Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #19

[MistyWaters]

The unfortunate reality is that parents are often not a child's top priority. Parents get taken for granted. Also, this is a parent that didn't raise him.

B and K could easily have gone through Alberta. The route through Jasper and Grand Prarie would add 1:20 above the most direct route. There are lots of jobs in Grand Prarie. It's possible they did go to Alberta first, for whatever reason, which would certainly explain Bryer's text.

If there’s lots of jobs in Grande Prairie why weren’t they in Grande Prairie working? By now the RCMP will know the timeline of their travels but other than the text to AS, we have no indication whatsoever they were job hunting in Alberta. People don’t find jobs on a flyby, which certainly that route would’ve been to be in the Laird area by the night of July 14th. Besides, Alberta boom times are over and unemployment for unskilled youth is 11.8%, the highest of any category. Anyone living here could’ve told them to look to their own province where opportunities are far greater.
Youth Unemployment in Alberta: Part I | The Owl

 

[whiterhino]

Tried to separate my comments, your reply and my response to your replies below:

To clarify, I am just speculating. None of my posts are stated as fact.

**I'm extremely curious to know what other things they got up to online, what their search history and Youtube history looks like.**

We have no information on any of this at this time. A news article stated Kam had a Youtube channel for gaming, but it wasn't linked and nobody has been able to find it. I'm sure the RCMP has a ton of information on their internet activity though (probably why the report is taking so long).

I wish someone had archived Bryer's Instagram after the 19th but before it was scrubbed, because I've heard there used to be more stuff on there. Unfortunately I didn't follow this case until the 24th and a lot of information had been taken down by then. Either way the data is stored in the servers for a while after it's deleted, so I'm sure the RCMP has it.

>Oh, I know that there isn't much out there that anyone has discovered yet but there's definitely something. Someone must have screenshot something. The fact that there isn't more of a trail is suspicious. I have a feeling they were trolling the internet for awhile before they set about their plans.

These 2 seem like 4Chan trolls who spend their time in the comments and making memes about dead animals Imho.

In the screenshots on Steam you can see other players usernames, there has to be at least one person other than Bryer and Kam that knows something and is keeping their mouth shut. There are comments on Bryers' Steam that express condolences, R.I.P and "bruh".

Anyone know anything about the vampire "emoticon" image they both posted on June 4th? Kam posted on Bryers first and then Bryer posted a few hours later. The fact that there is a gap in the time shows that they weren't next to each other or even online at the same time.

Wonder what they were up to when they were NOT together?

**Wasn't there some history of mental health issues or something mentioned?**

Kam has no confirmed history of mental health issues that we know of. In fact, no information has come out about either of them ever being diagnosed with anything beyond Bryer having "learning difficulties." We have speculated on it extensively though.

> For some reason when they were first listed as missing, I could've sworn that there was mention of mental health issues or concern for their mental health. Maybe I misread?

I know that BS was in some kind of alternative school. Wondering if it had anything to do with telling that girl he would cut off her head?

**I can't help but think that Kam calling himself the "Angel Of Death" was an indication of something dark.**

It could be relevant, or not. Angel of Death is one of the most famous metal songs of all time, and teenagers often have usernames along those lines. But, that song is also about Josef Mengele, and if Bryer had an interest in Nazi stuff, Kam probably did too. So who knows. However he had that username for a few years so I don't know how relevant it was.

>Imho it's relevant. To refer back to Luka Magnotta, we know from his internet presence, his choice of usernames and activity reveal his online persona. Many of LMs usernames hinted at well known SKs'.

The fact that Kam possibly choose that username at such a young age kind of screams "look at me, I am morbid" Imo. I realize a lot of kids do this kind of thing, choose usernames that are in poor taste or hint at the personality they're beginning to develop.

I think it's a hint at Kams' mindset, not just a nod to heavy metal. Angel of Death is also used to describe a certain type of SK. Angel of death is like the reaper. B&K committed not only homicide but suicide... makes me wonder if Kam had some kind of power trip complex, like being able to decide if someone dies or not. Also, Bryer seemed like he was on a mission. Maybe Kam thought he would help bring his friend some peace?

Is there anything to indicate that Kam was as into Nazi "stuff" as well? To me, the fact that Kam deleted so much and seems to have hidden things is kind of telling.

