CANADA Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 - #1
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I guess there wouldn't be any upside for Douglas to attend but sure would have liked to have heard what changes he may have made to the profile once he was informed of all the details.
The science has come along ways and the case may still benefit from it. But as far as sticking with the original profile and coming up with a similar suspect? Can't quite follow that. Died by knife wounds and being killed in the fashion described above are two different things. If the victim was kept alive, that is another huge difference. If I am reading right there seems alot of differing information being put out from various sources of which the profile being publicly disseminated as it was contributed even further. Its really the anatomy of how to produce a false conviction and convince the public it is the right one.
That second autopsy report could and should be reviewed by a modern day professional. It seems quite important and may provide new leads or may back up the viability of some new suspect. Douglas almost owes that. send him a letter?
The science has come along ways and the case may still benefit from it. But as far as sticking with the original profile and coming up with a similar suspect? Can't quite follow that. Died by knife wounds and being killed in the fashion described above are two different things. If the victim was kept alive, that is another huge difference. If I am reading right there seems alot of differing information being put out from various sources of which the profile being publicly disseminated as it was contributed even further. Its really the anatomy of how to produce a false conviction and convince the public it is the right one.
That second autopsy report could and should be reviewed by a modern day professional. It seems quite important and may provide new leads or may back up the viability of some new suspect. Douglas almost owes that. send him a letter?
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Here are the portions of the Douglas profile that I think might be useful. I don't consider all of this gospel, but I think some of this is going to be damned close. The trick is, which ones are accurate?
From the Kaufman Report:
- Christine Jessop was targeted by a subject whom she recognized and knew and she became a victim of this violent crime because the subject responsible knew that this young child could be easily dominated, manipulated, and physically controlled by him quite easily.
The killer:
- (was) a loner who lived in the neighbourhood
- was youthful late teens, early twenties.
- was having personal problems at home, school or work
- was experiencing many life stresses
- was not antisocial, but somewhat of a loner who prefers his own company
- may present a façade as a macho individual, superior to others, but has poor self-esteem and lacks self-confidence
- tends to play with children who might be impressed by his antics
- drives older model vehicle, not well-maintained and cruises area in vehicle
- spends time cruising in his car as a vehicle for convenience to escape
- has a poor self-image and may have a physical ailment, disability or disfigurement or facial scars and does not maintain good personal hygiene, is not well-groomed, needs a haircut or shave, wears sloppy, soiled clothing in need of repair
- occasionally drinks alcohol
- will have a criminal history of nuisance, arson, cruelty to animals, voyeurism, or break and entering
- lazy, not a high-achiever, of average intelligence
- a mediocre student; offenders of this type generally do not graduate from high school, but if he did he would have gotten by with barely passing grades;
Post-offence behaviour:
- may have cleaned the cars interior after the offence
- rigid, stiff, pre-occupied or nervous with the police
- overly cooperative, participated in searches which show how concerned he is
- difficulty sleeping.
From Journey Into Darkness (John Douglas and Mark Olshaker)
(Im only listing additional points to the profile not mentioned above in the K.R.)
The killer:
- knew the area well
- misinterpreted her openness and enthusiasm and thought she would welcome his sexual advances
- was known to the family
- had a hard time subduing her
- was probably in his early twenties but could be older (but with a case of arrested emotional development)
- was not an experienced offender
- this was probably his first homicide
- was nocturnal, preferring to sleep during the day
- if he had a job, it would not be mentally taxing
- his car would have high mileage
- feels like something about him puts him at a disadvantage with women his own age
Post-offence behaviour:
- would have gone home immediately afterward to bathe, clean himself off and probably destroy the clothes he was wearing
- would rely more on cigarettes and alcohol
- will not leave the area if he at all thinks hes under suspicion because he would perceive this as evidence of his guilt
- someone around him may have noticed his need to go back to the dump site and he would have offered some excuse why he had to do this
From the Kaufman Report:
- Christine Jessop was targeted by a subject whom she recognized and knew and she became a victim of this violent crime because the subject responsible knew that this young child could be easily dominated, manipulated, and physically controlled by him quite easily.
The killer:
- (was) a loner who lived in the neighbourhood
- was youthful late teens, early twenties.
