CANADA Canada - Ben Tyner, 32, cowboy, horse returned w/o him, Merritt, British Columbia, 26 Jan 2019 - #2

[watcher9]

Boy, I haven’t seen that image since the first thread.
No, he wouldn’t haul his trailer on an evening out. Well, if his evening was at the stock auction, he would. But going for dinner or drinks, there’d be no reason, it’d be a hassle to park
The photo you are referring to the trailer was unhooked, correct?

No, they were hooked together. IIRC, it was shown during a video. It wasn't a still photo.

 

[watcher9]

The facts in this case do seem bizarre, like staging a horse for instance. This perp was trying to be clever in a creatively deceptive way.
But there is a story here. Any prosecutor will need facts (evidence) to tell it and to prove what happened.

So, in staging a horse, could they have actually cut one of the reins and left it somewhere else to confuse searchers?

 

[watcher9]

Remember when the local tracker Kim R. found the horse, around
5-5:30 am Monday morning, once he caught the horse and tied
it to a tree, he called a "couple of cowboys" to tell them about
finding the horse. They didn't reply back until 12:30pm telling
him it was Ben's horse and that Ben had been missing since
Saturday evening.
Full stop.
So who already knew Ben was 'missing' since Sat. night. And how did they know this? Why did it take ' couple cowboys' 5 hours
to reply to Kim R. Was someone getting their story in line and
making sure their stories are straight and similar?
And why didn't these cowboys 'alert' someone that Ben was
missing even before the horse was found? Did no one care?
Or did no one notice he was missing?
Investigators need to hone in on these "cowboys" about what
they knew and when did they know it.
moo

Would he have tied up the horse to a tree with only one rein? If the other one had broken off, what would stop the horse from breaking this one off?

 

[Trudie]

Remember when the local tracker Kim R. found the horse, around
5-5:30 am Monday morning, once he caught the horse and tied
it to a tree, he called a "couple of cowboys" to tell them about
finding the horse. They didn't reply back until 12:30pm telling
him it was Ben's horse and that Ben had been missing since
Saturday evening.
Full stop.
So who already knew Ben was 'missing' since Sat. night. And how did they know this? Why did it take ' couple cowboys' 5 hours
to reply to Kim R. Was someone getting their story in line and
making sure their stories are straight and similar?
And why didn't these cowboys 'alert' someone that Ben was
missing even before the horse was found? Did no one care?
Or did no one notice he was missing?
Investigators need to hone in on these "cowboys" about what
they knew and when did they know it.
moo

Hey Enelram

The Livestock Identification Services has to identify Gunny by her brand. That’s what led them to NR. I shudder to think what might have happened had she not been branded. Thankfully she is & it was recorded, presumably when she entered Canada.

 

[cutter99]

Does one normally keep the horse trailer hooked on the truck all the time or just when they are going to haul a horse? What about going out to town for the evening? I wasn't able to view the video in the article to see if it shows the actual truck and trailer in his driveway but I thought I remembered seeing it somewhere.

His truck and trailer were still parked in his driveway when he was reported missing.

'No closure': Family of missing cowboy Ben Tyner appeal for more information in search

The easy answer to whether or not someone leaves a truck and trailer hooked up is it depends on the situation.

Leaving a truck and trailer hooked up is not uncommon. I will leave either my horse trailer or stock trailer hooked up if I am going to continually be using them. I also have another vehicle to drive so sometimes it is easier to not unhook. It does no harm to the truck and trailer to leave them hooked up, especially on level ground and if you unplug the trailer from the truck.

It is very common in farming/ ranching situations to leave them hooked up because they are used almost daily. It does not take long to hook or unhook, especially when you do it regularly, but it makes no sense to unhook if you are using it again the next day. Farming and ranching are all about efficiency, in time and resources.

Have I ever pulled a trailer to the grocery store or Walmart because I was too lazy to unhook? You betcha!

 

[cutter99]

Would he have tied up the horse to a tree with only one rein? If the other one had broken off, what would stop the horse from breaking this one off?

Most experienced horsemen tie with one rein. The second rein is run through the gullet of the saddle and looped over the horn. This secures the second rein so it doesn’t get stepped on or drag on the ground. Horsemen usually tie this way if they are expecting the horse to stand for awhile. They might leave the second rein over the neck if they are just tying for a couple minutes.

Only inexperienced riders tie with both reins. Those of us who have been around for sometime know you can very damage a horse’s mouth by tying with two.

