he most likely had some sort of light source. He stated he was up there for the better part of a month, every day and he's supposedly very experienced with the area. All JMO of course.

 

[DianeElaine]

I questioned that as well. Only explanation I could give myself (and I believe others agreed with me or perhaps thought of it first) is that the man KR who reportedly found Gunny at that time is an experienced hunter. Hunters start before sunup in the areas I know hunters hunt, ifkwim, so I imagine his eyesight was well accustomed to darkness, his ears to sounds, etc. Plus he most likely had some sort of light source. He stated he was up there for the better part of a month, every day and he's supposedly very experienced with the area. All JMO of course.

Thank you for this well-reasoned reply and for taking the time to answer my question. Much appreciated.

 

[zecats]

Speaking from experience when you move into a small town (actually really small) you feel like an alien for quite some time. The fact he had made friends in the time he was there (short time) is actually amazing. Without revealing where I live, I can say I lived in Denver until 1993 aka "the summer of violence". Its odd, but when people sit and watch tv shows and see parents or single mom's that are living in rough/dangerous area's, they yell at the tv....move, get out of that area. But most really don't, as its very hard to cut roots and move to the middle of nowhere. I DID. I can say I was stared at, people waved, but you could see the stares and NO ONE ever befriended me for over a year, I was very much alone. Small town folk (ranchers) are not trusting, and they all thought...(lol) that I was running from something or hiding out. In reality I was getting my kids the heck out of Denver. Just saying, many may have a BIG OLE hunch on what happened to Ben, but to get them to break that silence will take guts or a few drinks at a bar and a slip of the tongue. Its so hard to explain what I am talking about, but people are people are people and I am sure its much the same in Canada ranch country as it is here in Colorado. Yes they knew why he was there, but that does not mean they welcomed him with open arms at all. I just hope someone has the fortitude to come forward and even anonymously give a tip. Or....slip at the pub and tell someone who will come forward. I have now been out this way for 26 years, so I now totally belong here, but it took time and lots of it. I just hope someone will come forward for Ben. There is so much more to this story, I can feel it in my bones and honestly I cannot get this case off my mind, that is why I keep coming back. Something has to give. I am just glad his horse and dogs are safe in Wyoming with his family. Now just to find Ben and give his family some closure. This one truly hurts my heart, you often hear how great a man was after they are gone, but in this case I do believe he was a great man who lead a dream life, and he had so much more time to continue that dream. Someone took that away from him, and there is NO excuse none for that. I hope justice is swift once they get this puzzle figured out and they pay greatly for killing this cowboy and his beautiful dream. My heart hurts for his family so badly. I know I am not sleuthing great like many of you, but trust me I am reading and listening to all your hard work, and want to thank you for being such great sleuthers. IMHO P.S. Sweet Anna if your reading, I dont' blame you a bit for closing your account, be safe and have a great life.

BBM
First I have to say that this case has intrigued beyond any other. It's the reason I keep looking to see if there is anything that can help solve it. From my personal pov.

Also, it is amazing and seems to me that Ben had experience in making friends wherever he went. His FB page has friends that he met while in Australia when he went there to work, for example, and stayed connected to. (Though I always found Aussies to be extremely friendly sort of folk anyway).

Also on the official missing page, there is a section that asks where everyone who has joined and commented in that group - where are they from. Following the list of comments and those who are local, seems to be so many who knew Ben and commented what a great guy he was. Even some there who stated they had the pleasure of working with him (on the ranch). So it seems to be correct, that he did make quite a few connections in his short time there, even more so because of this crime.

MISSING: BEN TYNER

 

[witch1]

This is my first post as well, i have not yet got threw reading them all thought i would comment on the ones that I have questioned as well.
Yes, it is dark at that hour in January, how do you find a horse at 5:30am in the dark? The man who found Gunny is a hunter. Was the man, poaching, with a spot light or something? I would like to know how the same man that found Gunny, As well in 2008 happens to find a man wanted for murder of three children, up in the bushes as well.

bare with me please, well I learn how to work this page. Im not sure I have done this right.


