Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #19

[CanadianSleuther]

I could see them being tied to LD's murder with that vehicle, but the LF & CD murders are the real head scratcher. I also don't understand how they could have stolen the SUV and moved the pickup truck, if only one of them was a driver.

That had crossed my mind as well, but I also assume that Bryer could have driven a mile. Driving in it's self isn't too difficult especially on a deserted highway. Unless the truck has broken done and they went walking and saw the vehicle. Maybe taken it, then noticed the dead body or killed him, panicked and driven back to the truck to light it on fire.

 

[MistyWaters]

I'm not convinced it was a double suicide. My operative theory is one was too chicken to kill himself, having been 'brave' and 'true' enough to murder strangers, ( which, it is more than likely , were perhaps , as their last community act, kind to Kam and Bry for no reason other than that they were strangers, pretending to be in need ) and the other hadn't finished with the requirement to murder. I don't see any reason to assume otherwise, so far.

I’m reminded of books written about voyageurs lost at sea and how people viciously begin to turn on one another as food supplies become scarce and cold and wet conditions cause physical discomfort to increase. But in that situation it’s a matter of basic survival and no decision making can change the outcome.

In their final hours, I agree, it wouldn’t surprise me either if one took the life of the other. Either through agreement or a result of a dispute. I imagine hostility and blame levied against each other because their escape from BC didn’t end as expected. Maybe one shot the other so the first one dead couldn’t back out and surrender.

 

[Jan424]

I’m not sure “confession” is the right word here. Maybe “bragging” is more appropriate?
.

SBM
Yes, if anything was said, it would be more like bragging. JMO

 

[Trooper]

Why any stranger was responsible for murdering L&C and LD is way beyond the realm of rational thinking IMO.

But the rest stop and the location of the burning truck was only about a mile apart. That’d be an appx a 15 minute walk to the rest stop. For all we know they were lurking there, waiting for a potential victim.

Surely the RCMP would be horrendously remiss in not keeping up a red flag warning for the whole area of Manitoba for an unknown killer, prepared to kill women and men at whim and at will. That would be the rational response, and one that obviously, the RCMP has discarded on the preponderance of evidence.

How terribly coincidental then that there were three killers roaming the very particular part of Canada's highways, ON THE SAME DAY.. it calls for a mighty leap of logic, one I am not prepared to indulge.

 

[Trooper]

I’m reminded of books written about voyageurs lost at sea and how people viciously begin to turn on one another as food supplies become scarce and cold and wet conditions cause physical discomfort to increase. But in that situation it’s a matter of basic survival and no decision making can change the outcome.

In their final hours, I agree, it wouldn’t surprise me either if one took the life of the other. Either through agreement or a result of a dispute. I imagine hostility and blame levied against each other because their escape from BC didn’t end as expected. Maybe one shot the other so the first one dead couldn’t back out and surrender.

exactly!

 

[Inkblot]

The OPP now has a new series on murderers who kill multiple people and how they link the crime scenes called "OPP Investigative Lens: Serial Instinct". The first episode in the series is "Catching Serial Killer Dellen Millard". It's under 10 minutes and talks a bit about how police did their work, and comments that murderers go on to get sloppier at later kills as they get convinced they can't be caught.

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I wonder if KM and BS felt they could get away with anything after the slow start to the LF and CD investigation. Perhaps they burned the truck to be more brazen, and not to hide their tracks? They were actually trying to get attention?

Wow! This is great. Amazing detective work. Now I can't wait to watch the whole series. Very interesting. Thanks for the link.

 

[Inkblot]

The term used, before Prof. Dyck's family closed it down , was 'brutal violence'. As brief as that. 'Gun violence ' was another term used.

Bearing in mind, that when Kam and Bryer got to Prof. Dyck's vehicle, they were , by any measurement, experienced and committed murderers, determined and ruthless. They were not disgusted with themselves, nor concerned, nor seeking anyone to surrender to.

And since Chynna Deese's brother said, he believed the reason why it took so long to identify Chynna and Lucas, ( Kam and Bryer's experimental first venture into thrill murder ) was because of the indescribable violence done to Chynna and Lucas, it perhaps doesn't require a huge stretch of imagination to grasp that the method used in Prof.Dyck's murder was out of all proportion to the stealing of a vehicle.