I can't help but think Kam had done something bad and was trying to erase it. Something in my gut says he was playing "death" and making burials in the forest. *Just my own projections and imaginings, I am NOT saying this actually happened*

**As some posters have said, the parents house was up for sale.**

It was up for sale before the murders? That's the first I'm hearing of that.

>Did I say before? An assumption made by me. This is why it would be great to have things a bit separated into facts or what is known.

I assumed their house was already for sale. Again, I must have misread.

So they put it up for sale after the fact? Because I had started to wonder if that wasn't maybe a factor in Kam deciding to take off... Wrong again!

**A lot of serial killers start out killing small animals and often have some kind of experience with hunting.**

So far we have no evidence of any of those things, although it's possible.[/QUOTE]

>I know and I have no proof. Just pointing out a common fact among serial murderers. Yes this is true there's no evidence (yet, did they search the Mcleod property?) but from everything we know of murderers and SKs', A LOT of them start out small. When you factor in age etc, I can easily see these 2 being the type to hurt helpless beings.

Could this be part of the "war games in the woods" story from AS. Practicing?

I just don't see 2 teenage guys on the border of adulthood going off on a murderous "spree" without having any prior exposure to violence aside from video games. I've known guys like this. They are the kind who rip wings off a butterfly or legs off a spider.

Also, I have to say that between the 2 of them, Kam looked like he was in rough shape in the Meadow Lake footage. He looks disheveled and the expression on his face seems... like he is lost or something. Meanwhile, Bryer seems like he took a lunch break and didn't come back.

Another question: Where did the pork chops come from?! Did they buy them and cook them along the way? Did they buy them at a restaurant? Has this been discussed already?

Apologies to those who find my posts tiresome... I just want answers like everyone else.

 

[CanadianSleuther]

Also, I have to say that between the 2 of them, Kam looked like he was in rough shape in the Meadow Lake footage. He looks disheveled and the expression on his face seems... like he is lost or something. Meanwhile, Bryer seems like he took a lunch break and didn't come back.

I thought the same thing. From the moment I saw that footage I thought Kam looked tired, nervous and distracted. I'm thinking if they did commit those murders it looks like he was feeling some kind of guilt.

 

[sandbar]

I thought the same thing. From the moment I saw that footage I thought Kam looked tired, nervous and distracted. I'm thinking if they did commit those murders it looks like he was feeling some kind of guilt.

It's possible KM did most of the driving as BS didn't drive. That's a LOT of driving.

 

[Trooper]

I thought the same thing. From the moment I saw that footage I thought Kam looked tired, nervous and distracted. I'm thinking if they did commit those murders it looks like he was feeling some kind of guilt.

Oddly, I clocked it entirely differently!.. I thought Kam looked like a man in charge, alert to the max, keeping his eye on the camera, and keeping Bryer behind him, issuing instructions in a very low voice, which Bryer appears to be attuned to, specifically. From this, I concluded that the appearance at the store had a lot of significance to them, they didn't appear to buy anything, ( I still think Bryer shoplifted something small and flat and rectangular ) but it seemed to be an appearance for the sake of …. stamping their authority ( as they see it ) on the RCMP , the populace at large, Canada in general and humanity in total.

I put our perspectives on this video clip as perhaps a culture gap , we just see things differently...

I truly saw nothing I would put down as 'guilt'.. the exact opposite, there was triumph and 'up yours', and 'watch me stroll around wherever I want to' in it, for me....

 

[CanadianSleuther]

It's possible KM did most of the driving as BS didn't drive. That's a LOT of driving.

I don't think Bryer did any driving to be honest.

 

[Trooper]

It's possible KM did most of the driving as BS didn't drive. That's a LOT of driving.

Maybe Bryer did the driving of the vehicles , the part where they are driven into ditches.. perhaps he was the 'demolition' factor in the partnership. I reckon he did some of the driving, but not a lot, they had to clip along at a fast pace, and can see how him not being allowed to take the wheel every now and then would be a source of sharp moments of deep sulking.

 

[CanadianSleuther]

I truly saw nothing I would put down as 'guilt'.. the exact opposite, there was triumph and 'up yours', and 'watch me stroll around wherever I want to' in it, for me....

I guess it could really be looked at from either angle. They could have been wandering around because they wanted to be seen, but also could have been wandering around, because they were worried, on edge, tired and didn't know what to do. I do think Kam had more street smarts then Bryer, and really had much more to lose.