But personally I think like my gifted friend has said from day one, the church arson is connected..

 

[Trudie]

Speaking from experience when you move into a small town (actually really small) you feel like an alien for quite some time. The fact he had made friends in the time he was there (short time) is actually amazing. Without revealing where I live, I can say I lived in Denver until 1993 aka "the summer of violence". Its odd, but when people sit and watch tv shows and see parents or single mom's that are living in rough/dangerous area's, they yell at the tv....move, get out of that area. But most really don't, as its very hard to cut roots and move to the middle of nowhere. I DID. I can say I was stared at, people waved, but you could see the stares and NO ONE ever befriended me for over a year, I was very much alone. Small town folk (ranchers) are not trusting, and they all thought...(lol) that I was running from something or hiding out. In reality I was getting my kids the heck out of Denver. Just saying, many may have a BIG OLE hunch on what happened to Ben, but to get them to break that silence will take guts or a few drinks at a bar and a slip of the tongue. Its so hard to explain what I am talking about, but people are people are people and I am sure its much the same in Canada ranch country as it is here in Colorado. Yes they knew why he was there, but that does not mean they welcomed him with open arms at all. I just hope someone has the fortitude to come forward and even anonymously give a tip. Or....slip at the pub and tell someone who will come forward. I have now been out this way for 26 years, so I now totally belong here, but it took time and lots of it. I just hope someone will come forward for Ben. There is so much more to this story, I can feel it in my bones and honestly I cannot get this case off my mind, that is why I keep coming back. Something has to give. I am just glad his horse and dogs are safe in Wyoming with his family. Now just to find Ben and give his family some closure. This one truly hurts my heart, you often hear how great a man was after they are gone, but in this case I do believe he was a great man who lead a dream life, and he had so much more time to continue that dream. Someone took that away from him, and there is NO excuse none for that. I hope justice is swift once they get this puzzle figured out and they pay greatly for killing this cowboy and his beautiful dream. My heart hurts for his family so badly. I know I am not sleuthing great like many of you, but trust me I am reading and listening to all your hard work, and want to thank you for being such great sleuthers. IMHO P.S. Sweet Anna if your reading, I dont' blame you a bit for closing your account, be safe and have a great life.

Do you read the Missing Ben Tyner FB?
He had many friends in Ca. Many shared their rides & experiences with Ben, as well as prayers for his family.
So many of us feel the same, we can’t let go of this case.
Like Ben’s brother said , “all Ben wanted was to be a cowboy.”
Hopefully someone will soon be in prison for robbing Ben of the many rides he had left. A long, long prison sentence, with no horses, no smell of fresh cut hay, never to hear a cow bellering for her calf or the sound of tractors in the distance, is what he deserves. Moo
(Ze, we posted nearly the same at the same time)

 

[Trudie]

This is my first post as well, i have not yet got threw reading them all thought i would comment on the ones that I have questioned as well.
Yes, it is dark at that hour in January, how do you find a horse at 5:30am in the dark? The man who found Gunny is a hunter. Was the man, poaching, with a spot light or something? I would like to know how the same man that found Gunny, As well in 2008 happens to find a man wanted for murder of three children, up in the bushes as well.

bare with me please, well I learn how to work this page. Im not sure I have done this right.


But personally I think like my gifted friend has said from day one, the church arson is connected..

I see no connection between the fire & Bens disappearance.
Jmo

 

[Satchie]

This is my first post as well, i have not yet got threw reading them all thought i would comment on the ones that I have questioned as well.
Yes, it is dark at that hour in January, how do you find a horse at 5:30am in the dark? The man who found Gunny is a hunter. Was the man, poaching, with a spot light or something? I would like to know how the same man that found Gunny, As well in 2008 happens to find a man wanted for murder of three children, up in the bushes as well.

bare with me please, well I learn how to work this page. Im not sure I have done this right.


But personally I think like my gifted friend has said from day one, the church arson is connected..

Welcome Witch1!

It's a good question about the apparent coincidence of Kim Robinson finding the horse. However, on reflection, I think it's probable he was called in to track and capture the horse after it had been sighted the day or night before.

