CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #22

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  • #301
Maybe the person contracted to do the killings was not a really good professional,
And, from that same post:

“It could be that whoever hired the killer, used someone close, with underworld or criminal connections, or with experience as a military professional, who had acted as an assassin in the past, who assured the person(s) hiring him that he was very experienced, and could pull it off flawlessly, for a very large amount of money, making it look like a murder suicide.”

This scenario seems plausible to me. MOO. KD, however, seems sure it was done personally by someone close to them. Does he have more inside information? Or is he drawing inferences along the lines of the forensic experts who have weighed in publicly — ie inferences based upon the usual situation when there is murder by strangulation.

One possible way to reconcile these two theories: it was personal/someone close to them- who is both smart and possibly psychopathic, and able to plan and do something like this (and likely had access to calendars, etc.) - but who was aided by a paid associate who purported to have more experience with stuff like this than they actually did. Resulting in an amateur-ish, personal and somewhat bizarre tableau—yet hard to solve. This is where I lean, as a theory. MOO. Speculation.
 
  • #302
HS, MS, BS, JS, and probably more are or weren't nice people. This entire case has no sympathetic figure. The cousins were moochers. I'm not saying Honey and Barry deserved what happened to them but they really had a lot of enemies for the way they treated people.

If the killer truly was hired, he or she must have been really cocky and a bit stupid for sticking around as long as they did in a house where a lot of people were in and out. Honey wanted to see her sister and would have if MS hadn't been under the weather. I think she planned to stop over but the opposite could have happened.
Maybe it has been the norm for years, that nobody ever came to visit unannounced after 9pm and the hitman would have known.
 
  • #303
And, from that same post:

“It could be that whoever hired the killer, used someone close, with underworld or criminal connections, or with experience as a military professional, who had acted as an assassin in the past, who assured the person(s) hiring him that he was very experienced, and could pull it off flawlessly, for a very large amount of money, making it look like a murder suicide.”

This scenario seems plausible to me. MOO. KD, however, seems sure it was done personally by someone close to them. Does he have more inside information? Or is he drawing inferences along the lines of the forensic experts who have weighed in publicly — ie inferences based upon the usual situation when there is murder by strangulation.

One possible way to reconcile these two theories: it was personal/someone close to them- who is both smart and possibly psychopathic, and able to plan and do something like this (and likely had access to calendars, etc.) - but who was aided by a paid associate who purported to have more experience with stuff like this than they actually did. Resulting in an amateur-ish, personal and somewhat bizarre tableau—yet hard to solve. This is where I lean, as a theory. MOO. Speculation.
A good theory to be sure. But I believe KD has voiced his view that the murders were perhaps not planned at all, but happened spontaneously based on perhaps a dispute or argument. I guess no one really knows, but I wish LE did.
 
  • #304
A good theory to be sure. But I believe KD has voiced his view that the murders were perhaps not planned at all, but happened spontaneously based on perhaps a dispute or argument. I guess no one really knows, but I wish LE did.
Did he have that view? Is there a link by any chance? I thought he said he thinks it was personal and not planned much in advance - but not necessarily impromptu.
 
  • #305
That article is a must-read, thank you for linking it.

It’s very long and we’ll-written. Here is some information that was new to me:

“D’Angelo had investments in restaurants, brewing, energy drinks and film production; most were unprofitable. An internal tally prepared by Sherman’s colleagues and reviewed by Businessweek shows that Sherman extended hundreds of low-interest loans to D’Angelo’s company from 2003 to late 2017. Almost nothing was repaid. The individual loans were typically small, often only a few hundred thousand dollars, but the document shows that by the end of Sherman’s life, the total sum was more than C$268 million, including interest.
[…]
With D’Angelo, Sherman took a harder line. “Losses of 500,000 per month appear to be endless. Despite endless assurances that we are now doing well. Where is it all going??” he asked in a September 2017 email. D’Angelo wrote that business “is just coming around. It’s on a tight rope.” Less than two weeks later, D’Angelo copied Sherman on a discussion of revenue shortfalls in his film and drinks businesses. “Our timing is beyond brutal!” he complained. “Our Movie Sicilian Vampire is No. 1 movie on Mexican t.v. & we are in this situation. I’m reading Fox the f---en riot act this Thursday.”