 

[CanadianSleuther]

Maybe Bryer did the driving of the vehicles , the part where they are driven into ditches..

I think if he did any driving it was up until Cold Lake. I bet after they got stuck in the mud, Kam would have said he was driving as he had the license. But I still think he did all the driving.

 

[whiterhino]

I thought the same thing. From the moment I saw that footage I thought Kam looked tired, nervous and distracted. I'm thinking if they did commit those murders it looks like he was feeling some kind of guilt.

Kam looks slightly ill Imo. Like the gravity of things was setting in. That could have been an out for him. He could have bailed on Bryer so many times.

It's possible KM did most of the driving as BS didn't drive. That's a LOT of driving.

I feel the expression on Kams face and the look in his eyes is saying more than "I'm exhausted from driving".

In his eyes, there is some kind of hopelessness or a look that says "Point of no return". It's as if he is disappointed like he was expecting to find something in that store.

In the footage of Meadow Lake Co-Op, Kam looks almost like a hostage (I'm not saying he was a victim, just interpreting what I see, Jmo etc). Bryer is behind him as if he is prodding Kam along.

Then there is a point when Kam stops and looks at something on a shelf, like something caught his eye. I've watched that clip 50 times and cannot identify what caught his eye on that shelf. It's in front of a display sign that says "Food Saver".

Another thing I found bizarre is the numbers on the aisles they were in. Is it just coincidence that they went down aisles 19 & 18? Because it aligns with their ages in respect to Kam being ahead and Bryer being behind.

 

[CanadianSleuther]

Kam looks slightly ill Imo. Like the gravity of things was setting in. That could have been an out for him. He could have bailed on Bryer so many times.



I feel the expression on Kam's face and the look in his eyes is saying more than "I'm exhausted from driving".

In his eyes, there is some kind of hopelessness or a look that says "Point of no return". It's as if he is disappointed like he was expecting to find something in that store.

I agree with that assessment. He had a lot to lose. I can see him thinking about life back at home, about his parents, his sister, and I can see that eating away at him. Not to mention it's very likely that his parents bought his truck for him, and the camper was theirs and they let him use it.

Add in driving so many hours, with guilt, probably not eating well. I could see him going into the Meadow Lake store for no reason then just a change of scenery, to think, to distract himself temporarily. Maybe he was hoping Bryer wouldn't have followed him and he wanted to use his phone.

All I do know is he probably was unravelling emotionally. The scary thing is Bryer while maybe a little antsy, his expression was blank.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Oh, I know that there isn't much out there that anyone has discovered yet but there's definitely something. Someone must have screenshot something. The fact that there isn't more of a trail is suspicious. I have a feeling they were trolling the internet for awhile before they set about their plans.

These 2 seem like 4Chan trolls who spend their time in the comments and making memes about dead animals Imho.

I agree they were most likely on 4Chan (and Reddit). I don't know about the dead animals thing though. And there were a lot of things out there that we know about...the Nazi knife and armband, the gun in mouth picture, the Airsoft pictures, the "speaking of politics" thing...enough to paint a picture.

In the screenshots on Steam you can see other players usernames, there has to be at least one person other than Bryer and Kam that knows something and is keeping their mouth shut. There are comments on Bryers' Steam that express condolences, R.I.P and "bruh."

Some of those people probably knew him and those were genuine condolences. Some were probably just people joking around trying to be edgy. Either way I don't see how leaving a message on his page means they had some secret insider information.

Anyone know anything about the vampire "emoticon" image they both posted on June 4th? Kam posted on Bryers first and then Bryer posted a few hours later. The fact that there is a gap in the time shows that they weren't next to each other or even online at the same time.

I believe people said it was a character from an anime, which was also Kam's profile picture on Facebook.

For some reason when they were first listed as missing, I could've sworn that there was mention of mental health issues or concern for their mental health. Maybe I misread?

I know that BS was in some kind of alternative school. Wondering if it had anything to do with telling that girl he would cut off her head?

I've never heard that about the mental health issues. Do you have a link?