- was having personal problems at home, school or work
- was experiencing many life stresses
- was not antisocial, but somewhat of a loner who prefers his own company
- may present a façade as a macho individual, superior to others, but has poor self-esteem and lacks self-confidence
- tends to play with children who might be impressed by his antics
- drives older model vehicle, not well-maintained and cruises area in vehicle
- spends time cruising in his car as a vehicle for convenience to escape
- has a poor self-image and may have a physical ailment, disability or disfigurement or facial scars and does not maintain good personal hygiene, is not well-groomed, needs a haircut or shave, wears sloppy, soiled clothing in need of repair
- occasionally drinks alcohol
- will have a criminal history of nuisance, arson, cruelty to animals, voyeurism, or break and entering
- lazy, not a high-achiever, of average intelligence
- a mediocre student; offenders of this type generally do not graduate from high school, but if he did he would have gotten by with barely passing grades;
Post-offence behaviour:
- may have cleaned the cars interior after the offence
- rigid, stiff, pre-occupied or nervous with the police
- overly cooperative, participated in searches which show how concerned he is
- difficulty sleeping.
From Journey Into Darkness (John Douglas and Mark Olshaker)
(Im only listing additional points to the profile not mentioned above in the K.R.)
The killer:
- knew the area well
- misinterpreted her openness and enthusiasm and thought she would welcome his sexual advances
- was known to the family
- had a hard time subduing her
- was probably in his early twenties but could be older (but with a case of arrested emotional development)
- was not an experienced offender
- this was probably his first homicide
- was nocturnal, preferring to sleep during the day
- if he had a job, it would not be mentally taxing
- his car would have high mileage
- feels like something about him puts him at a disadvantage with women his own age
Post-offence behaviour:
- would have gone home immediately afterward to bathe, clean himself off and probably destroy the clothes he was wearing
- would rely more on cigarettes and alcohol
- will not leave the area if he at all thinks hes under suspicion because he would perceive this as evidence of his guilt
- someone around him may have noticed his need to go back to the dump site and he would have offered some excuse why he had to do this
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Thank you both. I'll review/research when I have a chance ... shouldn't have posted so quickly and I sure don't have any info handy.
Question for Dedpanman: are you writing a book based on this case?
Dedpanman
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Orora - good points and I agree. A new profile should be attempted - but, Douglas had his chance. I would throw the ball to someone else. I would hope, that once GPM was cleared of this crime, and Neale Tweedy (I know what you're thinking, Woodland) took over, a new profile would be one of the first things that would have happened. But, God only knows. More on this in my next post.
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This is from "Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs" Issue 44 - Evidence I post it here to provide context for those of you who don't know what happened after GPM was cleared in 1995 by the DNA evidence.
OTTAWA, Thursday, November 26, 1998
Detective Sergeant Neale Tweedy, Toronto Police Service, Canadian Police Association:
"I have been a police officer for 27 years, 17 of those as a homicide investigator, trainer and supervisor. As such, I have extensive experience in all facets of death investigation, including crime scene management, crime scene interpretation, evidence collection, suspect elimination, interviewing, law and procedure, information management, victim management and evidence presentation, to name but a few of the elements of the process. I previously have been acknowledged as an expert witness in the Ontario Court General Division in the discipline of homicide investigation.
During my time as a homicide detective, I have been involved in the investigation of a number of murder cases where rape was inflicted on the victim and was a primary or secondary motive for the crime. Christine Prince, Ruth Stern, Rupy Sanghera, Tania Anikejew, Nicole Morin, Andrea Atkinson, Kala Clauduz, Kristen French and Leslie Mahaffey, are names of but a few of the women and children whose lives were taken. Like a slide show, I can see the crime scenes in my mind's eye.
In January of 1995, I was placed in charge of one of Canada's most well publicized murder cases; the 1984 abduction, rape and murder of 9-year-old Christine Jessop of Queensville, Ontario. For 11 years Guy Paul Morin had been wrongfully accused, and DNA cleared him.
You may have read Red Rum the Innocent, a national best seller. Within days of Mr. Morin's acquittal, the case was transferred from the Durham Regional Police to Toronto, which began my involvement as unit commander of the task force on the Jessop murder. This was a full-time, three-year assignment for my team and me. Since that time, I have thought about Christine every day and the horror that this child endured. Additionally, every day, I thought about my inability to identify her killer and bring him out of hiding. Christine's mother and father deserve to know the identity of her killer. The citizens of this country deserve to know.
