Canada - Canadian hockey team fatal bus accident tragedy, 6 April 2018

[gregjrichards]

Humboldt Broncos
@HumboldtBroncos
·
Evan Thomas - #HumboldtBroncos Centreman…

Magical light, humble, competitive, fiercely intelligent, full of character, hard worker, generous hearted, fantastic athlete, a great sense of humor, a team guy through and through.

Together, we are #Humboldtstrong.



May Evan Thomas Rest In Peace

 

[gregjrichards]

“Officials with the Humboldt Broncos junior hockey team, which lost 16 players and staff in a horrific bus crash earlier this month, were expected to release details Monday on how they plan to use the nearly $12 million raised through crowdfunding.

More than 130,000 individuals and businesses from Canada and other countries have donated between $50 and $50,000 to the GoFundMe campaign -- called Funds for Humboldt Broncos -- which was originally dedicated to covering the expenses of the victims' families.

But concerns are mounting about the sale of unauthorized merchandise that uses the team's name, logo, or the slogan "Humboldt Strong" without donating any of the funds to the victims or their families.”

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/humbo...early-12m-in-donations-will-be-used-1.3887324

 

[CoolJ]

hmmmmm I don't disagree, BUT... if a red flashing stop sign isn't going to stop a truck from going through the intersection, I don't know if I 60 km/h sign would either.

After this temporary 60 km/h, I could see them lowering it to 80 km/h. That is more common on our highways, either going past small towns, or area's that require extra attention. They definitely need the rumble strips, that one should be a no brainer and shouldn't even be debated or have to be petitioned, just get it done.

If there is a stop sign on a 100km highway, out of the blue, it should be preceded by a drastically reduced speed limit at least 500m ahead of the intersection. There should be rumble strips a significant distance ahead of the interesection as well as a flashing yellow light caution sign a significant distance ahead warning about an upcoming stop sign.

A stop sign with a flashing light on top, right at the intersection, is not adequate. It is unacceptable. This is not a city road, it is a 100km highway. Too much room for driver error. There is no buffer zone whatsoever. Someone unfamiliar with those highways and carrying a big load may not have time to make a safe stop, especially if they are temporarily blinded by the sun.

 

[CoolJ]

A similar overhead sign, rumble strips and a reduced speed leading up to interesection would have prevented this tragedy. Not a doubt in my mind.

 

[CoolJ]

Further to my point, here is an article from January about a somewhat similar interesection in Alberta and the inherent dangers.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3989955/new-stop-sign-balzac-intersection-concerns-drivers/

 

[ldlager]

A similar overhead sign, rumble strips and a reduced speed leading up to interesection would have prevented this tragedy. Not a doubt in my mind.

I agree of course. I read an article that quoted some local residents who said that vehicles often ran the stop sign on purpose, since there was not much traffic there typically, and visibility except for the trees was good (“you can see for miles&#8221. Not saying the truck driver ran the stop sign, or that he did it on purpose, but signage won’t matter if someone decides to do that.

 

[CoolJ]

I agree of course. I read an article that quoted some local residents who said that vehicles often ran the stop sign on purpose, since there was not much traffic there typically, and visibility except for the trees was good (“you can see for miles”). Not saying the truck driver ran the stop sign, or that he did it on purpose, but signage won’t matter if someone decides to do that.

Can you provide a link to where it says they ran the stop sign on purpose. That is not how I remember the article. The local residents were saying people regularly blew through the stop sign but I don’t recall anything about it being on purpose. That would be suicidal.

 

[ldlager]

Can you provide a link to where it says they ran the stop sign on purpose. That is not how I remember the article. The local residents were saying people regularly blew through the stop sign but I don’t recall anything about it being on purpose. That would be suicidal.

This isn't the particular one that I read, but a good enough example (rbbm):
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/11/world/americas/humboldt-broncos-highway-safety.html

"...Mr. Lalonde will not join in the crash speculation. But he said that whatever safety improvements are made, Saskatchewan’s residents may need to rethink how they drive. Speeding is common, he said, on lightly trafficked highways, usually with wide shoulders, that run mainly in straight lines and have relatively few highway patrols.“The thing that I think makes it a dangerous intersection is that it’s a high speed intersection,” Mr. Lalonde said. “Where a lot of your major highways cross out here in the prairies would usually be when you’re going through a small town, where you’re stopping anyways. Nobody’s stopping here.”
The article I read previously ( I will try and find it but there have been so many articles that I have looked at since this accident that I may not be able to easily find it) specifically said that because of the wide open spaces around the intersection, some locals approach the intersection and scan the horizon for vehicles, and go through if they don't see another vehicle coming. Perhaps Sask posters can advise if they are aware of this practice in rural Sask.

The above article implies what the other article specifically referred to- "Nobody's stopping here". I hope that helps.

