Found Deceased Canada - Genevieve Cormier, 19, St John, NB, 29 Sept 2013 - #2

  • #581
In searching for information on Canadian pathology reports, I found this article about the percentages of incorrect Canadian death certificates (April, 2013). Slightly OT but it does give cause for concern.

"An estimated 20 to 50 per cent of death certificates are incorrect, the pathologist said."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/doctors-report-cause-of-death-incorrectly-too-often-expert-says-1.1341132
That is a sad story. I would have been outraged--not that it would have gotten me anywhere.

That is a very high percentage IMHO. Makes me wonder if it's caused by lack of training, being overworked, poor record keeping or other factors?
It's a shockingly high percentage.

Possibly all the causes you listed are part of the problem, including 'other factors.'

There are a lot of 'questionable' suicide deaths in the province of New Brunswick. What all is behind it, I don't know, but I think it definitely belongs in the 'other factors' category.

Even if we could get a copy of Gen's autopsy report, it may be inaccurate. I've never seen an official cause of death. Was it "accidental drowning"? Were there ANY indications of any other possible injuries? Any possible signs of a struggle? Gen's body was in the water for a long time so there just may not be any evidence to be found. We may never know.
BBM--I agree with that. Absolutely, 100%.

No 'official' cause of death has been released for Genevieve. The last we heard was that they were waiting on the toxicology report to officially complete the autopsy report.

Are there any pathology experts here on WS?
There used to be one, but I haven't seen her around in ages.

What should a Medical Examiner (ME) have looked for? After a month in the water, what evidence might an ME expect to find or not find? If the ME assumed that it was a drowning death, did they even look for more? Autopsies can tell volumes but you have to know what to look for and have experience to make sense of what you find. Given the circumstances surrounding Gen's disappearance and the other women, I would want a second opinion from an expert pathologist if Gen had been my relative.
BBM -I wonder if a forensic autopsy was even done. I suspect it was termed 'suicide' at the scene, and only the basic, most routine autopsy was done.

Gosh, I didn't know we were allowed to request a second opinion from a pathologist. Interesting.

If we don't think it was suicide or accidental drowning, what do we do next? Is there anything more we can do for Gen and her case? I'd love to read Mike Gorman's article but am unable to access it. This case has been frustrating.
I don't think we can do much more. Their word is law.

On most forums we would not even have been allowed to take our questions this far.

I thank Tricia; and co-management; and all moderators--who have given us this opportunity. :heartbeat:
 
  • #582
In Ontario, Canada, a family member may request an Inquest in writing.

http://www.mcscs.jus.gov.on.ca/english/DeathInvestigations/CommonQuestionsAboutCoronersInvestigations/OCC_common_questions.html

One of the reason for an Inquest can be simply "to make Ontario a safer province". I haven't been able to locate the same Government website for New Brunswick but this is close.

http://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/services/services_renderer.14198.Coroner_Services.html
New Brunswick differs from other provinces.

Our act has not been updated since 1966. Here is a link to it: http://www.canlii.org/en/nb/laws/stat/rsnb-1973-c-c-23/latest/rsnb-1973-c-c-23.html

It appears to be reviewed, but no significate changes have been done to it as has happened in all the other provinces.

Even if there were to be an inquest, I don't believe it would do much good as we are not given a voice in it.

Good article here dated June 13, 2013:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...t-needs-overhaul-lawyers-group-says-1.1314283

And this is one from back in 2003, from a lawyer trying to get it amended:
Quote: The Province of New Brunswick initiated a study of the coroner’s system in 1995, but subsequently the matter was dropped.

The inquest process has been badly flawed from the outset. One of the more glaring flaws is the lack of interested parties to have standing and participate in the process.

http://www.cba.org/NB/pdf/CoronerReform.pdf

The system appears to be currently working for only a certain sector. :/

imo
 
  • #583
  • #584
Linky not working for me.

Thanks Jilly. I had to go to the home page and then search from there. Select the Fire and Rescue then look for the article. It was a good article.

Thanks Truth. I was feeling very frustrated but your post helped me get back to reality. Harsh reality. Hopefully there won't be any more missing ladies from St. John. We can hope for the best.

Thanks to the moderators for letting us discuss Gen's case beyond the normal investigation. It was important in my opinion.:seeya:
 
  • #585
Sorry to keep you waiting Truth!


I forgot their site is behind a paywall (they don't run ads) Does anyone know if posting the entire article here (with the reporters permission of course) would violate TOS as far as copyright goes? I'm still iffy on the rules but have both his print edition here and an electronic copy so there are a few ways I could potentially share it.
 
  • #586
Sorry to keep you waiting Truth!


I forgot their site is behind a paywall (they don't run ads) Does anyone know if posting the entire article here (with the reporters permission of course) would violate TOS as far as copyright goes? I'm still iffy on the rules but have both his print edition here and an electronic copy so there are a few ways I could potentially share it.
Hi, GinaBeth!

No worries, I knew you would drop in as soon as you could.

It might be best to send a quick PM to one of the mods--that's only a suggestion, please don't be offended by it. :)

If nothing turns out, I would even appreciate a link to where I could pay to subscribe. I'm desperate to read it.
 