Also both of them were in the alternative school -- Kam graduated in 2018, and Bryer may or may not have graduated in 2019. The alternative school is called the Eighth Avenue Learning Center VAST program, and from what I can tell it seems to be more for students with learning disabilities, like a more personalized attention thing, rather than severely emotionally disturbed students. The 60 Minutes interview said Bryer had "learning difficulties." Judging by the few comments they left on Steam and Instagram that we have seen, both of them seemed to barely have a grasp of the written word...like I literally wrote better than that in third grade. My theory is they were both dyslexic, and Bryer also may have had ADHD...JMO...and I don't think that's related to their crimes.

The fact that Kam possibly choose that username at such a young age kind of screams "look at me, I am morbid" Imo. I realize a lot of kids do this kind of thing, choose usernames that are in poor taste or hint at the personality they're beginning to develop.

I think it's a hint at Kams' mindset, not just a nod to heavy metal. Angel of Death is also used to describe a certain type of SK. Angel of death is like the reaper. B&K committed not only homicide but suicide... makes me wonder if Kam had some kind of power trip complex, like being able to decide if someone dies or not. Also, Bryer seemed like he was on a mission. Maybe Kam thought he would help bring his friend some peace?

Or...it could have been because it was for a gaming site and a lot of the games they played involved killing opponents. I don't see anything unusual about his username and I doubt he was trying to send a message about being a future killer years later. I think it's a very typical username for a teenage gamer to use.

To me, the fact that Kam deleted so much and seems to have hidden things is kind of telling.

Where is the evidence that he deleted stuff? His Facebook was deleted but it most likely wasn't by him, because it was deleted when they were in the woods and possibly dead already.

I assumed their house was already for sale. Again, I must have misread.

So they put it up for sale after the fact? Because I had started to wonder if that wasn't maybe a factor in Kam deciding to take off... Wrong again!

Where is any evidence that their house was/is for sale, now or prior to the murders? I have never heard that.

>I know and I have no proof. Just pointing out a common fact among serial murderers. Yes this is true there's no evidence (yet, did they search the Mcleod property?) but from everything we know of murderers and SKs', A LOT of them start out small. When you factor in age etc, I can easily see these 2 being the type to hurt helpless beings.

Not all of them do, though. For example, the Columbine killers never hurt animals -- in fact Eric Harris was said to be very attached to his dog and even stayed home from school to take care of it when it was sick. I don't think we should assume they did that unless there's evidence. Usually the type of kids who do that, aren't very secretive about it, and the other kids know.

 

[sandbar]

I dunno, I really don't think there is enough information known about either KM or BS to draw an unbiased, even partial, psychological sketch of either of them. I don't think BS looks any more blank than KM in the video from the co-op. I do think they are both looking for something though.

I can't say there's been enough evidence to draw the conclusion that KM followed BS' lead, any more than the other way around.

I wonder if it's kinda like KM's family said nothing, so he's a blank slate that we project our fears or rationalizations for him being involved. Whereas BS's dad responded very publicly in a disarray and so we read BS as whacked too?

 

[MistyWaters]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

When the PC was held announcing the cause of death to be suicide, the RCMP stated they wouldn’t be making further comment until the conclusion of the investigation and release of update to the families, then the general public. So I guess it’s just a matter of them keeping to their word?

The final report into the lone shooting in LV took almost two years. The report into the lone shooting in Greektown, Toronto almost one year. If this investigation is fully completed within a couple months, including such things as toxicology results and receipt of docs from warrants for chats from apps from non-Canadian companies I think that’d be remarkably efficient. Had this case gone to trial it would’ve been many months before all the evidence was turned over to the defence.

If the final conclusion of this investigation is hasty the next criticism towards the RCMP will be their investigation was shoddy. They really can’t win - if people want to find a reason to criticize police they’ll be sure to find one.

 

[MistyWaters]

I dunno, I really don't think there is enough information known about either KM or BS to draw an unbiased, even partial, psychological sketch of either of them. I don't think BS looks any more blank than KM in the video from the co-op. I do think they are both looking for something though.

I can't say there's been enough evidence to draw the conclusion that KM followed BS' lead, any more than the other way around.

I wonder if it's kinda like KM's family said nothing, so he's a blank slate that we project our fears or rationalizations for him being involved. Whereas BS's dad responded very publicly in a disarray and so we read BS as whacked too?

I agree. Take any one person as an example, then ask 10 others, online friends, acquaintances, classmates, relatives, co-workers what their perception of that person is and it’s guaranteed opinions will vary.