In response, Sherman said he’d had enough of D’Angelo’s requests for cash. “I have been providing funds month after month for years, averaging close to $1 million per month,” he wrote. “Approximately every 2 weeks, I get another request for funds, because some expected revenue is late, but in reality it is to cover endless losses. There have been countless assurances of various good things that were imminent, but almost nothing has materialized.” He continued: “I will not be able to provide further funding beyond the end of this year, so we need to decide what to do with each division individually.”
[…]

Soon after the murders, according to people with knowledge of the matter and correspondence seen by Businessweek, Shechtman began claiming that Honey had intended to leave her hundreds of millions of dollars—much or even all the money Sherman had been moving to transfer to his wife. Shechtman repeated the claim over the following months and also requested other assets, including jewelry and real estate. Honey “wanted me and my children to get everything of hers,” Shechtman wrote in one email. “She knew the value of her entire estate would be minimal compared to what you and your siblings would inherit and none of you would need it financially.” (A representative for Shechtman declined to comment.)
[…]
Alexandra, four people with knowledge of her views said, had begun to think Jonathon might have been involved in their parents’ deaths. It’s unclear what drove her to that suspicion, and the police, according to the person with knowledge of their investigation, didn’t view it as being based on any evidence.”

Ugh- a vent. This F D'A character really bugs me. The gall! (paraphrased) We are now doing well despite massive losses. 258 million owing to BS at the time of his death. "I'm reading Fox the f--king riot act this Thursday." because they are in this situation despite Sicilian Vampire being #1 in Mexico. Finally BS saying, No can do anymore.
Thinking his daughters would have only 6+ months old, I would bet dollars to a hole in a donut that F D,A would have thought BS would have funded his kids ongoing.
 
  • #306
Did he have that view? Is there a link by any chance? I thought he said he thinks it was personal and not planned much in advance - but not necessarily impromptu.
Yes sorry that’s close enough to what I meant
 
  • #307
Ugh- a vent. This F D'A character really bugs me. The gall! (paraphrased) We are now doing well despite massive losses. 258 million owing to BS at the time of his death. "I'm reading Fox the f--king riot act this Thursday." because they are in this situation despite Sicilian Vampire being #1 in Mexico. Finally BS saying, No can do anymore.
Thinking his daughters would have only 6+ months old, I would bet dollars to a hole in a donut that F D,A would have thought BS would have funded his kids ongoing.
JK who worked with BS for around 30 years helping BS build Apotex into a multi-billion dollar business and who knew about all of this, how would he have felt that BS may have given FDA more than he ever got from helping BS build up Apotex?
 
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  • #308
JK who worked with BS for around 30 years helping BS build Apotex into a multi-billion dollar business and who knew about all of this, how would he have felt that BS may have given FDA more than he ever got from helping BS build up Apotex?
I would be absolutely gobsmacked if JK had anything to do with this. His grief was genuine.
 
  • #309
A good theory to be sure. But I believe KD has voiced his view that the murders were perhaps not planned at all, but happened spontaneously based on perhaps a dispute or argument. I guess no one really knows, but I wish LE did.
to happen conveniently on a day they were to be alone ..and at that timing and with some door or window open
def not...this was planned all the way
also who killed was a killer ..not someone doing something at the heat of the moment and thought why not stage them that way just like that !
 
  • #310
HS, MS, BS, JS, and probably more are or weren't nice people. This entire case has no sympathetic figure. The cousins were moochers. I'm not saying Honey and Barry deserved what happened to them but they really had a lot of enemies for the way they treated people.

If the killer truly was hired, he or she must have been really cocky and a bit stupid for sticking around as long as they did in a house where a lot of people were in and out. Honey wanted to see her sister and would have if MS hadn't been under the weather. I think she planned to stop over but the opposite could have happened.
read several articles about this and between the financing of relatives, grown kids with financial needs and wants, and lawsuits and corporate fighting and politics, the number of people who might have wanted this or benefited from it was a lot.... difficult to imagine that they were both forced into the pool area and restrained without the use of a weapon and even then it seems like a lot of compliance from both of them if there was only one killer. I just do not see them, even at their ages, as agreeing to being tied up IMO.
 
