Canada - Bruce McArthur- Pleads Guilty - murders of 8 men, Toronto, 2010-2017 #2

[cstewart0985]

Maybe because there is no right hand. (That's what it sounds like.)

What bothers me is that there is a police board that is supposed to oversee them. When that fails, the mayor should be next. What happens when the mayor sits on the police board and openly backs the TPS chief? How does any positive change happen when this is the system?


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[Satchie]

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. This is an excellent example.

RSBM

IMO, based on the above, all current murder charges could easily fit into this pattern of escalation across the 15 years (2010 - SK; 2012 - MK; 2015 - SM; 2016 - DL; 2017 - SE & AK)

Thanks for this post. It seems worth contemplating, if he'd been murdering men for decades, would the 2001 arrest have gone quite differently...

I was thinking about whether he really has done this before 2010, and back when he was a family man/travelling salesman. I just wonder how he would have gotten rid of bodies, before he had access to the Mallory Street property, and this recent trend for enormous, affordable, planters. Nobody had such a thing back in the 1990s or earlier, nor would he have had an excuse to be installing/tending them.

The planters meant he didn't have to dig conspicuous graves in the ground and animals wouldn't try to dig them up. Once he had had the planter in place, he could work quickly, by himself. The owners at Mallory St. were apparently often away at the cottage.

I really wonder if he'd be the type of person to kill, if he didn't have a very careful method for concealing the bodies.

 

[cstewart0985]

Thanks for this post, it seems worth contemplating, if he'd been murdering men for decades, would the 2001 have gone quite differently...

I was thinking about whether he really has done this before 2010, and back when he was a family man/travelling salesman. I just wonder how he would have gotten rid of bodies, before he had access to the Mallory Street property, and this recent trend for enormous, affordable, planters. Nobody had such a thing back in the 1990s or earlier, nor would he have had an excuse to be installing/tending them.

The planters meant he didn't have to dig conspicuous graves in the ground and animals wouldn't try to dig them up. Once he had had the planter in place, he could work quickly, by himself. The owners at Mallory St. were apparently often away at the cottage.

I really wonder if he'd be the type of person to kill, if he didn't have a very careful method of concealing the bodies.

I understand where you are going with this, however, serial killers have the ability to do 2 things. One is to cool off. They can go years in between killing. Two they have the ability to change overtime. They can change methods of murder, victimology, disposal methods, target areas, etc etc. They can change out of necessity or availability. So, although I agree that he wasn’t murdering since the 70’s straight through, I do believe he either had one or more cooling off periods or he was a late starter like Albert Fish (but you’ll find a pattern of escalating behaviour).


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[Purr]

More about the incident in 2016. The video has more information that the article.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4073560/bruce-mcarthur-alleged-sexual-assault-2016/

According to Global, 2 police divisions were involved.


Here's my summary:

McArthur met the man through an online dating app and arranged to meet him. The sex occurred in a parking lot in North York in McArthur's red van and the man told McArthur he'd be contacting police. McArthur took off and attempted to get ahead of the accusation by driving to police in 41 division in Scarborough and told them there would be a false accusation of sexual assault. The man went to 32 division in North York and reported it. The police went to the parking lot in 32 division and investigated. Eventually the police linked McArthur's claim to the complaint in 32 division and took him into custody. They interviewed McArthur, believed his version of events and released him without laying any charges.

Dgt Sgt Idsinga knew about this incident in 2017 while investigating Project Prism. He did not write out a complaint at this time because he didn't want it to compromise the investigation because it might leak out to the media.

(end of summary)

McArthur is incredibly manipulative. Interesting that he went to another police division further away from where the incident occurred, not near his home in Thorncliffe Park (53 division). I think his choosing to go to 41 division in Scarborough was probably to delay the investigation and perhaps hoping that communication was poor between police divisions.

Here's a map of Toronto Police divisions.
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/divisions/map.php

 

[Purr]

Article from today's Toronto Star about an independent investigation into the police force's handling of missing persons cases. They are finalizing plans to create a dedicated missing persons unit. Toronto is one of the few cities in the province without a missing persons unit, investigation has been done at a divisional level (a dedicated unit is very long overdue IMHO).