The notion that the two were described as nice and polite - so how can they be murders - somewhat raises my eyebrows as well. As if there’s a stereotype - every criminal is screaming out swear words, slamming doors in peoples faces, with little demon horns on their heads so anyone with the potential to murder strangers can easily be recognized at first glance. This is the trap many a victim has fallen into - “oh but he was clean, well groomed and he seemed nice until.....”.

The saying “a wolf in sheep’s clothing” has been around ever since the story of Little Red Riding Hood was first told.

 

[MistyWaters]

Where is any evidence that their house was/is for sale, now or prior to the murders? I have never heard that.

I’d like to know the source for this as well. IIRC reportedly K’s family left town because of the media presence. Is this being misconstrued into they moved????

 

[acutename]

saw a new to me picture of BS:

Father of suspect in 3 B.C. deaths expects son will go out in 'blaze of glory'

and he looks much more happy/healthy/normal than the other pictures that have been publicized. not sure what the date of this picture is.

 

[Trooper]

I agree with that assessment. He had a lot to lose. I can see him thinking about life back at home, about his parents, his sister, and I can see that eating away at him. Not to mention it's very likely that his parents bought his truck for him, and the camper was theirs and they let him use it.

Add in driving so many hours, with guilt, probably not eating well. I could see him going into the Meadow Lake store for no reason then just a change of scenery, to think, to distract himself temporarily. Maybe he was hoping Bryer wouldn't have followed him and he wanted to use his phone.

All I do know is he probably was unravelling emotionally. The scary thing is Bryer while maybe a little antsy, his expression was blank.

I think the inferences you draw are fair, and under the circumstances, reasonable.. The human mind, a normal mind, say, has to reconcile the fact of the two bodies of Lucas Fowler and Chynna Deese, brutally, violently murdered, their lives extinguished in the worst way, alone on an empty highway, being taken, one is entitled to assume, by surprise, and probably by deception, along the lines of 'hey, do you know the way to Yukon?' kind of introduction, then, the slaughter. And not quickly done, either, as Miss Deese took some time to die as evidenced by the state of her body,.. God alone knows how long it took Lucas to die.

This has to be weighted by the hazy and indistinct picture of two polite young men, perhaps on the cashiers desk ( I doubt this as both appeared to be almost illiterate ) ringing up the change out of $10 for a 2 pac of undies. One has to think they practiced on some other living thing, somewhere, and this is common among killers, generally speaking. Yes lots don't, but a hell of a lot do. That's the thing.

Maybe they were unravelling, certainly their own deaths would verify that very thing, but they still took their time about it. That is, they took the unravelling to the limit. And perhaps that is the only worthwhile action they ever took in their very short , destructive lives.

 

[Zella]

I’d like to know the source for this as well. IIRC reportedly K’s family left town because of the media presence. Is this being misconstrued into they moved????

No, it was Bryer's mom and stepdad who said they left town. Kam's family said they were basically barricaded in their home because of the media. I've never seen any indication they were planning on moving, and sleuthing the family isn't permitted, anyway.

MSM sources for Bryer's mom leaving town/McLeods feeling trapped at home:
Port Alberni searches for answers as manhunt for murder suspects continues
Port Alberni rocked by national manhunt for local teens after first believing the pair was lost in the bush

 

[Trooper]

saw a new to me picture of BS:

Father of suspect in 3 B.C. deaths expects son will go out in 'blaze of glory'

and he looks much more happy/healthy/normal than the other pictures that have been publicized. not sure what the date of this picture is.

Bry looks mighty pleased with himself, ….. that is rather creepy considering the future that played out …..


“A normal child doesn’t travel across the country killing people. A child in some very serious pain does,” Schmegelsky said in an emotional interview Wednesday in Mill Bay, B.C., near his home in Victoria.

Sure, also a child who is a psychopath travels across the country killing people. A child who is a sociopath, a child who is plain bad and determined to be so, a child with a pal attuned to the same wavelength also would do that. One of your quiet maniac children would do that.

Just because AS likes to hug this diagnosis as a comfort to himself doesn't mean that it is the correct diagnosis. It is possible that Bry's father didn't see him clearly as he imagines, and there are grounds for that assumption, as his grasp of reality in a whole lot of other areas is frail , to say the least. AS could be just plain wrong on this, no earthly reason to assume he is in any way psychiatrically on the money.