CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough Ont, 19 June 1990 #1

[kemo]

The existence of "brain matter" in the blood found in the car is pretty compelling evidence that EB was killed outside the vehicle. A strong male could use his fist to kill a petit woman like EB, but to hit her hard enough to break the skull and damage the brain, he would need a heavy object and room to swing it with considerable force. There just wouldn't be room in the confines of a Tercel. The amount of blood would suggest that she was immediately put back into the car where she probably died. Probably, the assailant feared someone would see what had happened.

For the Crown's theory to hold, it would have required RB to them drive to somewhere else in the park, where I would assume vehicle access was pretty well restricted to roadways and formal parking areas (is this correct, were there areas a car could drive into the woods where they wouldn't be seen?). He would then have to park along a roadway or parking area, in broad daylight, and move a dead, bloody, body into cover where it wouldn't be seen for two full days. He would then have to clean up and be back at the gym on very short order. I can't buy it. Had he killed her outside the car and just dragged her into the woods, maybe; that was prosecution theory but real forensic evidence would make that pretty much impossible.

I'm still a little confused about this EG#2 from the diary. Was he an "old ex-boyfriend" of EB? (I'm referring to the mention of the "olive-skinned" man RB saw in the timeline on post #433) Am I correct in assuming that he was not short, muscular and had collar length blond hair?

 

[Woodland]

I don't get EG#2 either.

 

[eyesonly]

snively;
can you post the 3 sightings of RB in 3 different clothings that night, thanks

kemo;
EG#2 from diary is ex-boyfriend of EB's, friends for a couple years, bf and gf for a month then she ended it cause he treated to well. same kind of stuff
she said in her diary about RB. the better he treated her the more she wanted to break up.
the olive skinned man was not EG#2, but RB thought he might be as he had never seen him before.
i believe EG#2 was a bit shorter than RB, don't believe he had collar length blond hair, i believe his hair color was pretty close to RB;s.

 

[Snively]

EG#2 was an ex-boyfriend that had recently been calling Liz again. I think his alibi was he was at a completely different park playing beach volleyball. He is NOT the "olive skinned" man RB saw outside Liz's class. I don't think he fit the description of the short, muscular guy with the collar length hair.

EG#1 was a friend of RB's and worked at the UofT campus where RB worked part time. He also tried to get KN to change his testimony he saw RB in the gym to a later time from the 5:10 to 5:30 that KN believed to a later time closer to 7:10. I'm not sure if he was in the gym at either 5:10 to 5:30 himself. I can't find confirmation of that. He was purportedly in the gym after 10:00 playing basketball with RB. I'm not sure about his height but he does appear to fit the description of the muscular guy with collar length blonde hair.

EG#1 did say he was with RB in the gym at 9:15 but this seems to contradict RB's own testimony plus Liz's mother that RB was with Liz's mother at 9:15 then drove past looking for Liz's car at 9:20. I just noticed this discrepancy now actually.

I think the police eventually did determine who the "olive skinned man" was and while he wasn't waiting for Liz, he was able to confirm that RB was on the stairs or landing looking down. I'm not sure if his name was ever published.

 

[eyesonly]

excerpt from book when EG#2 and RB got together at EG#2's request for RB to update him on everything.
"""EG#2, talked about how depressed liz was all the time. how they would go for long strolls on the boardwalk, holding hands----all while her
relationship with RB was going full steam. Although she occasionally gave him the cold-shoulder treatment when they got together (that sounded
like the liz he knew, RB thought), liz would also say things like " i want to be with you, EG#2 and "if i love RB, then why am i here with you"

 

[eyesonly]

RB went to the valley lot before going to EB's home. EB's home is about a 5 min to the campus. So usually people like EG#1 say things like
" well it was around 915," and by the time it makes it to the papers or the cops turn it around if they need too, all of a sudden it's exactly 915.

i don't think we can peg anyone down to the minute, everything happened within like 5 mins of the area any way you go. so it's more than
reasonable that 915 reported for EG#1 could be 920 to 925. nobody keeps a time record of everything they do every night. it is a best guess
scenario.

yes they determined the olive skin man, took a statement from him and never turned it over to the defense. and made RB out to be a liar that
he was never there, and RB had no way of proving he was there other than this guy whose statement never made it to the light of day, gee i
wonder why.
so everyone thought RB was lying and therefore easy to see guilt in that. the statement came to light years later proving RB was again being truthful
on what he did that night.