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...vestigations-with-focus-on-systemic-bias.html

Thought this part was especially interesting about what probably was not done at the time of the assault complaint in 2016:

"Generally, in a situation where there is an alleged assault, paperwork in the form of an occurrence report should be filed. In the case of any sexual assault or attempted sexual assault, solved or unsolved, including false allegations, the police officer in charge of an investigation must also submit what’s called a ViCLAS report — the Violent Crime Linkage Analysis System, is a national database for tracking violent offenders and offences.
In addition, all homicides and attempted homicides solved or unsolved must be reported, as well as missing-persons cases where circumstances indicate a strong possibility of foul play. All this then becomes searchable on a national basis, and reports in the system are continually analyzed against other cases, in attempt to establish any possible linkages with other cases across Canada."

 

[lilymoon]

GHB is very popular in the EDM (electric dance music) scene, it is considered a rave drug if you will. When i used to rave in the late 90s the popular drugs were ecstasy or meth, but then after awhile GHB came out and so many switched to that. I myself have never taken it, knowingly. I have seen many people I know take it and dance all night and in a euphoric state or pass out.

People take it to party and have a good time but when too much is taken one can "G out", pass out be incoherent...

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Thanks for sharing your experiences LS.

The significance of discussing GHB in a prior post was only to highlight that BM had it readily available in his home, to serve to his victim that survived his encounter; as well as a possibility of areas that might interest investigators/forensics when conducting toxicology tests. Results of the tests could indicate a link to the murdered victims in addition to sudden death cases.

Positive toxicology tests could also provide a greater understanding of how the murdered victims were initially overpowered, given that BM does NOT appear to be young, lean and strong. JMO

 

[cstewart0985]

Thanks for sharing your experiences LS.

The significance of discussing GHB in a prior post was only to highlight that BM had it readily available in his home, to serve to his victim that survived his encounter; as well as a possibility of areas that might interest investigators/forensics when conducting toxicology tests. Results of the tests could indicate a link to the murdered victims in addition to sudden death cases.

Positive toxicology tests could also provide a greater understanding of how the murdered victims were initially overpowered, given that BM does NOT appear to be young, lean and strong. JMO

Do we know for certain BM provided the GHB? Because the people who I’ve talked to said he supplied his own at every encounter. I wouldn’t blame him for not wanting to admit that publicly.


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[Maple]

More about the incident in 2016. The video has more information that the article.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4073560/bruce-mcarthur-alleged-sexual-assault-2016/

According to Global, 2 police divisions were involved.


Here's my summary:

McArthur met the man through an online dating app and arranged to meet him. The sex occurred in a parking lot in North York in McArthur's red van and the man told McArthur he'd be contacting police. McArthur took off and attempted to get ahead of the accusation by driving to police in 41 division in Scarborough and told them there would be a false accusation of sexual assault. The man went to 32 division in North York and reported it. The police went to the parking lot in 32 division and investigated. Eventually the police linked McArthur's claim to the complaint in 32 division and took him into custody. They interviewed McArthur, believed his version of events and released him without laying any charges.

Dgt Sgt Idsinga knew about this incident in 2017 while investigating Project Prism. He did not write out a complaint at this time because he didn't want it to compromise the investigation because it might leak out to the media.

(end of summary)

McArthur is incredibly manipulative. Interesting that he went to another police division further away from where the incident occurred, not near his home in Thorncliffe Park (53 division). I think his choosing to go to 41 division in Scarborough was probably to delay the investigation and perhaps hoping that communication was poor between police divisions.

Here's a map of Toronto Police divisions.
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/divisions/map.php

Yes, BM is manipulative as are psychopathic killers.
I wonder if BM had some kind of an insider about the delay in communication between police divisions and wonder if he learned it from having to deal with his son's run-ins with the law. JMO

 

[Maple]

I don't know if this is the right thread to be posting this, but I just realized that the Missing Person poster for Skanda states, "he was last seen...leaving a bar called 'Zippers' with an unknown male." I recall having read somewhere that BM also frequented Zippers (or am I wrong?). So, wouldn't the eyewitness have recognized BM that night? And even if not, wouldn't LE have interviewed someone from Zippers to see if they recognized the "unknown male?" Unless, he did leave with someone other than BM and BM found out and became enraged with feelings of jealousy and sought revenge. But hearing now of LE's misactions, I am tempted to assume that LE may not have done a thorough interview with people who saw Skanda that night. JMO

 

[lilymoon]

Not something that i would like to bring attention to, but thinking it should be noted, fwiw imo.
http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...ecause-of-involvement-in-bruce-mcarthur-group

Am fairly still new to WS with limited experience to only this BM thread.