The early media reports hint at this: "Loggers in the area found the lone horse and informed local ranchers, who retrieved the horse and identified its owner — a 32-year-old man from the area who worked at a local ranch."
UPDATE: Ben Tyner confirmed missing by Nicola Ranch - Merritt Herald

Robinson would be the guy to call in this town of 7,000, given his fame and enjoyment of tracking, and he set off to start it super early in the morning, probably in his truck. The horse might have been hanging around the logging road because that's where he'd been unloaded.

IMO these kinds of circumstances are never straightforward, but the media prefer to simplify the story and not get 'bogged down' in explaining all the details. Often causes head scratches for us detail-oriented folks.

 

[zecats]

Do you read the Missing Ben Tyner FB?
He had many friends in Ca. Many shared their rides & experiences with Ben, as well as prayers for his family.
So many of us feel the same, we can’t let go of this case.
Like Ben’s brother said , “all Ben wanted was to be a cowboy.”
Hopefully someone will soon be in prison for robbing Ben of the many rides he had left. A long, long prison sentence, with no horses, no smell of fresh cut hay, never to hear a cow bellering for her calf or the sound of tractors in the distance, is what he deserves. Moo
(Ze, we posted nearly the same at the same time)

Well this confirms we are on the same wavelength.
Correct in all you say about Ben - I agree that he must of been one heck off a guy, one h*ll of a cowboy.

 

[zecats]

Welcome Witch1!

It's a good question about the apparent coincidence of Kim Robinson finding the horse. However, on reflection, I think it's probable he was called in to track and capture the horse after it had been sighted the day or night before.

The early media reports hint at this: "Loggers in the area found the lone horse and informed local ranchers, who retrieved the horse and identified its owner — a 32-year-old man from the area who worked at a local ranch."
UPDATE: Ben Tyner confirmed missing by Nicola Ranch - Merritt Herald

Robinson would be the guy to call in this town of 7,000, given his fame and enjoyment of tracking, and he set off to start it super early in the morning, probably in his truck. The horse might have been hanging around the logging road because that's where he'd been unloaded.

IMO these kinds of circumstances are never straightforward, but the media prefer to simplify the story and not get 'bogged down' in explaining all the details. Often causes head scratches for us detail-oriented folks.

You know, this version makes much more sense. I was curious about the ever-present statement that "loggers found the horse." I read an account earlier that's similar which stated the loggers found the horse and couldn't catch her, then KR found her later.

So let say's loggers did see Gunny and then call KR to help. His version still intermingles here with the 5:30am sighting, broken rein, waiting to find out whose horse, having been in the area for a month and not seeing any trace of tracks leading from the ranch area. This means to me that loggers saw Gunny Sunday, as they would not be logging at, say, 2am, and spot the horse in order for KR to catch her at 5:30am. This is sort of a confirmation that Gunny was dropped off at least on Sunday and maybe Saturday. IMO

Also, KR's comments about tracking Gunny back the way she came and finding that she had been hanging out with wild horses (shod tracks vs unshod tracks) makes the time frame fit as well.

Thanks for this great clarification. Makes complete sense that journalists shorten versions for convenience of news to fit, etc.

 

[superbee]

You may be on to something. I wonder if they checked it out. Can you tell by looking at some of Ben's pictures?

Up thread we were discussing Gunny's bridle bit, apparently she may have had a spade bit on her bridle when found. The question was, would Ben have used a spade bit on Gunny?

Strange you mention Ben's pictures, Watcher 9, I was looking at the Find Ben Tyler page (sorry, I don't know how to bring it over) and halfway down is a lovely color photo of Ben on horseback with his 2 dogs, posted on March 22. His brother Jack confirmed it was Ben and his 2 dogs.

In that photo I think Ben has a Hackamore (no bit bridle) on Gunny. Makes me suspect even more it was not Ben who put that spade bit bridle on Gunny. Maybe someone involved in Ben's disappearance, who knew Gunny would have a hard time eating with that spade bit when she was turned loose up on that mountain, and would hurt her mouth every time she stepped on dragging reins?