Tying by the reins is NOT preferred. When I know I am going to be out for hours, I either carry a rope halter and lead to tie with or I put the halter on under my horse’s bridle and carry a rope on my saddle. I usually do not do this around the farm.

 

[enelram]

Would he have tied up the horse to a tree with only one rein? If the other one had broken off, what would stop the horse from breaking this one off?

If a horse ties well you can tie with a shoestring and it won't break the shoestring. most all good ranch horses tie very well. Meaning
they won't pull back and break gear unless spooked. So I can believe he tied w/ one rein, out of necessity.

 

[cutter99]

So, in staging a horse, could they have actually cut one of the reins and left it somewhere else to confuse searchers?

Yes, they could have, but you can tell obviously the difference between cut and torn leather.

 

[enelram]

So, in staging a horse, could they have actually cut one of the reins and left it somewhere else to confuse searchers?

Can't picture that degree of staging. Do we know exactly where
the broken rein was found in relation to where the horse was found?
Such a co-incidence that Ben's brother found the rein. Still this
makes me wonder if the rest of the search was done in a careless
manner and there are more clues out there unfound.
Remember the local who said some searchers told her the SAR
stuck to the trails so it doesn't sound to me like a true "grid search" was done.

 

[Trudie]

I don't think he headed out on horseback alone and vanished. He may have ridden to the backcountry on Saturday afternoon, but he was seen somewhere else that night.

All his stuff, truck, phone, dog is at home. It looks like he was at home when something happened.

RCMP have said that they believe something happened after Saturday, meaning Sunday or later. No one has reported seeing him on Sunday. His horse was found on a logging road by a trapper just after five o'clock on Monday morning.

I think so too. He may have got Gunny out for a bit of exercise, maybe worked her in the feed yard, staying relatively close to home.

If it is factual his phone was found in his truck, Ben might have arrived home Saturday night to someone in his driveway, someone he knew, possibly. He could have exited his truck, approached someone & been ambushed.
Of course his phone could have been returned to his truck by the perp.
All speculation.

 

[superbee]

What could possibly be the purpose of saddling up Gunny, then hauling her off the ranch and traveling miles to get her up the mountain? For what purpose? Where would you turn that big rig around up there? What if Gunny just followed the rig back down to the Valley...what would be gained? Why take all that risk of being seen and possibly recorded?

 

[Trudie]

I still find it strange that Ben did not take his cell phone, especially if he headed out alone on horseback. I got cell service all down the hill into the valley on my old cell phone 2 weeks ago.

And I think the police and Ben's family might have an idea how long Ben was gone by the condition his dogs were in, especially if they were left alone in his house. Food bowls empty, little water, puddles of pee and piles of poop. Nose prints on windows, nail scratches on doors from frantic dogs needing to get out... jmo

Thanks for local info @superbee
We don’t know if Ben kept his dogs inside or not.
It concerns me Ben was attacked at his home, in his yard area & the perp had access to Ben’s keys. Meaning if perp wanted or felt he needed to enter Ben’s home, he could, without B & E. I’m not implying this to be a robbery or theft crime. Only if someone wanted to feed or water inside animals, they could.
All MOO

 

[Trudie]

What could possibly be the purpose of saddling up Gunny, then hauling her off the ranch and traveling miles to get her up the mountain? For what purpose? Where would you turn that big rig around up there? What if Gunny just followed the rig back down to the Valley...what would be gained? Why take all that risk of being seen and possibly recorded?

The purpose would be to create the impression Ben had a riding accident or was attacked by a wild animal, IMO.
Turning around might not have been an issue, we don’t know where the horse was dropped. My guess is the perp knows the area like the back of his dirty hands. Stop on the road, unload a Gunny, swat her on the rump & drive away. All moo

 

[enelram]

Questions I'd like to see get answered:
Has LE interrogated the guy on FB who rode out w/ Ben previously to show him around the ranch property and admitted
he was with him the day Ben took that panned photo of ranch property?
This same cowboy admitted he "rode with Ben for a few months
before he moved on". So why did he move on? Was he fired?
He still lives in the area up on "the mountain". And he admits
he's spent a lot of time up there looking around for Ben. And he
shows pics of himself operating and having access to heavy digging
equipment like backhoes. A lot of possiblilities here that should be
checked out.
And also follow the trail at the ranch of WHO said he might have
gone out looking for strays. Was this an innocent comment or
part of the story that some of the cowboys "knew" or made up?

 

[Trudie]

Staging the horse is too complicated for a one-stop accidental murder.The clever, bungled and long-winded murder scenario seems feminine. Who is the culprit?

