CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #22

[MerlinFalcon]

but lets not forget.. they had no interest to see the video to start with untill the ppl basically begged
why should I believe them when they say anything here
ill trust when there is any reason for that

If they thought it was double murder right off the bat I think they would have been really interested in the videos in the neighbourhood. So much was lost because they think Barry killed both of them.

 

[ldlager]

IMO revealing the identity of and details of the person at the door would embarrass the TPS. So they remain silent

 

[sandy_80]

IMO revealing the identity of and details of the person at the door would embarrass the TPS. So they remain silent

delphi invistigation comes to mind.. eventually they were exposed when dude was caught
..

i found this

In its reporting on the bid to knock down the house, CTV stumbled upon what could be that very thing—a previously unreported, potentially key piece of evidence. In canvassing the neighbourhood for reaction, a reporter interviewed a woman who chose not to appear on camera or make her name public. She revealed that she handed over surveillance video to police that showed a car sitting in the Shermans’ driveway on Dec. 14, a day before the bodies were found and a day after the couple was last reported seen alive. In it, a man was seen “sometimes sitting in his car for up to 15 minutes, then going inside” the house.


A new, hidden clue in Barry and Honey Shermans' vanishing murder case - Macleans.ca

if I am correct ..this report is ten days earlier than the star/kd

 

[Lexiintoronto]

delphi invistigation comes to mind.. eventually they were exposed when dude was caught
..

i found this

In its reporting on the bid to knock down the house, CTV stumbled upon what could be that very thing—a previously unreported, potentially key piece of evidence. In canvassing the neighbourhood for reaction, a reporter interviewed a woman who chose not to appear on camera or make her name public. She revealed that she handed over surveillance video to police that showed a car sitting in the Shermans’ driveway on Dec. 14, a day before the bodies were found and a day after the couple was last reported seen alive. In it, a man was seen “sometimes sitting in his car for up to 15 minutes, then going inside” the house.


A new, hidden clue in Barry and Honey Shermans' vanishing murder case - Macleans.ca

if I am correct ..this report is ten days earlier than the star/kd

I think that’s the only report where they clearly identify the neighbour’s home and show the cameras. Sherman family wants to demolish mansion where Toronto billionaires murdered

I may have mentioned this before, but when I lived in East York one year we had a rash of break-ins. The robber became more brazen each time. He kicked the side door of my next-door neighbour’s house just after her husband left for work.

It turned out that the homeowners of the break-ins employed the same person that shoveled snow in the area. (It wasn’t the snow-shoveler. It was someone connected to him.)

That always made me wonder who regularly cleared the Shermans’ snow. It seems like only part of the driveway was heated, and half of the ramp’s heater was broken. The housekeepers were at the home on Wednesdays and Fridays, so who cleared it when they weren’t there? Barry?

 

[SPetty]

I dont understand how KD isnt raising questions about this bizzare male subject who enters the house three times and stays there a long time in a location of a crime scene ..while the victims lay dead
all le tells you..we know about him..we invstigated him but we wont tell you anything
how we know this person didnt manipolate the crime scene
he isnt le.. he isnt family.. he isnt someone who worked for them or we would have known
whats going on here

Where is the definitive news story on this. Must have missed it or read the wrong thing

 

[sandy_80]

Where is the definitive news story on this. Must have missed it or read the wrong thing

PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions

note how le doesnt deny this person was inside the house ?! making KD thoery even weaker
what could be the purpose of going there and back to the car anyway
waiting for contact or orders from another person ?
collecting items from inside or outside the crime scene ?
waiting for a signal ?
clearing the crime scene ?
till they tell us who is this and what they were doing there by physical evidence.. id say all i listed is very valid

 

[MerlinFalcon]

PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions

note how le doesnt deny this person was inside the house ?! making KD thoery even weaker
what could be the purpose of going there and back to the car anyway
waiting for contact or orders from another person ?
collecting items from inside or outside the crime scene ?
waiting for a signal ?
clearing the crime scene ?
till they tell us who is this and what they were doing there by physical evidence.. id say all i listed is very valid

I think that's the first time I've seen something that says he went inside. So was he the one to break the front door lock? I still think it was a cop responding to the 911 call but who knows?

 

[newclues]

I think that's the first time I've seen something that says he went inside. So was he the one to break the front door lock? I still think it was a cop responding to the 911 call but who knows?