Yes, and Trevor Pierre (the road worker who came upon Chynna and Lucas) described the scene as "gruesome" and "I don't know how anybody could live with themselves after doing what I saw," he told CTV News - So, you can just imagine.

 

[MistyWaters]

Some people want to help others, who have flaws. They don't distance themselves (thank goodness, or we wouldn't have nurses, doctors or teachers). Not all of us automatically distance ourselves from people who others find distasteful. It's not "normal" to do so, not for all humans. Some people do distance themselves, some of us do not.

Why would we want to send the message to others in similar circumstances, who’s life isn’t instantaneously the way they expect it to be, that choosing to murder innocent strangers is an acceptable option?

It’s not okay and that’s why we convict and lock away killers. Murder is utterly “distasteful” to society in general and so it should be. Nobody is entitled to snuff out another person’s life by violence without any justification whatsoever.

 

[SovereignSnake]

We also don't know yet how much contact Kam had with his parents between the 12th and say the 18th since nothing has been released or admitted. I mean Alan actually showed his conversation with Bryer to several media outlets which, as we saw was totally unrequited but perhaps not intentionally. Kam was more likely to have had some kind of periodic cell phone signal and was probably casually texting, may have even taken a call. I mean 2G is all you need. I imagine perhaps he texted his parents but then the term "friends" sticks out when I reread that press release. Were they just generalizing i.e. posting on social media, posting comments or did someone actually come forward and say; "Oh hey, Bryer/Kam actually texted me on the 12th, 15th, 18th, etc. from Kam's phone, here's what they said..." Even if they did it might have been just light banter and nothing substantial. I could be totally wrong. I can't help but feel if they were talking to other kids round their age something would have leaked by now. Even if Kam was talking to his parents here and there it was probably just casual; "we're fine, we're going here, we're going there, no worries, etc. I'm curious too if they ghosted everyone starting on the 19th. Also, I don't mean to make them sound like social outcasts or anything, but most of the kids we heard from that the media interviewed were just kind of fair weather friends and coworkers. No friend has come forward that truly knew them on a deeper level like Kam and Bryer new one another. I get the impression their social circle was mostly a two man show and that's perfectly okay.

 

[CanadianSleuther]

How terribly coincidental then that there were three killers roaming the very particular part of Canada's highways, ON THE SAME DAY.. it calls for a mighty leap of logic, one I am not prepared to indulge.

I mean weirder things have happened. Chances are Kam and Bryer had killed all three of them, but there is enough doubt, based on what we do know to say that they might not have.

 

[MistyWaters]

I mean weirder things have happened. Chances are Kam and Bryer had killed all three of them, but there is enough doubt, based on what we do know to say that they might not have.

I don’t know what doubt there can be given the RCMP haven’t yet released the “facts and evidence”. Wouldn’t that come later, if people are unsatisfied with information provided in the update?

“Police said within a few weeks they are committing to providing both the families and the public with an update on the "totality of the investigation."

The BC RCMP's Dawn Roberts told CTV News that update will be based on facts and evidence, and acknowledged that already complex questions about motive have grown even more complicated since the suspects' deaths.”
Murder suspects died of 'suicides by gunfire,' autopsy results suggest: BC RCMP

 

[Chingaling]

Not meaning to be contrary here and I don't mean to offend, but I genuinely don't understand the sympathy that the suspects are garnering here at all. I feel sadness for their victims, not for BS or KM.I don't feel sad for BS looking at the pics of him in his suit because not too long after that pic was taken he took the lives of three people and destroyed their families. Even if they didn't kill LF and CD (I think they did) they killed LD, who had a wife, two sons around the same age as the killers, and extended family that needed and loved him.

They had no reason to go out an murder three innocent people, robbery gone wrong or not. I can't imagine what their angle was, I hope it'll come out in the police report, but these two were not "good kids" in any way and imo, they're both equally responsible for what happened. Imo, these two fed off each other and encouraged one another in whatever dark, disturbing fantasies they had, and them knowing/befriending one another, their final acts of violence against innocent people was the culmination of a perfect storm that brewed for years.

