Canada - Bruce McArthur charged in murders of six men, Toronto, 2010-2017

[RosalindaA]

He was able to drive with epilepsy? I guess he hadn't had a seizure in a long time. I have some experience with epilepsy and know that sometimes one can go into a petit mal seizure and lose memory of what was said,etc. I've seen complete personality changes when this happened as well.

Interesting about the epilepsy. Many moons ago I worked with a patient whose diagnosis was (I think) frontal lobe epilepsy with complex partial seizures. He could become extremely aggressive and would roam about for hours in a trance-like state with bad language, slurred speech and odd, repetitive motor actions. His balance would be terrible and to people who didn't know him he would probably have appeared to be drunk.

This would carry on until he would fall asleep naturally or we could get near enough to persuade him to take some tranquilizers. In spite of him once telling me where he'd like to put a knife in me, he was one of my favourite ever patients as he was an absolute sweetie when well and a very funny man. Although he was on high levels of anti-convulsants we couldn't completely control the epilepsy.

Sadly, he had a significant learning disability as well so he couldn't really articulate what his experience of these episodes was. But in no way could he ever have carried out any actions that needed any planning or complex thinking while in that state. Would I have testified that he wouldn't be responsible for his actions in that state - absolutely.

But then I have never seen anyone without a learning disability with this type of epilepsy, but in no way would I think it could be a defence for a calculating serial killer, there's just too much conscious organization, deceit and concealment going on. The last thing you would be would be an "efficient" and "competent" murderer.

 

[AddyFinch]

Exactly. Very organized.
I wonder if he had temp burial spots for victoms, then moved them around at later dates until the six ended up on Mallory?

 

[lilymoon]

Good question dotr.

Its used for various things, some of which could be faked. i.e. insomnia or anxiety

When a doctor suspects epilepsy, one is sent to a neurologist for extensive testing to see what they're dealing with, so not as easy to fake. They use brain waves etc. (or they used to, not sure of more recent testing) so thats an electrical pattern in ones brain.

It sounds as if he had psychiatric reports at the time, had some awareness that he 'might' have harmed someone.......maybe he's moved along to full blown psychotic episodes.

Your link to the article is good though, as we know he liked to use poppers, so wasn't averse to drug use.

MOO

In my professional experience, I have seen folks take anti-seizure meds (as only prescribed by their physicians) as both in treatment for epilepsy as well as in therapeutic treatments for mood stabilization (i.e., bipolar disorder). However, given the side effects of Dilantin (teeth issues and gum overgrowth), I cannot recall ever seeing Dilantin solely prescribed for mood disorders; only prescribed for seizure control.

 

[Maple]

Exactly. Very organized.
I wonder if he had temp burial spots for victoms, then moved them around at later dates until the six ended up on Mallory?

That is an interesting theory that he had temp burial spots and then moved them.

 

[Maple]

Is anyone else wondering how the Scarborough and Madaoc property owners (BH) and his brother (RH; who is also a landscaper) are connected to the case? BH is said to be living abroad (Ireland?)

Per CBC report, LE removed a grey/silver truck from the Scarborough location. Whose truck was it? Was it a crime scene?
So many questions...

 

[JDG]

Is anyone else wondering how the Scarborough and Madaoc property owners (BH) and his brother (RH; who is also a landscaper) are connected to the case? BH is said to be living abroad (Ireland?)

Per CBC report, LE removed a grey/silver truck from the Scarborough location. Whose truck was it? Was it a crime scene?
So many questions...

I thought those properties had been thoroughly searched, then released by police.
Would assume the vehicles had nothing to do with BM if thats the case. IMO

All of that information is way back on the threads but Det. Idsinga did respond about Madoc the other day, saying it had nothing to do with the case plus above.

 

[Jasper52]

I don't think he would be at all concerned about driving restrictions if this is whats wrong. Probably unaware of reality?

According to the NIH case study, its treatable. That would mean, IF proven true, these murders could have probably have been avoided by treatment of the perp.

Matou, just looked up DOT, 6 months free of seizures and you get your licence back.
Lots of variations but usual is 6 months.

Wow, I waited for over 5 years to get my license back. During that time, I underwent all kinds of tests etc. I was livid as I only ever had one while standing, never while sitting. I would never drive knowing I could put somebodies life in danger.

 

[JDG]

edited

 

[JDG]

edited

 

[Maple]

Thanks, JDG. I did come across news source indicating that the owner of the Scarborough and Madoc house is cooperating with LE and is not a suspect at this time.

 

[JDG]

If you look at the Toronto Sun online edition. Theres an article that may help explain BMs psychological state.
I refuse to repeat the words in the headline, they aren't words appropriate for a website.
BUT, IF true, they show he may have a lot of self hatred.

They do change the online edition frequently but this one will probably be there until tomorrow.

 

[matou]

James revealed that McArthur’s well-known 2003 banishment from the area for assaulting a male prostitute was just the tip of the iceberg.


He had also been booted from the Second Cup on Church St.