But I very much appreciate the integrity from the members and in the posts here. All seem to have a warm regard for one another, the highest respect and sensitivity towards victims and families, not engaging in rumors, gossip, or hearsay, AND citing sources. (Citations bring back bittersweet memories from college papers!)

WS feels like a safe space to intelligently share and exchange information and ideas regarding cases with similiar interests and curiosities with steadfast support of the victims, families and all others affected by the senseless destruction of lives and families.



Bar held high - good job WS!!

 

[cstewart0985]

I don't know if this is the right thread to be posting this, but I just realized that the Missing Person poster for Skanda states, "he was last seen...leaving a bar called 'Zippers' with an unknown male." I recall having read somewhere that BM also frequented Zippers (or am I wrong?). So, wouldn't the eyewitness have recognized BM that night? And even if not, wouldn't LE have interviewed someone from Zippers to see if they recognized the "unknown male?" Unless, he did leave with someone other than BM and BM found out and became enraged with feelings of jealousy and sought revenge. But hearing now of LE's misactions, I am tempted to assume that LE may not have done a thorough interview with people who saw Skanda that night. JMO

I still maintain the simple fact that Skanda was his partner for a decade should have made BM at minimum a person of interest. If they had’ve questioned Skanda’s family about prior relationships, they would have heard that Skanda said he was scared of BM because of his violent behaviour. Jealous ex is an actual thing for any person to deal with. If myself and my husband separated and 2 years later I went missing, they would talk to my ex husband -kids or no kids. I think it speaks greatly to the failings of Project Houston. The fact that the conclusion that all 3 men abandoned children and newly adopted pet for countries they could be killed for being gay in (oh.. and left their passports at home for?) literally makes so little sense I could scream or cry.


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[dotr]

I don't know if this is the right thread to be posting this, but I just realized that the Missing Person poster for Skanda states, "he was last seen...leaving a bar called 'Zippers' with an unknown male." I recall having read somewhere that BM also frequented Zippers (or am I wrong?). So, wouldn't the eyewitness have recognized BM that night? And even if not, wouldn't LE have interviewed someone from Zippers to see if they recognized the "unknown male?" Unless, he did leave with someone other than BM and BM found out and became enraged with feelings of jealousy and sought revenge. But hearing now of LE's misactions, I am tempted to assume that LE may not have done a thorough interview with people who saw Skanda that night. JMO

Just posted a link about Skanda and the clubs he liked to visit on his thread.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?115680-Skanda-Navaratnam-40-Toronto-5-Sept-2010&p=13982064#post13982064
[h=2]Skanda Navaratnam, 40, Toronto, 5 Sept 2010[/h]

 

[lilymoon]

Just posted a link about Skanda and the clubs he liked to visit on his thread.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?115680-Skanda-Navaratnam-40-Toronto-5-Sept-2010&p=13982064#post13982064
Skanda Navaratnam, 40, Toronto, 5 Sept 2010

At the end of the day, only one man holds all the answers and fortunately that one man has been stopped. He will not end one more life.

During this investigation, people will continue to be harmed as details emerge.

But amidst all the pain and suffering now and in the future, remaining patient and positive that the answers will eventually come to those that need them the most, best serves and supports all those who have been very deeply affected by the actions of ONE man.

 

[Sjm_qc]

Marking my spot.

I’ve been TRYING to give TPS as much benefit of the doubt as possible, but am LIVID at what is coming out over the last few days about the bungling that seems to have happened.

BM had a conviction for a violent assault on a sex worker, and at LEAST 2 run-ins with TPS over other violent sexual encounters, not to mention his links to some of the missing, and NOONE NOTICED???

No designated missing persons unit???? (Actually, I already knew that from another case.) Next thing they’ll be telling us the different divisions aren’t networked.

Giving myself a time-out before I say something that will get me a real one 😡😡😡😡

 

[lcid]

I still maintain the simple fact that Skanda was his partner for a decade should have made BM at minimum a person of interest. If they had’ve questioned Skanda’s family about prior relationships, they would have heard that Skanda said he was scared of BM because of his violent behaviour. Jealous ex is an actual thing for any person to deal with. If myself and my husband separated and 2 years later I went missing, they would talk to my ex husband -kids or no kids. I think it speaks greatly to the failings of Project Houston. The fact that the conclusion that all 3 men abandoned children and newly adopted pet for countries they could be killed for being gay in (oh.. and left their passports at home for?) literally makes so little sense I could scream or cry.