Evidence revealed that on October 3, 1984, Christine Jessop was abducted from the small town of Queensville, driven 30 miles from her home, where, in the seclusion of a remote wooded area, she was brutally raped. During the attack on this child, who weighed a mere 40 pounds, she was prodded with the blade of a knife and superficially injured; her screams and her fears satisfying the demented sexual and emotional needs of her killer.
When he completed the rape on Christine, evidence suggests he raped her again. During the attack Christine was punched in the face with such ferocity that her nose was severely fractured. Neighbours in two distant farmhouses awoke in the dark and heard her screams, heard her cries for help, but dismissed it and talked themselves out of calling the police. When the killer was tired of Christine, evidence revealed he stabbed her about the front and the back of her tiny body. He then slashed her throat with such force that she was nearly decapitated.
Her body was left lying on her back, nude from the waste down, her legs splayed apart, alone in the woods. Her killer calmly drove off. Christine lay victim to the elements until her body was recovered three months later, on December 31, 1984. She was badly decomposed, and there was evidence of animal activity.
Honourable senators, this is the real world of homicide investigation. Much different, much more horrible, much more complex to solve and prosecute than described by authors and screenwriters. There is no more challenging vocation than this, and today I ask for your help.
A killer's semen was left at the crime scene. It was collected and preserved. In 1995, when the science of DNA had advanced sufficiently, scientists were able to extract the DNA from the semen and determine it was inconsistent with that of Mr. Morin.
Since that time, I have been attempting to identify Christine's killer, primarily through taking blood or saliva samples from possible suspects. My investigation required my team's evaluation of 27,000 persons. I have seen to it that approximately 325 men have had their DNA compared to the calling card that Christine's killer left. Many of these 325 are respectable citizens who were linked directly or indirectly to Christine as family, friends or neighbours.
As citizens of the country, and wishing to assist my investigation, they provided consensual samples of their DNA. It was really just a prick on the tip of their fingers. This allowed my investigation to move past the possibility that the killer was known to Christine or her family. The rest, and vast majority of the 325, were men with a history of sexual assault, pedophilia and murder.
Unfortunately, to date, I have been unable to identify this child's killer. In a world that is highly computerized, with databases everywhere, I was reduced to writing letters to 1,000 police agencies and forensic laboratories across North America in my search for the match to the DNA marker that was left at the murder scene. The possibility of Christine's killers slipping through the cracks of this investigative technique are very large indeed, and despite my best efforts, I cannot be satisfied that this has not occurred.
In my 27 years of policing, I can think of no piece of legislation that will have a more significant and direct impact on crime prevention than Bill C-3. The benefits will be seen immediately, and will directly equate into solving a greater number of these crimes. They will also have a meaningful deterrent factor resulting in less violence against victims, especially women and children."
OTTAWA, Thursday, November 26, 1998
Detective Sergeant Neale Tweedy, Toronto Police Service, Canadian Police Association:
"I have been a police officer for 27 years, 17 of those as a homicide investigator, trainer and supervisor. As such, I have extensive experience in all facets of death investigation, including crime scene management, crime scene interpretation, evidence collection, suspect elimination, interviewing, law and procedure, information management, victim management and evidence presentation, to name but a few of the elements of the process. I previously have been acknowledged as an expert witness in the Ontario Court General Division in the discipline of homicide investigation.
During my time as a homicide detective, I have been involved in the investigation of a number of murder cases where rape was inflicted on the victim and was a primary or secondary motive for the crime. Christine Prince, Ruth Stern, Rupy Sanghera, Tania Anikejew, Nicole Morin, Andrea Atkinson, Kala Clauduz, Kristen French and Leslie Mahaffey, are names of but a few of the women and children whose lives were taken. Like a slide show, I can see the crime scenes in my mind's eye.
In January of 1995, I was placed in charge of one of Canada's most well publicized murder cases; the 1984 abduction, rape and murder of 9-year-old Christine Jessop of Queensville, Ontario. For 11 years Guy Paul Morin had been wrongfully accused, and DNA cleared him.