  • #311
I would be absolutely gobsmacked if JK had anything to do with this. His grief was genuine.
My point is more relating to the fact that it seemed that BS and JK were the Apotex money makers and many of the others were the money consumers, money takers, money spenders, money squanderers, money burners, money scammers, money wasters, money donators, etc.
 
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  • #312
to happen conveniently on a day they were to be alone ..and at that timing and with some door or window open
def not...this was planned all the way
also who killed was a killer ..not someone doing something at the heat of the moment and thought why not stage them that way just like that !
They had to have some prior experience in restraining and subduing people as well as some physical strength for it be done by one person. If the person was known to them, it would have been easier to have gained their trust and caught them off guard. It could have been one of those unexpected surprise moments of "Hey what are you doing here? Aren't you supposed to be somewhere else?"
 
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  • #313
Ugh- a vent. This F D'A character really bugs me. The gall! (paraphrased) We are now doing well despite massive losses. 258 million owing to BS at the time of his death. "I'm reading Fox the f--king riot act this Thursday." because they are in this situation despite Sicilian Vampire being #1 in Mexico. Finally BS saying, No can do anymore.
Thinking his daughters would have only 6+ months old, I would bet dollars to a hole in a donut that F D,A would have thought BS would have funded his kids ongoing.
Wasn't FDA's Christmas party on the night of December 12, 2017? Somehow BS and HS couldn't make it even though it seems that they weren't really busy that night. I don't really know how them seeing the new house architects on December 13, 2017 resulted in them not being able to make it to FDA's party on December 12, 2017.
 
  • #314
They had to have some prior experience in restraining and subduing people as well as some physical strength for it be done by one person. If the person was known to them, it would have been easier to have gained their trust and caught them off guard. It could have been one of those unexpected surprise moments of "Hey what are you doing here? Aren't you supposed to be somewhere else?"
I have often wondered if BS & HS knew the person, they may have not had any guard up at first. If they had a weapon to threaten them with, again if they knew them they would be asking questions and IMO trying to defuse the situation and would "walk the plank" (long hallway to the pool) in disbelief this was happening.

Or possibly HS was bound and subdued1/2 hour before BS arrived

Or possibly they had HS tie BS hands or vice versa.

They were both subdued for a reason, and the ties were taken from the scene, was this so LE would not see the bands were not tied in the same manner?, had DNA on them?, the jackets were left tight on the arms to restrict movement even when they were staged to hang, the jacket pulled down the arms also could be a way to quickly get control of someone unexpectedly and then tie the hands?

I still think gun was used to frighten and control, not intended to be used to kill anyone. Guns and the bullets can be traced, ligatures not so easy to trace back to someone.
 
  • #315
Wasn't FDA's Christmas party on the night of December 12, 2017? Somehow BS and HS couldn't make it even though it seems that they weren't really busy that night. I don't really know how them seeing the new house architects on December 13, 2017 resulted in them not being able to make it to FDA's party on December 12, 2017.
originally the Tuesday night was dinner at daughter Alex's home, but HS had not had time to make the special allergy specific treats for the grandkids, this date got moved to Friday, the day HS was planning to make the food with the staff helper, the day they were found.
 
  • #316
And, from that same post:

“It could be that whoever hired the killer, used someone close, with underworld or criminal connections, or with experience as a military professional, who had acted as an assassin in the past, who assured the person(s) hiring him that he was very experienced, and could pull it off flawlessly, for a very large amount of money, making it look like a murder suicide.”

This scenario seems plausible to me. MOO. KD, however, seems sure it was done personally by someone close to them. Does he have more inside information? Or is he drawing inferences along the lines of the forensic experts who have weighed in publicly — ie inferences based upon the usual situation when there is murder by strangulation.