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This has been my thought. Usually when a woman goes missing the first person they suspect is the violent ex. I can't go into detail here but honestly more than once I have seen firsthand that TPS actually isn't quite sure how to handle violence in relationships between men, when it should be obvious that they ought to treat it the same as domestic violence situations between men and women.

 

[cstewart0985]

This has been my thought. Usually when a woman goes missing the first person they suspect is the violent ex. I can't go into detail here but honestly more than once I have seen firsthand that TPS actually isn't quite sure how to handle violence in relationships between men, when it should be obvious that they ought to treat it the same as domestic violence situations between men and women.

You definitely don’t have to get into it here. I already know the same. But I think it speaks to the overall bias still rampant either in certain (not all) police and upwards, and/or the way TPS is managed. People still get mad at BLM for pressuring Pride to remove visual police presence (they can still personally be there, just not as officers - no uniforms, no weapons, no floats, no police cars) but being angry at them suggests a real relationship had been developed between police and the LGBTQ+ community. It clearly was just optics.


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[cstewart0985]

Marking my spot.

I’ve been TRYING to give TPS as much benefit of the doubt as possible, but am LIVID at what is coming out over the last few days about the bungling that seems to have happened.

BM had a conviction for a violent assault on a sex worker, and at LEAST 2 run-ins with TPS over other violent sexual encounters, not to mention his links to some of the missing, and NOONE NOTICED???

No designated missing persons unit???? (Actually, I already knew that from another case.) Next thing they’ll be telling us the different divisions aren’t networked.

Giving myself a time-out before I say something that will get me a real one [emoji35][emoji35][emoji35][emoji35]

I understand the people hanging onto hope. However, I’m going to leave this list here as the ways TPS has been failing over the years. This list is not complete and I’m positive people could add so much more to it.

-Sammy Yatim
-the carding database (this is still accessible, hoops have to be jumped through, but as it was a human rights violation, it should have been shut down entirely-not left open for “legal issues that may arise” and still accessible by police!)
-Laura Babcock (if they listened to Shawn who brought Millard on a silver platter, Wayne Millard and Tim Bosma’s lives likely would have been spared)
-The LGBTQ+ community’s collective fears being ignored
-the bungled Project Houston that allowed at least 4 men to be murdered
-the active coverup of Dafonte Miller’s beating by a TPS officer and his brother (happened in Durham Region, but TPS aided in coverup)
-Alloura Wells
-Tess Richey
-Saunders blaming the LGBTQ+ community for Project Houston failing and Tory backing him up
-the simple fact that Mayor John Tory sits on the police board that oversees TPS (this one bothers me so much)


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[Maple]

Marking my spot.

I’ve been TRYING to give TPS as much benefit of the doubt as possible, but am LIVID at what is coming out over the last few days about the bungling that seems to have happened.

BM had a conviction for a violent assault on a sex worker, and at LEAST 2 run-ins with TPS over other violent sexual encounters, not to mention his links to some of the missing, and NOONE NOTICED???

No designated missing persons unit???? (Actually, I already knew that from another case.) Next thing they’ll be telling us the different divisions aren’t networked.

Giving myself a time-out before I say something that will get me a real one ��������

It angers all of us as we learn more details about the violent past of BM and LE inaction.
It seems like LE is admiting to the fact that the different divisions don't network.

 

[cstewart0985]

It angers all of us as we learn more details about the violent past of BM and LE inaction.
It seems like LE is admiting to the fact that the different divisions don't network.

Or worse, they pick and choose when they do.


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[Maple]

This has been my thought. Usually when a woman goes missing the first person they suspect is the violent ex. I can't go into detail here but honestly more than once I have seen firsthand that TPS actually isn't quite sure how to handle violence in relationships between men, when it should be obvious that they ought to treat it the same as domestic violence situations between men and women.

This is why LGBT education/awareness and diversity training is a must and should become a criteria for LE before they can be deemed as competent to work in a multicultural society. When you work in a profession that aims to protect the public, you cannot use the excuse of "I didn't know", or "I assumed".

Sorry my morning rant.