You may have read Red Rum the Innocent, a national best seller. Within days of Mr. Morin's acquittal, the case was transferred from the Durham Regional Police to Toronto, which began my involvement as unit commander of the task force on the Jessop murder. This was a full-time, three-year assignment for my team and me. Since that time, I have thought about Christine every day and the horror that this child endured. Additionally, every day, I thought about my inability to identify her killer and bring him out of hiding. Christine's mother and father deserve to know the identity of her killer. The citizens of this country deserve to know.
Evidence revealed that on October 3, 1984, Christine Jessop was abducted from the small town of Queensville, driven 30 miles from her home, where, in the seclusion of a remote wooded area, she was brutally raped. During the attack on this child, who weighed a mere 40 pounds, she was prodded with the blade of a knife and superficially injured; her screams and her fears satisfying the demented sexual and emotional needs of her killer.
When he completed the rape on Christine, evidence suggests he raped her again. During the attack Christine was punched in the face with such ferocity that her nose was severely fractured. Neighbours in two distant farmhouses awoke in the dark and heard her screams, heard her cries for help, but dismissed it and talked themselves out of calling the police. When the killer was tired of Christine, evidence revealed he stabbed her about the front and the back of her tiny body. He then slashed her throat with such force that she was nearly decapitated.
Her body was left lying on her back, nude from the waste down, her legs splayed apart, alone in the woods. Her killer calmly drove off. Christine lay victim to the elements until her body was recovered three months later, on December 31, 1984. She was badly decomposed, and there was evidence of animal activity.
Honourable senators, this is the real world of homicide investigation. Much different, much more horrible, much more complex to solve and prosecute than described by authors and screenwriters. There is no more challenging vocation than this, and today I ask for your help.
A killer's semen was left at the crime scene. It was collected and preserved. In 1995, when the science of DNA had advanced sufficiently, scientists were able to extract the DNA from the semen and determine it was inconsistent with that of Mr. Morin.
Since that time, I have been attempting to identify Christine's killer, primarily through taking blood or saliva samples from possible suspects. My investigation required my team's evaluation of 27,000 persons. I have seen to it that approximately 325 men have had their DNA compared to the calling card that Christine's killer left. Many of these 325 are respectable citizens who were linked directly or indirectly to Christine as family, friends or neighbours.
As citizens of the country, and wishing to assist my investigation, they provided consensual samples of their DNA. It was really just a prick on the tip of their fingers. This allowed my investigation to move past the possibility that the killer was known to Christine or her family. The rest, and vast majority of the 325, were men with a history of sexual assault, pedophilia and murder.
Unfortunately, to date, I have been unable to identify this child's killer. In a world that is highly computerized, with databases everywhere, I was reduced to writing letters to 1,000 police agencies and forensic laboratories across North America in my search for the match to the DNA marker that was left at the murder scene. The possibility of Christine's killers slipping through the cracks of this investigative technique are very large indeed, and despite my best efforts, I cannot be satisfied that this has not occurred.
In my 27 years of policing, I can think of no piece of legislation that will have a more significant and direct impact on crime prevention than Bill C-3. The benefits will be seen immediately, and will directly equate into solving a greater number of these crimes. They will also have a meaningful deterrent factor resulting in less violence against victims, especially women and children."
Dedpanman
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Lady L - no, I don't have any plans to write a book (but someone should). For a new book, there would have to be a new angle - or a major breakthrough of some kind. As it sits, we're still where we were when GPM was cleared in 1995. Nowhere. See my post where Neale Tweedy is quoted. I'm sure Woodland will chime in. I think she has some "opinions" about him. (Chuckle)
I hope I'm not baiting you, Woodland. Don't bite if you don't want to. (Or, if you shouldn't.)
I hope I'm not baiting you, Woodland. Don't bite if you don't want to. (Or, if you shouldn't.)
After reading that, in hindsight the investigator almost seemed desperate to come up with someone. Tunnel vision starts the process and checks and balances fell by the wayside including the fbi. This should have been caught and quite easily imo. Get a bit of a sick reaction the more I read.
The dna was of interest though. That was a lot of samples to test back in the day. I thought I read there was a problem with comparison or needing more dna for additional testing now? Doesn't seem to be the case from that article.