 

[Woodland]

Fwiw, I don't think EB was killed in the park or anywhere near the park. By extension, I think the killer planned this very meticulously. Jmo.

 

[Snively]

Forensics did suggest a heavy, bloody object was dragged into the car and the amount of brain matter present found in the car suggested she was hit with a heavy object like a rock. Seems fair to me if you accept the killing occurring in the park. Again, somebody dragging a dying body (many believe she was dying but not dead when placed in the car) off a path into the woods and covering it with leaves and branches then grabbing their gym bag from their car and changing from, say, shorts and a t-shirt with blood splatter on them into something clean in the woods definitely is not impossible. I do this nearly every day at work. lol Not the killing part, the changing part! lol

Whether the body was placed in a blanket from her car right then and she was transported to the car is debatable. The Crown contends the body was hidden in the woods for 2 days before being transferred to her car but so many factors tend to show this is incorrect. It seems far more likely the body was moved to her car the same night. The Crown contends she was killed between 5:30 and 7:00 by RB. One thing is for sure is that RB was at the park at about 6:45 as was Liz's car. He was also back in the area of her car at 9:20 with him being the only witness saying her car was not there at the parking lot. Could this have been the time she was killed? Leaves 40 minutes to kill and move the body to her car and change before going back to the gym at 10:00 and staying at the gym until 10:30 when he went home. Another Crown attorney contended that RB then snuck out of his basement bedroom at his parents later that night (call it midnight for arguments sake) and went back to the park to get her car with her body in it and moved it right then.

Between 5:30AM and 6:30AM a car matching the description of Liz's Tercel was seen in the parking lot at Haugen's BBQ in Manchester just outside of Port Perry and on Hwy. 12. The Crown tried to get this restaurant owner to change the date he saw the car to the Friday a few hours before Liz's car was found across from 3r Auto Body at 2:00PM since this better fit their timeline of the car being moved 2 days after she was reported missing (I don't buy this). The man said he was 80% sure it was the morning of Wednesday the 20th. A key chain matching the description of the foam anchor shaped one that was missing from Liz's car was later seen in the dumpster outside the same restaurant by the same man. This would give 2 hours to get the car back to Scarborough (easily done) and parked at 3r Auto Body before the receptionist at 3r says she saw Liz's car parked at 8:30AM.

All the times I quoted were given as evidence in the first trial as I've been able to find as reported in newspapers. I'm putting together a spreadsheet of the timeline from any information I can find (newspapers, Finkle's book) whether they conflict or not and the witness and the detail. I've found over 1600 articles (narrowed down from over 3600) and I'm only about a quarter of the way through. I'll share it (or what I have so far and keep updating) with anybody that would like it, but I'm not sure if attachments can be shared through a private message.

I've left out the witness reports of her car being seen at 3r Auto Body on Tuesday the 19th at 8:00PM since the witness was not able to positively identify either individual she saw and also the report of the sighting on the 401 at 8:30PM. But even if these are considered true sightings the timeline of 9:20PM to 10:00PM still fits.

The one witness sighting I think most of us agree is false, is that of DD seeing Liz's car being driven south on Hwy. 12 on Friday the 22nd. Seems that was almost unanimous in opinions that was made up but for some reason the Crown backed that sighting and their case pretty much hinged on that.

Another reason RB was suspected was that I don't think the police were ever able to find his multi coloured shorts that he was seen to be wearing that night.

 

[Snively]

The clothing RB was seen in was:

KN at 5:10PM to 5:30PM (though he was asked to say a later time around 7:10PM) in the gym. KN insists it was prior to 6:30PM. Lycra bicycle shorts and a t-shirt.
MS at 7:15PM in the gym. Multi coloured shorts.
RC at 10:00PM in the basketball gym. Jeans, crew necked sweater, running shoes and hair gelled back.

I can send you the actual names of the witnesses if you like eyesonly?

 

[eyesonly]

they found the shorts, RB retrieved them from a friends house. detectives were excited cause there was what looked like to be a blood drop on them.
RB said he cut his finger opening a tennis can of balls, they tested the blood and it was RB's. nothing else was found on the shorts.