It does have a feminine element to me, as well. Otherwise, why not kill Ben in a drive by shooting as he got out of his truck, leave his body to be found. It is moo the perp was threatened by Ben & felt he was running out of time to get rid of Ben.

So, in staging a horse, could they have actually cut one of the reins and left it somewhere else to confuse searchers?

. But there’d be footprints in the snow from the person leaving it, they’d have to walk to & fro to drop it, right?

 

[Trudie]

Has LE interrogated the guy on FB who rode out w/ Ben previously to show him around the ranch property and admitted
he was with him the day Ben took that panned photo of ranch property?
This same cowboy admitted he "rode with Ben for a few months
before he moved on". So why did he move on? Was he fired?

Can we discuss this person? W/o using a name?

 

[Trudie]

One thing I think most relevant is Jack & Jennifer Tyner both referred to Ben in the past tense shortly after Ben went missing.
His mom, Jennifer, mentioned never hearing Ben’s laugh or feeling his strong arms around her again, Jack said something along the line of Ben being a cowboy for God.
They knew, imo.
Because LE did not come out of the box announcing foul play does not mean they were not given info by the Tyner family leading them to suspect foul play. Obviously LE had to investigate what they were told.
We all know info LE collects comes from interviews as well as crime scene evidence.
If Jack Tyner told LE Ben had previously told him of problems with John Doe, LE must investigate, they would not be able to arrest JD based on Jack’s info.
Is it not the norm for LE to start their investigation with those closest to the victim? IMO, yes.
I think the Tyner family provided the info to crack this case.
All moo

For me, this ends at the starting point, NR.

ETA:
Tyner’s brother Jack also spoke alongside his tearful parents during the media conference.

“I have difficulty finding the words to express the sadness and loss that our family is feeling. When I look at what Ben accomplished during his short time here I am blown away. He touched so many lives on his way to accomplishing his dreams. That it is truly amazing,” he said in his statement. “His laughter will never ring through our home again. His strong handshake, bear hug and his deep voice are gone, and my family still has no answers; no closure.
'No closure': Family of missing cowboy Ben Tyner appeal for more information in search

If Jack’s statement doesn’t speak volumes, idk what does. Jmo

 

[MistyWaters]

Good Morning Everyone,
Otto, you're asking great questions.
My opinion is that initially, the discussion of tracks or no tracks
leaving the ranch and no tracks around found horse were facts
that were originally brushed over.
If you go back and read the msm articles, RMCP were guessing
about the tracks or no tracks. It didn't sound to me like anyone
really tried to follow tracks early on. Someone said they couldn't follow tracks around the logging area. The mention of someone
trailering the horse to where it was found was because no one
found tracks for any other explanation.
Then the 'trailering of the horse' story grew legs and they went
with it. Not because they had any facts to support that theory but because no one found tracks- I think they missed the boat on
early tracking or someone covered up the tracks leaving the
ranch and there was no good tracker in the logging area, maybe
a bunch of locals, not trackers?

Excellent point, we’re all presuming a truck and trailer was involved but it’s never been stated as fact. Early on LE asked anyone to come forward who might’ve dropped off Ben and his horse with a truck and trailer. But at the same time they also asked if anyone saw somebody riding in an area known as Swakum Ridge on either Saturday or Sunday.

 

[Sillybilly]

Again, I haven't heard any facts leading to the trailering of the horse. I believe they're just speculating on this idea. Without facts to support it.

<rsbm>

I don't think it was based on speculation. Gunny was missing a shoe when found. Wouldn't be hard to trace that track from where he was found to where it presumeably ended at truck and trailer tracks.

 

[MistyWaters]

<rsbm>

I don't think it was based on speculation. Gunny was missing a shoe when found. Wouldn't be hard to trace that track from where he was found to where it presumeably ended at truck and trailer tracks.

You might be thinking of the broken rein, rather than a missing shoe?
“It took me about 20 minutes to get him because he was pretty jumpy — something happened to him. He only had one rein,” Robinson said. “But I caught him and tied him up to a tree.”
UPDATE: Ben Tyner confirmed missing by Nicola Ranch - Merritt Herald

It was reported no tracks were found, unfortunately.

“RCMP dog services and air support as well as members from nine southern B.C. search and rescue teams continue to scour the area but police say active logging and herds of wild horses have obscured possible tracks.“
Merritt-area cattle ranch identifies missing B.C. cowboy as one of its managers