And... there was a guy who used to use a freezer to throw investigators off the time of death. Informative and he was for hire..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv4c3flhSaU&feature=player_embedded&list=PL637EA6CA41196698
Anyway, yes Douglas has soiled himself as far as this case goes. A letter would be futile unless he is laying on his deathbed feeling guilty and getting a bit lonely. Timing can pay more dividends than even the biggest bribe. Which reminds me, did Douglas get paid for his time making that profile?
The dna was of interest though. That was a lot of samples to test back in the day. I thought I read there was a problem with comparison or needing more dna for additional testing now? Doesn't seem to be the case from that article.
And... there was a guy who used to use a freezer to throw investigators off the time of death. Informative and he was for hire..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv4c3flhSaU&feature=player_embedded&list=PL637EA6CA41196698
Anyway, yes Douglas has soiled himself as far as this case goes. A letter would be futile unless he is laying on his deathbed feeling guilty and getting a bit lonely. Timing can pay more dividends than even the biggest bribe. Which reminds me, did Douglas get paid for his time making that profile?
Dedpanman
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Orora - yes, I'm familiar with Richard Kuklinski (The Iceman) and his tricks of throwing off investigators in regards to time of death by freezing his victims. Sometimes he'd leave them in there for years. He messed up though, when one of his victims was found too early by police, and during the autopsy, the pathologist discovered that parts of the body were still frozen. (And, the body was found during the summer.)
I have a feeling that Christine's killer wasn't that sophisticated. Kuklinski was an expert at murder. He spent most of his life perfecting his methods.
I have a feeling that Christine's killer wasn't that sophisticated. Kuklinski was an expert at murder. He spent most of his life perfecting his methods.
I agree with the first line of the KR containing the Douglas profile, and the first 5 lines under the killer (top portion) I can say I know is true, from WPS sister.
Have a feeling the testimony of Neale Tweedy in Legal Affairs 44 needs clarification for some readers. Some may not spot the contradictions immediately.
There is testimony from March 1998 as well. It's not as bad, but not true either.
Have a feeling the testimony of Neale Tweedy in Legal Affairs 44 needs clarification for some readers. Some may not spot the contradictions immediately.
There is testimony from March 1998 as well. It's not as bad, but not true either.
Before going on to NT - why couldn't Christine's killer have thought to put her 'on ice' for a month or more? Maybe not a freezer, but on ice.
It was a rather mild year - no snow before 31 December 1984 - and her head was partially wrapped with enough tissue when found to see bruising. The decomp process would apparently have taken 4 weeks to reach the stage her remains had reached (Page 3).
The first pathologist was incompetent enough to be fooled by that, and have always wondered why the neighbors dog(s) only noticed her on 31 December. That would account for that. I like it orora.
It was a rather mild year - no snow before 31 December 1984 - and her head was partially wrapped with enough tissue when found to see bruising. The decomp process would apparently have taken 4 weeks to reach the stage her remains had reached (Page 3).
The first pathologist was incompetent enough to be fooled by that, and have always wondered why the neighbors dog(s) only noticed her on 31 December. That would account for that. I like it orora.
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Okay, so thinking about Christine's killer having put her "on ice" for a month or more...
Let's say it would take 4 weeks for the body to become essentially bones. Insect activity would be essential for that to happen by December 31. I just wonder if there's still enough insects around at that time.
I will say this, Woodland: there's one piece that sticks out immediately in my mind to support what you're saying. Here it is:
Redrum, page 60. Makin talks about York Region officers arriving at the scene to have a look just as Durham Region officers are loading up C's body:
"So this was it. Three months of heartache and brain fatigue were ending in a board full of bones, frozen maggots and a head wrapped up in a ball of clothing."
If that little detail about the maggots is correct... (and it always made me scratch my head a little) then there was still insect activity happening as late as December for there to be frozen maggots present.
How does one explain that? Was the weather really warm enough to allow blowflies to lay eggs and have them hatch into maggots in December? Is Makin right? Are you right, Woodland? I don't know. Maybe.
Let's say it would take 4 weeks for the body to become essentially bones. Insect activity would be essential for that to happen by December 31. I just wonder if there's still enough insects around at that time.