They hung with each other for years, they knew what the other was about. I still feel that KM was more of the leader than BS who we know had a very dark quality about him. Obviously it was way, way beyond trying to be edgy. Sure there's edgy, but BS was obviously a million light years past edgy when he and his buddy went out and killed three people.

Others have said that they distanced themselves from BS because they found his words and his behaviour disturbing - that would be the normal thing to do. KM had to have shared at least some of those qualities, otherwise he wouldn't have wanted to associate with BS, and he certainly wouldn't have gone and brought two firearms on an extended road trip with him.

The presence of two guns found with the bodies indicates to me that this was at least partially planned. Canadians generally don't go on road trips or camping armed, and it wasn't hunting season at the time of the murders. If they were concerned about wildlife, they could have purchased some bear spray brought along some noise makers but the fact that they had two weapons with them tells me concerns about wildlife attacks weren't on their minds whatsoever. It would even be a stretch if they brought one gun for protection, but the fact is that they had two - so imo, they had something loosely planned at the very least. If they were so sad, depressed, hard-done-by and whatever, and on a suicide mission as AS suggested, then why didn't they simply drive into the wilderness and off themselves instead of killing three others?

I live in the US and if we go out in the woods we are most definately taking a gun.If I were to find myself sleeping in a pull out{never happen} I would certinally have a gun.We have just recently had an open carry law,no license required.

 

[Optics]

This request was in relationship to the murders up north gives you an idea on the cell phone 'dead zone' by the Regional District involking the Stikine River (essentially the Dease Lake road https://www.nelsonstar.com/news/sho...-into-cellphone-dead-zones-on-rural-highways/

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Some people want to help others, who have flaws. They don't distance themselves (thank goodness, or we wouldn't have nurses, doctors or teachers). Not all of us automatically distance ourselves from people who others find distasteful. It's not "normal" to do so, not for all humans. Some people do distance themselves, some of us do not.

I beg to differ. In most cases people distance themselves from those who are different for shallow reasons, they're too quirky, have no dress sense, speak funny etc. Not enough people leave those who trigger the red flags, like talk of beheading someone or they enjoy the idea of killing or raping another person etc. The amount of victims on this site who've endured intolerable treatment at the hands of these 'flawed' people is astounding. One thing I've learned recently, if a partner says they've dreamed that you died, it's a very bad sign.

Psychologists are trained to help these 'flawed' people but it's their victims who make up the bulk of their clientele. Not enough people listen to their gut, sadly, it's a survival instinct we sometimes choose to ignore, not that it would've helped Lucas and Chynna and Leonard, they were targeted by these fiends in an isolated area.

I don't know how much we'll eventually learn about K and B. Bryer had already expressed his violent thoughts to a classmate, it seems she distanced herself from him while another person liked it and understood where he was coming from, I assume this was K. JMO

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I genuinely believe that the desire to murder three people, in cold blood, without any known motive whatsoever, can hardly be categorized as a 'flaw'.... That is a hell of a stretch and one that , in one fell swoop, negates law, justice, social cohesion and protection of the human species..

If, say, murder is merely a 'flaw'... what is the point of the panoply of jurisprudence, the organization of law enforcement, law itself? .

I don't see a lot of merit in helping those with that particular 'murder' flaw.. what would be the point? It is perfectly normal to distance oneself from these kind of people who, as a choice, as a sentient, reasoning choice, chose to murder.

And one can say, oh, the 'snap' theory, the 'couldn't help myself' theory, the 'she made me do it' theory, and so on ad nauseum, all diminish each of the humanity of the whole. It should not be tolerated.

Well said! I made a post before seeing yours.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Thanks for finding this! I had googled the logo for this shirt just to see what it was but never actively read the description.

I have found Kam's Cathulu shirt on several specialty T-shirt sites. I didn't find it on Amazon, but it would not surprise me if it were available there.

The description of the Under Armour shirt again makes me wonder if Kam did more outdoorsy stuff in general than Bryer. Maybe not too surprising since he was raised by the lake. But I can also definitely see him digging the graphic and wanting it for that reason alone.