  • #587
Pm'ing a mod is probably wisest :) No offense taken whatsoever. The link to their site is http://www.frankmagazine.ca/ and it's in the January 13th issue if you decide to go that route. He wasn't able to get any new info for us sadly but it brings the speculation about her death to MSM. I will admit he said some things that made me want to kick him to the couch for a night or two but he also made some valid points.
 
  • #588
Sorry to keep you waiting Truth!


I forgot their site is behind a paywall (they don't run ads) Does anyone know if posting the entire article here (with the reporters permission of course) would violate TOS as far as copyright goes? I'm still iffy on the rules but have both his print edition here and an electronic copy so there are a few ways I could potentially share it.

CMIIW mods, but no more than 10% of an article can be quoted to stay withing TOS.

However, if say something is 10 pages, I would not copy an entire page from it. I believe to stay on the safe side, I would only take less than 10% of any given page. In other words, only taking snippets that do not add up to more than 10%, rather than taking a continuous chunk...

I am sending pm to mod to double check this.
 
  • #589
Pm'ing a mod is probably wisest :) No offense taken whatsoever. The link to their site is http://www.frankmagazine.ca/ and it's in the January 13th issue if you decide to go that route. He wasn't able to get any new info for us sadly but it brings the speculation about her death to MSM. I will admit he said some things that made me want to kick him to the couch for a night or two but he also made some valid points.
Thank you so much, GinaBeth.

It's an article in a well-profiled magazine--even if we don't like every word!!

Big hugs for this:
 
  • #590
Thank you so much, GinaBeth.

It's an article in a well-profiled magazine--even if we don't like every word!!

Big hugs for this:


:blushing: Thanks Truth! If you get a chance to read it feel free to give honest feedback, my DH is good at taking even the worst of it. (Trust me he gets plenty around here!)
 
  • #591
:blushing: Thanks Truth! If you get a chance to read it feel free to give honest feedback, my DH is good at taking even the worst of it. (Trust me he gets plenty around here!)

Will you be able to post any snippets Gina?:seeya:
 
  • #592
Thank you so much, GinaBeth.

It's an article in a well-profiled magazine--even if we don't like every word!!

Big hugs for this:

Truth I know where you can purchase Frank Magazine in Moncton. It is at Reads News and Cafe. I got one today and am reading article now. Really do not know what to think. If you are going to purchase one do so soon they don't have a lot in stock.
 
  • #593
:blushing: Thanks Truth! If you get a chance to read it feel free to give honest feedback, my DH is good at taking even the worst of it. (Trust me he gets plenty around here!)
OMG!

I had no idea he would use direct quotes from our thread!

Yikes! I'm rather relieved that the SJPD declined comment.

Seriously, I hope he realizes that Inquisitive_Kat is a verified insider. Here is a link to the thread so he can see what they have to go through to get that distinction.

Verification Process for Professional or Insider Posters - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
 
  • #594
Truth I know where you can purchase Frank Magazine in Moncton. It is at Reads News and Cafe. I got one today and am reading article now. Really do not know what to think. If you are going to purchase one do so soon they don't have a lot in stock.
Thanks, Sandpiper.

I managed to make my way in to an online version. :)

Did you get a chance to read it?
 
  • #595
OMG!

I had no idea he would use direct quotes from our thread!

Yikes! I'm rather relieved that the SJPD declined comment.

Seriously, I hope he realizes that Inquisitive_Kat is a verified insider. Here is a link to the thread so he can see what they have to go through to get that distinction.

Verification Process for Professional or Insider Posters - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

I did show him that and explained the difference before it went to print but his editor wouldn't allow more than 900 words in the article which really crippled some of his points.

ETA- That's actually the exact point I was considering making him sleep on the couch over!
 
  • #596
I did show him that and explained the difference before it went to print but his editor wouldn't allow more than 900 words in the article which really crippled some of his points.

ETA- That's actually the exact point I was considering making him sleep on the couch over!
BBM - Yes, I can see where that may have been in order.
 
  • #597
  • #598
  • #599
I think there is a workaround in progress
Yeppers. :)

It is available, so if anyone hasn't seen it yet; let us know.

I think we have all listened to the following video more than once by now, (except me, because my computer won't play it.) However, it's an interesting refresher in light of some of the things said in the article. (I have it on good authority that this link still works.)

This video makes it quite clear that law enforcement did a little more than privately suggest to Genevieve's family that she may have taken her own life.

Does the 6 pm evening news sound private to anyone--because it doesn't to me.

CBC News: New Brunswick at 6:00 | Nov 4, 2013 | 30:01
New Brunswick - November 04, 2013
CBC TV news and weather from New Brunswick

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada/NB/ID/2415900030/

Notice the date of the video. Genevieve was only found on Saturday afternoon, the 2nd.

This was the following Monday; and interesting to note, they only slightly amended their printed article, this video stood as the last statement from anyone in law enforcement.

The video is for the full evening news on that day. I don't believe Genevieve's clip is right at the start, but if it wasn't the lead story it was probably the 2nd--so, not very far in; if anyone wants to review it.
 
  • #600
As far as I know, we have never received any update.
th_smiley_waiting.gif


CBC NewsPosted: Nov 04, 2013 11:57 AM AT|Last Updated: Nov 04, 2013 7:37 PM AT

Police will provide an update once they receive the medical report from the Saint John Regional Hospital's pathology department, Henderson said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...ected-in-death-of-genevieve-cormier-1.2355421
 

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