I will say this, Woodland: there's one piece that sticks out immediately in my mind to support what you're saying. Here it is:
Redrum, page 60. Makin talks about York Region officers arriving at the scene to have a look just as Durham Region officers are loading up C's body:
"So this was it. Three months of heartache and brain fatigue were ending in a board full of bones, frozen maggots and a head wrapped up in a ball of clothing."
If that little detail about the maggots is correct... (and it always made me scratch my head a little) then there was still insect activity happening as late as December for there to be frozen maggots present.
How does one explain that? Was the weather really warm enough to allow blowflies to lay eggs and have them hatch into maggots in December? Is Makin right? Are you right, Woodland? I don't know. Maybe.
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I've posted a satellite image of the general area where Christine Jessop was found (the clear, green rectangle). The road going west-east is the Fourth Concession also known as Brock Concession Road 4. The north-south road is Durham Regional Road 2. If one looks carefully, I believe you can see the remnants of an old railway line to the far right. Its still a sparsely populated area to this day almost 30 years later. In the clear, green rectangle you can see that the property is now developed.
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Nice aerial shot of the lot. Going directly south, to bottom of the shot is the farm where the family that found Christine lives/lived. He could see/hear the commotion of his dog and I believe a stray dog.
Why did it take the dogs until 31 December to detect her? That is the farmer did not notice his dog(s) making a commotion on that lot until then. Plus he had walked the lot more than once for the owner. Suspect he took his dog with him when he did, but I don't know that for a fact.
Why did it take the dogs until 31 December to detect her? That is the farmer did not notice his dog(s) making a commotion on that lot until then. Plus he had walked the lot more than once for the owner. Suspect he took his dog with him when he did, but I don't know that for a fact.
Chuckles, I read page 60 again today as well. When I first read that, it put the idea of a cold place/ice/freezer whatever in mind.
Could she have been frozen after a certain amount of decomp had taken place? Then moved and her remains thawed? A farmer would think of that.
Could she have been frozen after a certain amount of decomp had taken place? Then moved and her remains thawed? A farmer would think of that.
The murder of 21 year-old Debbie Silverman is of great interest to me. Some may not know that Debbie was abducted from outside her apartment building on Bathurst Street in Toronto in August 1978, at about 5:00 am, and was found 3 months later in a shallow grave not far from where Christine was found.
To be exact, Debbie was found on Concession 3 (also marked as Regional Road 13), just north of Highway 7/12. One concession south and 1 main road west of Christine, on the same side of the road and the same distance from the corner. Pretty coincidental.
The thing about Bathurst Street is, one can take it staight to Queensville. Pretty spooky.
I also have interest in the disappearance of 12 year-old Robert Brown in 1968. He lived in the town of Wilfred (northwest of Sunderland) and was walking towards home from nearby Pefferlaw on a summer afternoon. Vanished into thin air.
It just so happens that the location of the remains of Debbie, Christine and where Robert disappeared from are 3 corners of a perfect geographic square. Don't know what to make of that, but do think geography plays a big role in many kidnap/murders.
WPS grew up and still lives near this geographic square. WPS also had family in Toronto up until or beyond the early 80's. Lizzie Tomlinson also comes to mind - disappeared May 24th weekend 1980 and her brutalized remains were found soon after. The killer spent time torturing Lizzie - more time than if rape was the only motive.
To be exact, Debbie was found on Concession 3 (also marked as Regional Road 13), just north of Highway 7/12. One concession south and 1 main road west of Christine, on the same side of the road and the same distance from the corner. Pretty coincidental.
The thing about Bathurst Street is, one can take it staight to Queensville. Pretty spooky.
I also have interest in the disappearance of 12 year-old Robert Brown in 1968. He lived in the town of Wilfred (northwest of Sunderland) and was walking towards home from nearby Pefferlaw on a summer afternoon. Vanished into thin air.
It just so happens that the location of the remains of Debbie, Christine and where Robert disappeared from are 3 corners of a perfect geographic square. Don't know what to make of that, but do think geography plays a big role in many kidnap/murders.
WPS grew up and still lives near this geographic square. WPS also had family in Toronto up until or beyond the early 80's. Lizzie Tomlinson also comes to mind - disappeared May 24th weekend 1980 and her brutalized remains were found soon after. The killer spent time torturing Lizzie - more time than if rape was the only motive.
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