CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough Ont, 19 June 1990 #1

[Woodland]

So the u-turn is the way the road turns and not a maneuver he made on the road to go in a different direction. Thanks.

What makes sense to me is, MB's gf is on her way to the Bain residence to wait for MB to return from work. She is early with the possibility of offering comfort to Mr and Mrs B during a difficult time. I would have to think she called ahead to see if she could come over early, especially at this difficult time. Otherwise how could she be sure they or anyone else would be home.

Seems PB was home and therefore would know the gf is on her way and on foot.

Starting to struggle with PB then decides his car needs to be checked by his mechanic. Could be, I guess - if he planned to use it to search for his sister and wanted to be sure it was in top running condition. Or he had the appointment already, from say the week before or even Monday. But it is afternoon by this time (about 2:00 pm or close to it?) - usually an appointment with a mechanic is 8:00 am - for everyone. They don't know what they will find with any cars they have that day and have no idea how long looking at each car will take. A mechanic will want the car there as opposed to bring your car in at 2:15 or whatever and I'll look at it right then and there.

So he's traveling to his mechanic, and that route happened to cross paths with the gf. She gets in PB's car and he is going to drive her back to his house. Then, suddenly, EB's car is spotted by PB or PB and the gf.

Okaaay - it wouldn't be the first time a family member found their missing relative or their missing vehicle but, the relative would be in the process of looking when they made that find. Usually. Unusual to make that find while driving to a mechanic etc and not actively looking. Very unusual.

Hmmm.

 

[eyesonly]

NS who was the girl with PB after looking in the car took off running up the street towards the Bain house. That was her first instinct, PB caught up to her with the car and said for her to get in and he'd drive her.

 

[Woodland]

Oh my. The car was left unattended then? I get the gf might run toward the Bain house, knowing they are home, but RB leaving the car is not computing for me at this moment.

How would either know EB or someone else wouldn't show up and leave in the car before family or LE could return? That would have been my fear and first instinct as a sibling, even if I was only 19 years old or so.

So soon after, the parents are at the car location, LE is there, both brothers are there as well as the older brothers gf, a set of keys are produced, a specialized OPP truck is on the way (dispatched from Orillia I'm assuming) and even though the detective on-site advises not to tell RB the car has been found, RB shows up? Then a piece of the carpet in the rear of the car is cut - dried blood on top but dripping from the cut piece to the floor of the car and wet pooled blood on the floor?

Then?

 

[eyesonly]

Oh my. The car was left unattended then? I get the gf might run toward the Bain house, knowing they are home, but RB leaving the car is not computing for me at this moment.

How would either know EB or someone else wouldn't show up and leave in the car before family or LE could return? That would have been my fear and first instinct as a sibling, even if I was only 19 years old or so.

So soon after, the parents are at the car location, LE is there, both brothers are there as well as the older brothers gf, a set of keys are produced, a specialized OPP truck is on the way (dispatched from Orillia I'm assuming) and even though the detective on-site advises not to tell RB the car has been found, RB shows up? Then a piece of the carpet in the rear of the car is cut - dried blood on top but dripping from the cut piece to the floor of the car and wet pooled blood on the floor?

Then?

It was PB and NS who left EB's car unattended. Mr Bain and PB came back to the car. Det showed up. Mrs Bain is at home with NS (mb's gf). EB's sister and bf get tithe house. When MB is upstairs getting the keys RB arrives and is told by EB's sisters bf they found the car. When he told RB where it was RB didn't know where 3r auto was so the bf took him down there, RB tried to run to the car but det yelled for him to stop. Then MB showed up with the keys. Also at the house prior to PB and NS first arriving there was also a pastor there and he stayed behind as well.

 

[eyesonly]

The person from 3r I was talking to last year said the police basically took over their office as the command center. Yes they called in a special truck to remove the car to the forensics.

 

[Woodland]

Hmmmm - maybe it's just me being dramatic but -

1. Younger brother PB finds the car belonging to his sister who has been missing about 65 hours or so at this time. To me, or dramatic me, that is closest thing in 65 hours to being able to touch her. And I would leave? Not try to use the closest phone - where I could more or less keep the car in sight?

2. Mom stays at home with her oldest sons gf while the men run to the scene? Again, as a mom, it would be the closest I had come to touching my daughter in 65 hours. And I stay home?

Looking back, I did know complacent women in that era, but none who had a daughter go missing. Still .... the dynamics are clear if nothing else.

Did not realized there was a sister - and she stayed at the house as well?

A very interesting picture.

 

[eyesonly]

You got the dynamics right on woodland. Good to see someone else spot that. The women in the family were not highly regarded. I know someone that was married to EB's aunt, mrs bains sister, after EB's disappearance. Combination of mr bains chauvinist upbringing and mrs bains philipino upbringing.
EB said in her diary that she didn't want anything to do with her dad's life after she married and got out of the house. Her mom yes.
Pretty telling thing for someone to write in their diary.

Yes the sister stayed at the house as well. EB had two brothers and one sister. The youngest sibling PB was adopted

 

[Woodland]

Oh, oh -

EB went to check the tennis schedule?

Was it RB's habit to drive the route through that parking lot to the gym?

Nada for evidence, except blood in the rear seat of her car. Then it shows up practically around the corner from home 3 days later?

Get where I'm going without breaking TOS?

 

[Woodland]

Can you tell us more about that boat eyesonly?