 

[zecats]

Up thread we were discussing Gunny's bridle bit, apparently she may have had a spade bit on her bridle when found. The question was, would Ben have used a spade bit on Gunny?

Strange you mention Ben's pictures, Watcher 9, I was looking at the Find Ben Tyler page (sorry, I don't know how to bring it over) and halfway down is a lovely color photo of Ben on horseback with his 2 dogs, posted on March 22. His brother Jack confirmed it was Ben and his 2 dogs.

In that photo I think Ben has a Hackamore (no bit bridle) on Gunny. Makes me suspect even more it was not Ben who put that spade bit bridle on Gunny. Maybe someone involved in Ben's disappearance, who knew Gunny would have a hard time eating with that spade bit when she was turned loose up on that mountain, and would hurt her mouth every time she stepped on dragging reins?

Here's the link:

MISSING: BEN TYNER

 

[zecats]

Here's the link:

MISSING: BEN TYNER

And here are those wonderful photos.

 

[zecats]

And here are those wonderful photos.

And here are those wonderful photos.

Sorry having wifi problems so posted separately.

 

[MistyWaters]

Well this confirms we are on the same wavelength.
Correct in all you say about Ben - I agree that he must of been one heck off a guy, one h*ll of a cowboy.

Oh I totally agree Ben was obviously a great guy. In discussing small town dynamics I don’t think anyone was suggesting Ben was to blame in any way for whoever unknown happened near the end of January and I most certainly wasn’t. But something did happen to cause his death and now we know police believe it was caused intentionally by somebody else.

So just my opinion, it’s not surprising why the RCMP have now elevated the seriousness by announcing criminal involvement not long after Ben’s family pleaded for help in solving Ben’s disappearance. In seeking information and tips, they must break through the layer of local loyalty that often is present. That’s what they’re focused on doing and all hope is that they’ll be successful.

 

[Trudie]

Up thread we were discussing Gunny's bridle bit, apparently she may have had a spade bit on her bridle when found. The question was, would Ben have used a spade bit on Gunny?

Strange you mention Ben's pictures, Watcher 9, I was looking at the Find Ben Tyler page (sorry, I don't know how to bring it over) and halfway down is a lovely color photo of Ben on horseback with his 2 dogs, posted on March 22. His brother Jack confirmed it was Ben and his 2 dogs.

In that photo I think Ben has a Hackamore (no bit bridle) on Gunny. Makes me suspect even more it was not Ben who put that spade bit bridle on Gunny. Maybe someone involved in Ben's disappearance, who knew Gunny would have a hard time eating with that spade bit when she was turned loose up on that mountain, and would hurt her mouth every time she stepped on dragging reins?

Ben switched his tack up, I’ve found a lot of videos of him working/training Gunny. Not msm so can’t post them.
In my entire life, any horse that got away from me while saddled, rolled first thing!
IMO, Gunny was not out there as long as some might think. I think she would have tried to roll & get her saddle off. Jmo

 

[zecats]

Ben switched his tack up, I’ve found a lot of videos of him working/training Gunny. Not msm so can’t post them.
In my entire life, any horse that got away from me while saddled, rolled first thing!
IMO, Gunny was not out there as long as some might think. I think she would have tried to roll & get her saddle off. Jmo

Ha so true! Didn't seem to have a mark on her either.

Horse belonging to missing Merritt cowboy arrived at ranch unscathed

The horse owned and last ridden by missing cowboy Ben Tyner arrived at the Nicola Ranch unscathed with nothing to indicate how it had lost its rider, according to the ranch office manager.

Tammy Straya told Postmedia News that Tyner had brought the horse with him from Wyoming when he took the job as Nicola Ranch’s ranch manager three months ago.

“The horse is good. Nothing attacked the horse; something might have scared it, but there’s no blood, no spur marks, no scratches. It’s his horse, and it’s a gentle horse,” Straya said.

 

[MistyWaters]

A possible theory I’ve considered for quite some time so I’m going to toss it out in writing...