“He told me, ‘I was doing something I wasn’t supposed to and I was asked to leave’,” James recounted. That’s when McArthur’s volcanic temper exploded and he allegedly took his arm and knocked all the glass jars on the counter to the floor.

http://torontosun.com/news/local-ne...e-mcarthur-to-pal-im-tired-of-these-f-******s

 

[Maple]

While his anger and rage speak better to his psychological state, his self-hatred speaks to internalized homophobia.
But, being a serial killer who carefully covered his tracks and committed multiple murders across a span of time requires a completely different mental state.

 

[dotr]

:stormingmad:This is probably my first time to use this emoji.
From the Toronto Sun, trying to avoid the word in the link.

“(McArthur) told me his son didn’t accept the fact that he was gay,” James said from Montreal, where he now lives.

“He wasn’t really out and it was a struggle for him.”
But at this point, there were a lot of whispers about the rotund accused killer.

When people in the community spotted James being friendly to McArthur, he was given a friendly warning: Stay away from that guy.

“I thought he was a friendly guy, he was a bear, but when people saw me talking to him they later told me he was a little off and they told me to be careful,” James said.

But when he ran into McArthur, who asked him out for coffee, the former hairdresser at House of Lords rebuffed him.

“He started freaking out, ‘Why don’t you like me?’ he said and turned red and became more and more upset,” James added. “I told him I didn’t want coffee and had heard disturbing stories about him.”

McArthur exploded in a gay-bashing tirade.

Why do they hate me so much?’ It was clear he had anger issues,” James said, adding, “then he screamed at me: ‘You’re just like the rest of them, you think I’m crazy.’”And from what he knew, sexual encounters with McArthur never ended well.

 

[nuff]

:stormingmad:This is probably my first time to use this emoji.
From the Toronto Sun, trying to avoid the word in the link.

Misprint / typo (I hope!) in the final word of the article. "Palatable"?? I think they meant "palpable".

 

[lilymoon]

In Abdulbasir Faizi's 2010 missing persons case, it was reported his car was located on Moore Avenue. This is coincidentally, not too far from the crime scene at Mallory Crescent. No doubt, LE is investigating this.

 

[lilymoon]

Is there a possibility of a pattern emerging across most of the missing persons involved in this murder investigation (to date); as well as the 2001 assault charge: Canadian Holidays and Toronto Events?

Several of the missing persons were reported to be last seen on or around major holidays/ TO events including the assault charge.

• Halloween: (Oct 31 2001) - Assault charge
• Labor Day: (Sep 06 2010) - SN reported last seen
• Christmas/NY's: (Dec 29 2010) - AF reported last seen
• Good Friday: (Apr 14 2017) - SE reported last seen
• TO Pride: (Jun 26 2017) - AK reported last seen

*Cannot link a holiday to the reported disappearances to either MK (Oct 18 2012) or SM (Aug 15 2015) yet; perhaps an event in the Village? Also cannot make a link to DL due to lack of data on his disappearance or confirmed date when last seen.

Also, based only on LE's murder charges (to date), no charges laid that coincide with the Project Houston investigation (Nov 2012 - Apr 2014). Was this a forced-choice cooling off period for BM?

 

[lilymoon]

I'm new here and haven't yet had a chance to read all the comments posted, but does anyone know if LE has specified whether they have found Selim Esen's remains, and if so, whether it was found at the Mallory property? I ask because CBC reported back in mid Jan that LE "removed several plastic crates and bins, along with a grey suitcase" and there is a photo of Mr. Selim with a silver/grey suitcase and LE "say he's often seen with the silver suitcase."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/bruce-mcarthur-murder-scarborough-kinsman-1.4496406

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/police-t...disappearance-of-two-men-in-toronto-1.3522834

In regards to the suitcase: Based on photographs shared by media, would appear to be 2 very different suitcases.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/bruce-mc-arthur-properties-search-toronto-1.4497067

 

[dotr]

Misprint / typo (I hope!) in the final word of the article. "Palatable"?? I think they meant "palpable".

It seems to have since been corrected. Maybe "palatable" was a Freudian slip?
imo.
It was too late to edit my anger emoji above, but wanted to clarify that it was directed at BM for his alleged rude comment.

 

[dotr]

Is there a possibility of a pattern emerging across most of the missing persons involved in this murder investigation (to date); as well as the 2001 assault charge: Canadian Holidays and Toronto Events?

Several of the missing persons were reported to be last seen on or around major holidays/ TO events including the assault charge.

• Halloween: (Oct 31 2001) - Assault charge
• Labor Day: (Sep 06 2010) - SN reported last seen
• Christmas/NY's: (Dec 29 2010) - AF reported last seen
• Good Friday: (Apr 14 2017) - SE reported last seen
• TO Pride: (Jun 26 2017) - AK reported last seen

*Cannot link a holiday to the reported disappearances to either MK (Oct 18 2012) or SM (Aug 15 2015) yet; perhaps an event in the Village? Also cannot make a link to DL due to lack of data on his disappearance or confirmed date when last seen.

Also, based only on LE's murder charges (to date), no charges laid that coincide with the Project Houston investigation (Nov 2012 - Apr 2014). Was this a forced-choice cooling off period for BM?

Noted by poster unscripted in 2013, lots more early information and discussion here.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?211457-3-men-missing-in-same-Toronto-ON-neighborhood-2010-2012
[h=2]3 men missing in same Toronto ON neighborhood, 2010-2012[/h]