 

[ldlager]

Further to my point, here is an article from January about a somewhat similar interesection in Alberta and the inherent dangers.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3989955/new-stop-sign-balzac-intersection-concerns-drivers/

I am familiar with this intersection in Balzac. It is well known for how often people just miss or ignore the stop sign.

 

[will4u]

If there is a stop sign on a 100km highway, out of the blue, it should be preceded by a drastically reduced speed limit at least 500m ahead of the intersection. There should be rumble strips a significant distance ahead of the interesection as well as a flashing yellow light caution sign a significant distance ahead warning about an upcoming stop sign.

A stop sign with a flashing light on top, right at the intersection, is not adequate.

<modsnip>

this happened in Saskatchewan, the land is FLAT as a marble floor, and a flashing red light would be seen for at least 2-3 miles in advance of the intersection,

this accident happened at sunset and the truck driver was driving directly into the sunset, maybe the driver was blinded by the sun and never saw the stop sign at all,

we can't blame the signage or construction of the intersection itself, if signage was to blame then there would be accidents every day at this intersection <modsnip>

 

[Jax49]

If there is a stop sign on a 100km highway, out of the blue, it should be preceded by a drastically reduced speed limit at least 500m ahead of the intersection. There should be rumble strips a significant distance ahead of the interesection as well as a flashing yellow light caution sign a significant distance ahead warning about an upcoming stop sign.

A stop sign with a flashing light on top, right at the intersection, is not adequate. It is unacceptable. This is not a city road, it is a 100km highway. Too much room for driver error. There is no buffer zone whatsoever. Someone unfamiliar with those highways and carrying a big load may not have time to make a safe stop, especially if they are temporarily blinded by the sun.

Agree.

IMHO, the most important improvement might be rumble strips. They should have been installed years ago.

 

[CoolJ]

<modsnip>

this happened in Saskatchewan, the land is FLAT as a marble floor, and a flashing red light would be seen for at least 2-3 miles in advance of the intersection,

this accident happened at sunset and the truck driver was driving directly into the sunset, maybe the driver was blinded by the sun and never saw the stop sign at all,

we can't blame the signage or construction of the intersection itself, if signage was to blame then there would be accidents every day at this intersection <modsnip>

<modsnip> you said it yourself... "maybe the driver was blinded by the sun and never saw the stop sign"..... this is precisely why a stop sign right at the intersection is not adequate. This is a 100km/h highway.

It is ridiculous to think a stop sign in the middle of a highway is an adequate enough warning when vehicles are travelling at those speeds.

Hopefully, the now 22 crosses erected at that intersection will light a fire under the of some government officials to finally spend a few hundred bucks and do something.

 

[will4u]

It is ridiculous to think a stop sign in the middle of a highway is an adequate enough warning when vehicles are travelling at those speeds.

overall, and in the big scheme of things, they seem to work just fine actually, and have been for 20, 30, or 50 years,

<modsnip>

i would bet there is only ONE accident or less for every 1 MILLION or more vehicles who pass through an intersection like this safely every day, that's a pretty damn safe record,

im not just talking about this specific intersection, but all intersections like this across all of canada,

you would be more likely to be abducted by aliens from mars,

nothing will ever prevent all accidents

 

[missy1974]

I do think something needs to be done at these high traffic highway intersections, I am not sure what the answer is, because ultimately there is always going to be driver error that is going to play a factor, and sometimes a sign/light/rumble strip isn't going to stop driver error.

Being from Saskatchewan, and driving here all my life, all over the province, this is not the only intersection of 2 highways. They would be either 90, 100, or 110 km/h highways. I cannot even imagine driving and having to slow down at every intersection, it would be a bit crazy.

I do agree with will4u, the flashing lights can usually be seen miles or km's away. There is a highway we drive on all the time, it has a flashing lights at the stop signs on the highway... we can see the one a long way away, always surprises me at how long it takes to get to the sign lol


The video of the intersection in Alberta... that is crazy!!!! who thought that was a good idea??? and have they changed it yet? anyone know?

 

[missy1974]

http://thestarphoenix.com/news/local-news/provincial-highway-ministry-reviewing-deadly-intersection

Highway 335 features stop signs with flashing lights at the intersection with Highway 35, and signs warning that a stop sign is ahead.


just thought I would check to see if there was anything new about the highway, came across this article from last week and it's the first time I have read that there are signs warning that a stop sign is ahead.

 

[CoolJ]

http://thestarphoenix.com/news/local-news/provincial-highway-ministry-reviewing-deadly-intersection

Highway 335 features stop signs with flashing lights at the intersection with Highway 35, and signs warning that a stop sign is ahead.


just thought I would check to see if there was anything new about the highway, came across this article from last week and it's the first time I have read that there are signs warning that a stop sign is ahead.