I've noticed in general that in the limited number of pictures I have seen, Kam's clothing, though never what anyone would probably consider trendy, does seem to skew more toward T-shirts (you can see a T-shirt collar in some of his cropped pics, even though you can't see what the shirt is) and seems a little more lively than Bryer's wardrobe for that reason. It was actually kind of striking to me how little I saw Bryer in anything with a logo on it. The only thing I can really think of in Bryer's wardrobe that I have seen in pictures that was even remotely flashy was that suit.

All MOO

Oh yes! I thought I read a post about the Cathulu shirt, no idea where I got Amazon from though lol... Interesting. Yep, he seems to like graphic T's.

I always thought Under Armour was kind of status brand like Lululemon or something, but maybe not so much anymore as I think it's a $30 shirt. Lately I've seen little kids wearing shirts with Under Armour logos which I find odd (it is Victoria after all, I shouldn't be shocked!)

I think Kam definitely would've liked the caption and logo too. Very curious if he was actually outdoorsy or not too. I hope we find out more about him soon.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I’m guessing Kam was more into the skull graphics of the shirt rather than the fabric performance. I saw the cathulhu shirt on a couple of websites. However, I could only find that design on hats available on Amazon.

I think so too. I'd be surprised if he was outdoorsy but am curious to know one way or another.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

To me, they just seemed like they are the easiest target to pin the murders on. The reality is, they haven't been tried in a court of law, only in the media. None of the evidence that allegedly points to them (much of which hasn't been shared with the media) has been tested in a court of law, and yet people were calling for their heads. Let's say these guys were in fact set up, someone else committed the murders, that's not being disrespectful to the victims. I'd rather see the actual perps caught, instead of sweeping this thing under the rug.

SBM - I have to disagree. In Canada our media is pretty tame compared to the US and it's hard to persecute innocent people via media. If anything, it's the opposite - they don't let out info to taint the public/potential jurors for when the crimes go to trial.

In high profile cases police seem to make it a habit to keep info close to the vest and rarely let out evidence to the public. They are pretty diligent on protecting the integrity of the cases I've followed, as most go to trial. In this situation, all eyes are on them from the US and AUS so they aren't going to F-around and be whimsical.

I bet they have a ton of evidence on these two, all JMO.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Not meaning to be contrary here and I don't mean to offend, but I genuinely don't understand the sympathy that the suspects are garnering here at all. I feel sadness for their victims, not for BS or KM.I don't feel sad for BS looking at the pics of him in his suit because not too long after that pic was taken he took the lives of three people and destroyed their families. Even if they didn't kill LF and CD (I think they did) they killed LD, who had a wife, two sons around the same age as the killers, and extended family that needed and loved him.

SBM - Thanks for posting this. I wanted to post something similar as I felt there seemed to be quite a bit of softness expressed towards B&K.

I get that most of us think it's sad when young people go out and do crimes so senseless they impact and victimize their own families, their victims and victim's families and has a ripple effect. Nobody wins.

It's a fine line and a tough one though - especially if mental illness is involved as most people want to feel some empathy if someone can't help it. If mental illness is involved, professionals are the best option not being nice. Just like if someone has heart problems they go to a cardiologist as garnering sympathy and niceties from strangers won't cure the problem.

If bullying is involved, then I think it's fair to be empathetic and nice to someone who might just need a friend or friendly gesture. Of course, who can really diagnosis this stuff!

Personally, I will almost always take the side of the victims first. It's frustrating having been exposed to someone terrifying but then others around who have never been exposed to violence want to be humanitarians and quip - "he's not that bad, he's just socially awkward, he's harmless, don't worry he won't do anything, he's really intelligent" - like it's okay and almost defending the culprit which to me is backwards. All MOO

 

[Trooper]

To my mind, there is a solid reason why no friends of these two young men have spoken out. Parents, yes, that's what Dads and Mums do, but no one else, and that makes it pretty plain that these two, Kam and Bry were off people's radar in a big way, a difficult position to maintain in a small town.

No teacher, scout leader, music tutor, no employer, no colleague from Walmart, ( and yes, I know the mayor of Port Alberni had asked people not to speak with reporters ) no nothing. And that is most unusual, which makes me think the RCMP has interviewed a hell of a lot of people around that small town and the consensus is one of these two being a bad thing on the way to happening, for a myriad of reasons that are not clear as yet.

That they didn't fool everyone, all the time, but only some people, some of the time.