 

[eyesonly]

Mrs Bain stated that EB told her she was going to check the tennis schedule. Whether she did or not we don't know.
Yes I believe that would be the natural route RB would take along old kingston road and past the little valley lot. He didn't drive through the lot to the gym, that can't be done. He came back out to old Kingston road and at 715 went along old Kingston road eastwards and took the first left which went up to the campus lot.

I will try and get more info on the boat.

 

[Woodland]

There is no way to know if EB even drove her car to that lot. I assumed she did, until now.

Who walks into a Crown Attorney's Office volunteering to lie in order to keep someone behind bars? Don't most people want to keep someone behind bars with the truth?

 

[eyesonly]

There is no way to know if EB even drove her car to that lot. I assumed she did, until now.

Who walks into a Crown Attorney's Office volunteering to lie in order to keep someone behind bars? Don't most people want to keep someone behind bars with the truth?

absolutely agree on both points woodland.
one would think you could be charged for offering that kind of offer. so either i truely truely believe that he was guilty and don't care about the consequences for myself, which is realistic as a father, or i need him to stay in jail, stay convicted, stay guilty so no other questions are asked.

 

[Woodland]

Oh what a tangled web we sometimes weave.

Rick Bain is also at the centre of a controversy over whether Baltovich supposedly took incriminating pages from his girlfriend's diary shortly after she went missing.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2008/05/17/new_twist_in_baltovich_acquittal.html

 

[eyesonly]

thanks for finding that woodland, much appreciated. i'm not one for stating things like i did about mr bain and the crown att. without posting the proof to back it up. if i had not read that article previously, i would not have posted the information.

it's an obvious lie that his daughter told him she was meeting RB that day because they would have used that as a crucial piece of evidence.

however, though mr bain always denied it, we have always been pretty sure he talked to EB that day. For him to say that to the crown atty, i bet he would
pass a lie detector test on him talking to her that day, but not on the conversation subject.

so, could EB have said something to her dad on that day, then her dad calls mb and tells him to straighten her out. an accidental death occurs. mb calls dad and dad tells him what to do with the body, as they don't hold women in high regard anyway, maybe something greater to hide, would protect his son at all costs from going to jail, jmo

 

[Woodland]

My theory is very much that something happened in the home that afternoon. And they all know what that was. And RB was set up big time. And Raybould and Reesor helped them out, albeit unwittingly.

Why brother MB over brother PB? Wasn't PB seriously po'd with EB at that time?

 

[Woodland]

I like this article. Raybould writes the manual on 'how not to go about an investigation' imo.

"There is no factual evidence -- none whatsoever -- that Robert Baltovich did not kill her," Toronto Police homicide Staff-Insp. Brian Raybould said yesterday. "Not a shred."

http://rabble.ca/babble/national-news/are-toronto-police-really-stupid-brian-raybould

He actually makes that comment twice in this article. And he was head of the Homicide Squad. $13 mil is a little short, imo.

 

[eyesonly]

MB had a temper, was a narcisist, was verbally and emotionally abusive to his gf, no public evidence of physical abuse that we know of. if you believe RB's accounts that night, then it's clear MB lied on the stand about his whereabouts that evening and night.

Brother PB, could very well be, not much about him really, have to check on his alibi that night. I think there were issues over the use of her car, even though he had his own. I'm not sure if PB was po'd with her at that time, if i posted that previously it would have been from the book.

Dr. Matheson, the person who hypnotised everyone, was descredited between RB's conviction and his appeal. Can't recall to the extent, if it was inappropriation with a patient or something else. One thing was that he was heard to have said that he could get anybody to say anything he wanted them to.
This i believe is why the witness hypnotised testimony was not allowed by the judge at the appeal.

i mean really, if you are a juror, wouldn't you take the original statement over a hypnotised statement. how does a hynotised statement make it into court and a lie detector test doesn't.
they should both not be allowed in court, and used for investigative purposes to help lead to evidence if the evidence is there.

For MP the tennis instructor to say in her original statement that she could not identify RB as the person with EB. but then miraculously after being hypnotised she comes out of it that it was definitely RB with EB at the picnic table. Oh how convenient for the cops. and they made sure she saw a picture of RB before she went into the session.

 

[eyesonly]

I like this article. Raybould writes the manual on 'how not to go about an investigation' imo.

"There is no factual evidence -- none whatsoever -- that Robert Baltovich did not kill her," Toronto Police homicide Staff-Insp. Brian Raybould said yesterday. "Not a shred."

http://rabble.ca/babble/national-news/are-toronto-police-really-stupid-brian-raybould

He actually makes that comment twice in this article. And he was head of the Homicide Squad. $13 mil is a little short, imo.

OMG, lmao, that tells you exactly what they were trying to do. And that's from the guy who would become the head of homicide. The other detective
steve reesor became deputy chief within 5yrs from that conviction, the youngest and fastest ever. makes you wonder.

still lmao, there's no evidence that says you are innocent, so you must be guilty. gee i thought we were innocent until proven guilty in this country, but we know now that is just a myth.

 

[Woodland]

The next time LottoMax hits $50 mil, I think we should all agree to give it to RB.

 

[eyesonly]

Sometime before the appeal RB was offered " time served " if he gave up the location of EB's body.
that's a hell of an offer if someone was actually guilty and convicted already for it. 8yrs of a life sentence and out.
Would a guilty person risk going to take his chances at the appeal with a firm offer of freedom already on the table.
Btw, RB of course turned it down. He couldn't give them something he knew nothing about.

However, there is not one shred of evidence that he didn't know where the body was hmmmmmmm.
Lol