If they had an alarm, wouldn't they have it connected with a security company?

 

[MerlinFalcon]

If they had an alarm, wouldn't they have it connected with a security company?

When the housekeeper came in the next morning it was off.

 

[newclues]

When the housekeeper came in the next morning it was off.

Sometimes security companies make a property check.

 

[dotr]

re-post snippets..rbbm

29 minutes inside Barry and Honey Sherman’s home: Who was the visitor?

While the Shermans lay dead in the basement pool room of their Toronto home a lone man went in and out of their house three times, according to an account of security camera footage seized by Toronto police.

www.thestar.com

March 2019
''While Barry and Honey Sherman lay dead in the basement of their Toronto home, a lone man went in and out of their house three times, according to an account of security camera footage seized by Toronto police.
Between 9:11 a.m. and 10:16 a.m. on Dec. 14, 2017, the man walked from a four-door sedan parked in front of the Sherman house on Old Colony Rd., appeared to enter the house through the front door, then came back outside. He did this three times, for a total of 29 minutes inside the Sherman home, before driving off.
Who was he? What was he doing? Have police spoken to him?''


“We have always been interested in (the video footage),” Greenspan said. “All I can tell you is what we see. When you try to improve on the very grainy security camera footage it pixelates. We are sort of stuck with the grainy footage.”

''At 9:11 a.m. a dark-coloured four-door sedan driving west on Old Colony Rd. stops and parks immediately in front of the Sherman house. It does not drive into the circular driveway. Three minutes after the car is parked, a man gets out and at 9:14 a.m. he walks to the Sherman house and enters through the front door. He remains in the house for 12 minutes.
At 9:26 a.m., the man emerges from the house, walks back to his car and gets in. He remains in the car for just under 11 minutes, then gets out of his car, walks back to the house and enters through the front door at 9:37 a.m. This time he remains in the house for eight minutes.
At 9:45 a.m., the man walks back to his car. This time he stays in his car for about 21 minutes, before walking back to the house and entering through the front door at 10:06 a.m. He remains in the house for nine minutes, then emerges, gets into his car and drives slowly west towards Bayview Ave. at 10:16 a.m.
The positioning of the two CCTV cameras that caught this activity do not show the licence plate and the images are blurry — you cannot make out the face of the man.''


''Six weeks after police obtained a copy of the homeowners’ video, a detective from the homicide squad made an appointment to speak to the homeowners and came to their house on Jan. 25, 2018. The detective brought with her two photos, one showing a couple walking a dog and the other a lone woman. These photos were shown to the homeowners with no explanation, except that they were taken from other security cameras in the area.
The homeowners did not recognize the individual in either photo, but they did remark that on Monday, Dec. 11, in the early evening hours, they had noticed a man and a woman they did not recognize walking on the street. The homeowners’ videotape from the Monday, which was turned over to police and private detectives, apparently does show a man and a woman (the woman is wearing a long coat and the man is tall) entering the Sherman home at 8:20 p.m. that day. ''

 

[Lexiintoronto]

PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions

note how le doesnt deny this person was inside the house ?! making KD thoery even weaker
what could be the purpose of going there and back to the car anyway
waiting for contact or orders from another person ?
collecting items from inside or outside the crime scene ?
waiting for a signal ?
clearing the crime scene ?
till they tell us who is this and what they were doing there by physical evidence.. id say all i listed is very valid

I think that's the first time I've seen something that says he went inside. So was he the one to break the front door lock? I still think it was a cop responding to the 911 call but who knows?

The article is from March of 2019, the information is outdated. KD has since reported that it’s unclear whether the Thursday visitor entered or not.

 

[FPoulet]

I agree that the most recent reporting is that it’s unclear whether or not the person entered the home. This said, it seems unlikely that someone would stand at the door for 12 minutes straight, and then again and again for material blocks of minutes. Waiting that long for someone to answer the door and never emerging into the camera view for even a second? I think it’s highly unlikely. MOO.

So who was this person and why did they (potentially) enter the home multiple times while also waiting in their car for long periods?