One possible way to reconcile these two theories: it was personal/someone close to them- who is both smart and possibly psychopathic, and able to plan and do something like this (and likely had access to calendars, etc.) - but who was aided by a paid associate who purported to have more experience with stuff like this than they actually did. Resulting in an amateur-ish, personal and somewhat bizarre tableau—yet hard to solve. This is where I lean, as a theory. MOO. Speculation.
I think you've presented the best way to reconcile KD's theories with my own personal take. KD thinks it was done by someone personally known to the victims. I don't have the citation, but I believe he also indicated he thinks there is more than one person there?

I find it really hard to imagine that the crime was personally committed by someone known to H and B. Commissioned yes, committed no. These are soft-handed people. They shoot sporting clays, not deer. I realize that strangulation is often associated with domestic violence murderers, who act in a fit of rage, and serial killers, who want the contact/control with the victim. But I also associate strangulation with certain types of trained killers--Mossad, Special Forces, etc. It is not a quick or quiet death, and it's really hard for me to imagine someone from the Shermans' milieu personally and cold-bloodedly strangling two elderly people on a premeditated basis. But it's easier to envision someone like that commissioning the deaths, scheduling the set-up, and letting a contracted professional into the house. But if that is the case, why is there only one walking man?
 
  • #317
Wasn't FDA's Christmas party on the night of December 12, 2017? Somehow BS and HS couldn't make it even though it seems that they weren't really busy that night. I don't really know how them seeing the new house architects on December 13, 2017 resulted in them not being able to make it to FDA's party on December 12, 2017.

It was an annual lunch held at FDA’s restaurant on Tuesday, Barry said he couldn’t make it.

The architect meeting was supposed to be held at the same time at some point, but Honey moved it to Wednesday. Barry ended up having lunch with Brad on Tuesday.
 
  • #318
originally the Tuesday night was dinner at daughter Alex's home, but HS had not had time to make the special allergy specific treats for the grandkids, this date got moved to Friday, the day HS was planning to make the food with the staff helper, the day they were found.
I believe the FDA event was a lunchtime event at his restaurant
 
  • #319
I believe the FDA event was a lunchtime event at his restaurant
Hard to imagine BS enjoying this, imo.
2011 rbibm.
BEN SPURR
''And then midway through his second interview, Frank passes over to the dark side.

One of the crew steps on the set’s curtain, bringing it crashing down. It’s the kind of thing that’s bound to happen when you cram a talk show set into a restaurant basement.

Taping stops while gaffers make repairs, and Frank unleashes a string of insults on the offending crewmember. Because Frank keeps a smile plastered to his face, at first it seems like good-natured ribbing. But nearly an hour later, he’s still telling the crew that he’s going to “Velcro your asses” and make them eat 🤬🤬🤬🤬. He lashes out at the sound guy, the band, the people he can hear whispering backstage. He takes every lull in the on-air conversation as an opportunity to insult someone who works for him, all while trying very hard to pretend it’s just a joke. He repeatedly issues thinly veiled threats to kill the guy who stepped on the curtain.

It’s difficult to avoid the conclusion that Frank is drawing from a deep well of anger and insecurity, and that there’s plenty more where that came from. In a way it’s like Frank is the eighth grade bully who never grew up, or that the only two weapons in his social arsenal are obsequious charm and vengeful insults.

But that’s not how Frank sees it. He says he’s just having fun. After the show’s over he puts his arm around me and asks if I saw how well he held his composure after the crewmember stepped on the curtain. I choke on my reply.''
 
  • #320
Wasn't FDA's Christmas party on the night of December 12, 2017? Somehow BS and HS couldn't make it even though it seems that they weren't really busy that night. I don't really know how them seeing the new house architects on December 13, 2017 resulted in them not being able to make it to FDA's party on December 12, 2017.
IIRC, Honey and Barry’s meeting with the architects was originally conflicting with FDA’s Christmas party, which I believe was a luncheon. I believe that the meeting with the architects was then rescheduled to its actual time on Wednesday, late afternoon. I don’t know why Barry did not then attend Frank’s luncheon. My guess is that it was 11th hour and he’d already declined. Speculation MOO
 
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