There is one "stop sign ahead" sign leading up to the intersection. I saw it when I did a google street view. Well at least there is when you are heading east into that intersection (no google street view heading west). But it is not enough of a warning. If you are driving that highway for the first time and not used to Prairie highways, you do not expect a stop sign out of the blue on a highway. Intersections like that are not the norm here in the maritimes, so when i was driving in Manitoba/Sask I remember thinking it was quite odd and potentially dangerous.

Please understand, I am not saying the truck driver does or doesn't have some responsibility in what happened. Maybe he was impaired? Maybe he was texting? Maybe he fell asleep? I don't know. But the point is, those intersections should and could be made much safer for relatively very little expense.
Road signage and safety measures need to be constructed for those that do not regularly use those highways.

 

[gregjrichards]

In the wake of 16 people being killed in the crash of the Humboldt Broncos team bus in rural Saskatchewan, local politicians are vowing sweeping safety updates to the intersection where it happened.

&#8220;This cannot happen again,&#8221; Dale Poggemiller, a rural councillor who lives near the crash site, said last week. The area&#8217;s deputy reeve, Ian Boxall, called for a review of rural highway intersections across the province.

As Saskatchewan traffic planners weigh their options, it&#8217;s almost certain that they will be considering roundabouts, a technology embraced around the world as the go-to method of stopping the bleeding at deadly rural intersections.

&#8220;Rural roundabouts provide an effective resolution to an intersection with a poor crash history, and more importantly, an intersection with a history of severe crashes,&#8221; reads a 2014 study by the U.S.-based Transportation Research Board.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/could-roundabouts-prevent-a-future-humboldt-broncos-tragedy

I am so pleased to read this. Roundabouts are what we have here in Scotland.

 

[gregjrichards]

&#8220;A celebration of life will be held in Edmonton on Tuesday afternoon, to honour the lives of four Humboldt Broncos players killed in a devastating bus crash a little over one week ago.

The celebration of life at Rogers Place will pay tribute to Jaxon Joseph, Logan Hunter, Parker Tobin and Stephen Wack. The families of the Edmonton-area players are hosting the public celebration at 1 p.m. MT&#8221;

https://globalnews.ca/news/4147321/edmonton-celebration-of-life-humboldt-broncos-bus-crash/

May Jaxon Joseph, Logan Hunter, Parker Tobin, Stephen Wack. Rest In Peace.

 

[missy1974]

There is one "stop sign ahead" sign leading up to the intersection. I saw it when I did a google street view. Well at least there is when you are heading east into that intersection (no google street view heading west). But it is not enough of a warning. If you are driving that highway for the first time and not used to Prairie highways, you do not expect a stop sign out of the blue on a highway. Intersections like that are not the norm here in the maritimes, so when i was driving in Manitoba/Sask I remember thinking it was quite odd and potentially dangerous.

Please understand, I am not saying the truck driver does or doesn't have some responsibility in what happened. Maybe he was impaired? Maybe he was texting? Maybe he fell asleep? I don't know. But the point is, those intersections should and could be made much safer for relatively very little expense.
Road signage and safety measures need to be constructed for those that do not regularly use those highways.

Again CoolJ, I don't disagree with you that something needs to be done there, I just don't know what the answer is that eliminates driver error. Like you said, someone not used to driving prairie highways, may not expect to see a stop sign. But that same person should NOT be driving a semi on said prairie highways IMO If I am, or anyone, is driving somewhere new to them, shouldn't they be more sensitive to and more aware of signage, lights, etc?

gregjrichards ~ I was listening to local radio this morning and they were talking about the roundabouts, I think it could work at that intersection, but it won't work at all of them in Saskatchewan or the prairies. It's somewhat hard to explain just how many highways and open space we have here.

ETA ~ CoolJ... I had no clue you were a canuck!!! We have been posting together for a long time on another forum, and I have never picked up on it ;-)

 

[ldlager]

In the wake of 16 people being killed in the crash of the Humboldt Broncos team bus in rural Saskatchewan, local politicians are vowing sweeping safety updates to the intersection where it happened.

&#8220;This cannot happen again,&#8221; Dale Poggemiller, a rural councillor who lives near the crash site, said last week. The area&#8217;s deputy reeve, Ian Boxall, called for a review of rural highway intersections across the province.

As Saskatchewan traffic planners weigh their options, it&#8217;s almost certain that they will be considering roundabouts, a technology embraced around the world as the go-to method of stopping the bleeding at deadly rural intersections.

&#8220;Rural roundabouts provide an effective resolution to an intersection with a poor crash history, and more importantly, an intersection with a history of severe crashes,&#8221; reads a 2014 study by the U.S.-based Transportation Research Board.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/could-roundabouts-prevent-a-future-humboldt-broncos-tragedy

I am so pleased to read this. Roundabouts are what we have here in Scotland.

"....local politicians are vowing sweeping safety updates..." As this is a provincial highway, they can "vow" all they want, but they have no authority to approve or implement any safety updates at that intersection. Where have they been for the past 20 years?