They didn’t seem concerned about being seen or their car being seen. That fact makes the whole episode seem less suspicious. MOO.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

When it says officers were promoted, the public does not understand the LE promotional process. Every officer is entitled to enter the promotional process provided they have passed the previous one. ie. an officer can enter the sargents promotional process if he has written and passed the Sgt’s exam, then an interview takes place…a Sgt can enter an Inspectors promotional process provided he has written and passed the Inspectors exam and holds a rank of Sgt and goes thru the interview process,and so on. a Sgt could wait for eons to get to rank of Inspector after passing the Inspectors exam, and going thru interview process. Promotions aren’t dished out by outstanding work alone. You must be eligible for it.
Is it a fair process? Probably, esp In this day and age when cya is most important with watchdogs everywhere.
LE isn’t saying who this person is for a reason. Maybe as simple as one of their own in a plain clothes car, stumbling on a crime scene without even knowing it. Are they covering one of their own hot dogs from bumbling a simple 911 follow up call. Maybe not doing due diligence by doing an accurate property check, maybe entering a premise without reason or not being in pursuit. (And missing the bodies)Definite more egg on LE face??

Thank you for sharing your knowledge here, this is very good to understand the true process. I would also expect that most positions are fulfilled by advancement of staff and not outside of the profession hiring non experienced team members.

"Maybe as simple as one of their own in a plain clothes car,"

I would expect LE would say as much if this were the actual case here? Why not state it was a LE resource and then sweep it under the rug, but telling the public to not worry about it because LE knows about it, within a case that the public already feels LE messed it up, IMO makes it look worse or questionable.

IMO, The defensiveness that Saunders displayed in his speeches/media news updates accompanied with the arrogance he has to tell the public to trust him, period, with no reasonable information published and that they are well aware of what the person was up to and then share no details at all, that is so unsettling for me. No wonder some have questioned if a cop/past cop is very close to or involved in the crime themselves, and coverup of certain information/facts/details is now mixed in with the investigations.

 

[AddyFinch]

Discussed this on the weekend with some folks who had a different perspective. I'll list in point form so it's not 'rambling"
- person at door (x3) was the killer.
LE have nothing to charge him with.
-Person at door had valid reason to be there... snow plow, realtor photographer, security system company etc etc. If his fingerprints were found, DNA etc, his defence is..."I accidentally contaminated the scene, hence my prints were found". Would need to add his prints to list of all others rambling around that residence before and after murders.
Did he volunteer prints or DNA to LE ? (idiot if he did). Could he have entered house and tried to reset alarm system, and went back to car to call it in and see if system reset? Ok, maybe he needed to do it twice, but 3x??? If system wouldn't reset, you would think he would have a wander around to see if any doors were ajar or tripped?? Would he call LE at this point and report alarm malfunctioning. Did he and LE respond with "too busy to attend" (if bodies were in basement, then he did contaminate scene)
If this person is a suspect not publicly identified, then are LE tailing him, doing wire taps ??? For 6 years... and nada????
-person at the door the follow up man? Job is done, stager of bodies, collector of cash?
-person at door is a plain clothes cop following up on the tardy 911 call
-staging of body is unlikely done by a professional hitman
-staging of body is personal and probably done by accomplice or local hitman
-what type of locks did house have? Key, digital, tumbler, all relevant in questioning how the person entered house. Was that ever identified?
-Security camera turned off. Who did that and why? Was it a self monitoring system,or controlled by outside company? Who knew where equipment was located? Why did they know that? How was it turned off, by coding or yanking plug? If it was an outside monitoring company was it the same one that Apotex uses?
-the biggy... how come there is a video of this person x3 at the house, but not the killer? Where are all the other neighbourhood cameras? Did the neighbours willingly talk to LE and turn over their videos, or were they reluctant to talk to LE? Did they have an axe to grind with the BS & HS, and are withholding evidence? And how many security systems saves those videos for that length of time? Most only save for short period of time. Did LE have this video all this time, but not saying that?
And lastly... the story of the "urban explorer is quite simply put, b.s.... Urban Explorers photograph decayed and ruined buildings not an old murder scene of a 40 year old house, the destruction of that house is key to this investigation. Very key. I will reiterate... very key. There was evidence in that house someone didn't want discovered, now gone.
-As to the 35 million dollar reward... very safe to do so, as they know it will never be claimed.
... So the general consensus was . Hired hit, probably local... House destroyed to destroy any possible evidence missed.. HS grabbed from behind, ligature of some sort used, 4 min of very close personal pressure, body removed from area, so as not to alert BS. Process repeated when BS arrived home. Second person there or arrived later, dragged bodies to pool area, positioned. But why? Doubtful hitman had a sadistic streak towards these two people. His job was a kill and nothing more. If there was a second person, they added the personal touch.
Sorry for the long post.