Although Canada and the US are neighbours, citizens of each respective country cannot just apply for a job and be hired across the border. In the US I believe Canadians requires a prospective employer to sponsor them for a green card, which must be approved by the govt. In Canada, we have various similar programs including the Temporary Foreign Workers Program enabling people from outside of Canada, for example in the agricultural industry, to be hired as long as the prospective employer can prove there’s a shortage of qualified Canadian workers in that certain sector.

If it’s true Ben only applied for the job in October, for NR to go through all the red tape involving govt paperwork so that he’d be hired as a foreign worker and moving the next month just seems really, really quick to me.

I also notice details of Ben’s residency status in Canada is never mentioned by the media whatsoever. Surely they’re curious?

That’s why I wonder....is it possible NR hired him through some type of private arrangement and as soon as other qualified ranchers figured out he was an American working here not quite legally, he unknowingly became the target of resentment in the area by those who were overlooked for the NR position. That he was approached for that very reason, maybe after a night of a few drinks in a bar, then a fight turned vicious and deadly?

I’m not insinuating blame on Ben whatsoever. He’s described as the sort of really good natured, peaceful kind of guy who would never cause any animosity toward others. Yet police state they have reason to believe he was targeted. Why then, for what reason? I’m very certain ranch workers in that area are a closely knit group and “talk”, regardless of who is their current employer. If my theory is the slightly close to the truth, I hope they’ll talk to LE.

Purely speculation...

 

[superbee]

Sorry having wifi problems so posted separately.

Thank you so much, bless your heart!!

 

[enelram]

A possible theory I’ve considered for quite some time so I’m going to toss it out in writing...

Although Canada and the US are neighbours, citizens of each respective country cannot just apply for a job and be hired across the border. In the US I believe Canadians requires a prospective employer to sponsor them for a green card, which must be approved by the govt. In Canada, we have various similar programs including the Temporary Foreign Workers Program enabling people from outside of Canada, for example in the agricultural industry, to be hired as long as the prospective employer can prove there’s a shortage of qualified Canadian workers in that certain sector.

If it’s true Ben only applied for the job in October, for NR to go through all the red tape involving govt paperwork so that he’d be hired as a foreign worker and moving the next month just seems really, really quick to me.

I also notice details of Ben’s residency status in Canada is never mentioned by the media whatsoever. Surely they’re curious?

That’s why I wonder....is it possible NR hired him through some type of private arrangement and as soon as other qualified ranchers figured out he was an American working here not quite legally, he unknowingly became the target of resentment in the area by those who were overlooked for the NR position. That he was approached for that very reason, maybe after a night of a few drinks in a bar, then a fight turned vicious and deadly?

I’m not insinuating blame on Ben whatsoever. He’s described as the sort of really good natured, peaceful kind of guy who would never cause any animosity toward others. Yet police state they have reason to believe he was targeted. Why then, for what reason? I’m very certain ranch workers in that area are a closely knit group and “talk”, regardless of who is their current employer. If my theory is the slightly close to the truth, I hope they’ll talk to LE.

Purely speculation...

Your suspicion certainly has merit. Good thinking.
We've talked about this possibility earlier on the original thread.
even more possible, IMO, is that one of the current or past NR
cowboys had sour grapes over not being considered for the mgr.
job. 4 or 5 cowboys lost their jobs at NR last year. That has to
hurt badly especially in an area of few steady employment
opportunities.
I wonder if the mgr. job was even advertised? If so, where?
Maybe only in US ?
I saw an article from around the time the ranch let go of the
old mgr. and the 9 cowboys and the article mentioned that
someone stole a NR ranch truck and a bunch of expensive tools.
I wondered if this was a revenge burglary due to being let go.
Did a disgruntled fired employee come back to steal stuff to get
back at the ranch?
Now before you think this is a silly idea, let me tell you something: I was at my feed store a month ago and the clerks
and owner's wife were all viewing a video trying to identify
a burglar stealing stuff at night on the video. 2 of the clerks
were convinced it was a young man who had been fired from
his job at the store just a few days prior to the burglary.
He'd come back to get even with the owner for firing him.
Some people do crazy things when they get fired or get overlooked for promotion.
moo.