KN was never sure if it was the monday or tuesday he saw RB. the detectives have a way of getting you to say what they want you to say. and then
testifying to that.

and thanks but i have all the names.

and i agree with woodland and kemo. any way they try to put the theory around RB, it doesn't match the blood evidence.
snively, even if she was left in the park for couple of hours, the body stops pumping blood very soon after death, so there should have been
very little if any blood in the car, other than maybe smears.

also, her blankets that were in the car were accounted for, in the trunk.

 

[Snively]

Thanks eyesonly about the multi coloured shorts info. I wonder if they ever found the lycra shorts?

At 4:00PM on the 19th a librarian at the UofT Library named MW said that RB went to campus police in a bid to see if Liz had checked out a CD. I think MW said she refused to give RB the information so he went to the campus police.

 

[Woodland]

The Crown contends the body was hidden in the woods for 2 days before being transferred to her car but so many factors tend to show this is incorrect.

RSBM

The lack of insect activity would be one. Some of those insects would have been left behind in her car if blood and brain matter was. Raybould et al and McMahon et al should be ashamed of themselves. If CFS failed to give them the heads up on insect activity, it would be the second time from that group in the same era that I know of - hopefully they are ashamed as well. My opinion.

 

[Snively]

Without a body the forensics are obviously tricky to prove. Some would say impossible. Pretty much like the chance of getting a conviction.

The only blood evidence is the blood in her car and on the door sill plus the brain matter. None other was found. Whether she was put in the car immediately or after a few hours hidden in the bush, the forensic theory was that she did take some time to die.

Was the rust and blue coloured blanket that MMV saw while walking her dog, on the passenger seat of Liz's car accounted for? I'm just guessing like everybody about wrapping the body in a blanket. It would certainly be the best way to cover a body while someone was transporting it and how would the police ever prove if a blanket was missing from RB's or EG's or whoever anyone thinks did it, car?

Of all the names floated:

RW - not in the province
PB - tenuous connection at best and too many stretches of circumstance
PM - working that night
MB - means (yes), motive (?), opportunity (?). I don't believe he would hide his sister's body.
EG - means (yes), motive (?), opportunity (yes) I don't know what the motive would be (jealousy?) or if he had the opportunity to move the body
RB - means (yes), motive (yes), opportunity (yes) Crown Attorney believed RB slipped out of his house that night and moved the body

The more I re-read and research the more I come back to RB being the only person who fits the means, motive and opportunity criteria including the opportunity to move the body.

I just don't believe MB would do that to his sister's body or the motive. An accidental push maybe, but not hiding her body.

As for EG I can sure float the jealousy motive but I can't prove it but he almost certainly knew Liz if he was friends with RB and he worked with RB at the UofT. He also quite possibly fits the description of the blonde guy Liz had been seen with (just confirming his height). We'd have to ask the police if they have an alibi for his to move the body. If they asked him of course.

 

[Woodland]

With all due respect have not read anything to promote RB had the means and opportunity to kill EB on the evening of 19 June 1990. Only speculation.

 

[Snively]

CB has said that the "Andre" that was mentioned in her sisters diary was a friend of her sister's that used to like bicycling through the wooded valley where EB was killed.

 

[Woodland]

No one know where EB was killed - including LE and the Crown - it's speculation it was the wooded valley in Col/Dan park. No sign of a struggle, no bloody rock, no shoes/purse etc left behind.

 

[Snively]

No worries Woodland, of course we are all just speculating. Debate is what is required in these missing persons cases, not just yes men and I appreciate the fact you and others are even willing to consider any ideas.

The means could be simple jealous rage and the use of a rock. Sure without a body you can't confirm it's a rock but if you have to say general consensus is the minimum criteria then that would be that she was hit with something heavy. A rock would fit that bill and there are rocks in the park for sure.

Opportunity seems to open up a window from 9:15PM when RB went to EB's house and spoke with her mother to 10:00PM when he went to the gym. RB did say he went back to the park to look for her car but it wasn't there. Yet he is the only one that can confirm or deny this. Either way it puts him back at the last known, 100% confirmed location that both Liz and her car were at. Even considering the 3r and 401 sighting as being possible, these were still prior to 9:15PM and these are definitely not 100% sightings anyways. 45 minutes is plenty of time. It's dark by then so even putting a body in a car wouldn't be difficult. It was said he was spiking basketballs in the gym after 10:00PM yet a friend of RB's who knew him well said he saw him wearing jeans and a crew neck sweater. Earlier in the gym he was seen in lycra shorts and then multicoloured shorts. Would you be playing volleyball in jeans when you have two pairs of shorts with you? 45 minutes. Where did RB go after he drove down to the parking lot looking for her car at 9:20PM (his time setting) and 10:00PM? What did he do for 40 minutes? He does not have an alibi for 40 minutes.