 

[AddyFinch]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge here, this is very good to understand the true process. I would also expect that most positions are fulfilled by advancement of staff and not outside of the profession hiring non experienced team members.

"Maybe as simple as one of their own in a plain clothes car,"

I would expect LE would say as much if this were the actual case here? Why not state it was a LE resource and then sweep it under the rug, but telling the public to not worry about it because LE knows about it, within a case that the public already feels LE messed it up, IMO makes it look worse or questionable.

IMO, The defensiveness that Saunders displayed in his speeches/media news updates accompanied with the arrogance he has to tell the public to trust him, period, with no reasonable information published and that they are well aware of what the person was up to and then share no details at all, that is so unsettling for me. No wonder some have questioned if a cop/past cop is very close to or involved in the crime themselves, and coverup of certain information/facts/details is now mixed in with the investigations.

Well said!

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Pretty sure Goodmans were working for Apotex, not the estates/executors.

The estate executors would have some access to materials in Hendler’s file. This paper discusses privilege as it pertains to estate files following the death of the testator.

https://www.fillmoreriley.com/docs/default-source/lawyer-publications/solicitor-client-privilege-in-estate-litigation.pdf?sfvrsn=ebd1894b_1

I think we can assume that the police have a working knowledge of what was in the file, but absent a trial it is unlikely to ever be disclosed publicly.

The only way I can see Goodmans involved with the Blaney emails of HS, are if she used an Apotex email address and it is secured via the Apotex email systems and would fall under Goodmans Lawyer advice.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I agree that the most recent reporting is that it’s unclear whether or not the person entered the home. This said, it seems unlikely that someone would stand at the door for 12 minutes straight, and then again and again for material blocks of minutes. Waiting that long for someone to answer the door and never emerging into the camera view for even a second? I think it’s highly unlikely. MOO.

So who was this person and why did they (potentially) enter the home multiple times while also waiting in their car for long periods?

They didn’t seem concerned about being seen or their car being seen. That fact makes the whole episode seem less suspicious. MOO.

It was very cold that morning. If they were at the front door waiting for an answer they may have gone back to their car to warm up. If they went into the home, why go out to the car a few times and sit in there?

Going into the home seems possible, and makes more sense, (and police didn’t deny it) but it’s an unknown right now.

 

[AddyFinch]

I agree that the most recent reporting is that it’s unclear whether or not the person entered the home. This said, it seems unlikely that someone would stand at the door for 12 minutes straight, and then again and again for material blocks of minutes. Waiting that long for someone to answer the door and never emerging into the camera view for even a second? I think it’s highly unlikely. MOO.

So who was this person and why did they (potentially) enter the home multiple times while also waiting in their car for long periods?

They didn’t seem concerned about being seen or their car being seen. That fact makes the whole episode seem less suspicious. MOO.

yes I agree, but.. could be novice..."make it look normal Joey, pretend your the security company". Heck, he could be yelling into the house "are you finished yet" (the possible theory there was a second person to stage the bodies). All of these suggestions seems quite hilarious when looked at from this lengthy date, but the bungling of a hit, or the bungling of LE in their duties is a thought. It happens.
I do think the LE if they have nothing re the person who enters 3x, then they need to tell public, as this drama does create distrust with the public. We don't need their name just how they fit into the picture.

 

[FPoulet]

It was very cold that morning. If they were at the front door waiting for an answer they may have gone back to their car to warm up. If they went into the home, why go out to the car a few times and sit in there?

Going into the home seems possible, and makes more sense, (and police didn’t deny it) but it’s an unknown right now.

I just can’t fathom anyone waiting that long for an answer at a door.

It’s possible they were trying to call Honey or Barry or whomever they were meant to meet from their car. Do the call records show this?

It’s also possible they were talking to somebody else on the phone — to either get instructions, or to kill time while waiting for whomever they were supposed to meet.

If it was about getting instructions, or related to the murder, they may not want to have a conversation in the house that could somehow be recorded inadvertently.

Speculation /Moo