 

[Woodland]

Can't wrap my head around RB went to see EB's mom after killing her - to establish a timeline or alibi? He could have done that at the campus - spoke to more people, spilled something in front of others, faked a fall etc - something that would make others remember an incident.

On the other hand, if he did not kill her but had seen her car in an unexpected location - he would look for her in various locations. After her class seems reasonable, at her home seems reasonable, but doing these things after killing her ... can't get there.

On the jeans and crew neck sweater - if someone reported he was wearing a different set of clothing, at some point RB must have either denied this or gave a reason why he changed. Do you know any details - or this another 'sighting' the cops could make use of?

Btw, I do think a rock was used, just not in Col/Dan park.

 

[eyesonly]

Opportunity seems to open up a window from 9:15PM when RB went to EB's house and spoke with her mother to 10:00PM when he went to the gym. RB did say he went back to the park to look for her car but it wasn't there. Yet he is the only one that can confirm or deny this. Either way it puts him back at the last known, 100% confirmed location that both Liz and her car were at. Even considering the 3r and 401 sighting as being possible, these were still prior to 9:15PM and these are definitely not 100% sightings anyways. 45 minutes is plenty of time. It's dark by then so even putting a body in a car wouldn't be difficult. It was said he was spiking basketballs in the gym after 10:00PM yet a friend of RB's who knew him well said he saw him wearing jeans and a crew neck sweater. Earlier in the gym he was seen in lycra shorts and then multicoloured shorts. Would you be playing volleyball in jeans when you have two pairs of shorts with you? 45 minutes. Where did RB go after he drove down to the parking lot looking for her car at 9:20PM (his time setting) and 10:00PM? What did he do for 40 minutes? He does not have an alibi for 40 minutes.

excerpt from book

""leaving the bains house, ...... i returned to the rec centre and made on e final attempt to fin out for certain if liz had missed her class. One of the people i had seen walk out of liz's class was a fellow student named LP, with her friend KP alongside her. LP was also well aquainted with liz, and i thought that once i
got to the rec center i would try calling her on the phone to see if liz had been in class.
i walked into the gym and saw NW again sitting on the bleachers near the volleyball courts with a group of guys i knew from the campus, RC, TS and JC. I asked NC if LP's bf still lived in on e of the residence buildings. NC said he was now living north of the city managing his parents restaurant or something like that. if that was the case, i thought, LP had probably gone straight home after class.
To make sure she had plenty of time to get home, i waited another 10 mins before going downstairs to call her on the free phone neat the athletic desk, where i asked for a phone book to look up her number. Luckily she was home when i called. She said liz hadn't been in class that night. "are you sure i asked".
"yes". she said "liz always sits in front of me, but tonight she wasn't there"..........
I joined the guys on the bleachers in the gym. they talked sports for awhile, baseball in particular.........and then jack, tony, and rob c, were ontheir way. Nc and i stayed behind talking on the bleachers. At about 10;00, we were joined by RC (eg#1). eg#1 knew me pretty well but he'd been friends with NC for years, and the three of us were feeling pretty laid back, shooting the breeze. after a few minutes, we went out onto one of the volleyball courts to hit a ball around. we chose the courst that had the net adjusted to the regulation height for women, which was a lot easier to spike the ball over. for about twenty minutes, we set each other up with easy balls to hammer into the opposite side of the courts.
everyone had to be out of the gym by 1030...............on my way home i drove through the valley one last time. the silver car i'd seen earlier was still in the little parking area adjacent to the park, but liz's car was nowhere in sight. to me it meant she must have spent the evening at AC's (girls she said she was having dinner with)."""

i believe RB's whereabouts from the bains house till 10;00pm is clearly explained here.

 

[eyesonly]

as for the 3 sightings of clothing, i don't thing anything is really there.
starts out wearing shorts, beautiful day out, changes into workout shorts (that's obvious thing to do) then changes into
jeans as its later at night, prob a bit cooler.
leaves home in shorts, brings jeans in case it's cooler later, and obvious workout shorts,
not sure if he had a locker at the rec center, where his workout clothes would have been kept.

we've all gone somewhere in the day time knowing we are gonna still be out when it's night time and brought pair of pants in case needed.