Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #19

[KR72]

It's very interesting that they believed, or even hoped, their bodies would be found. And yet that was very difficult and most searchers would have given up looking for them.

And I find it the absolute height of arrogance that they felt that entitled to make requests for their remains.

 

[KR72]

The decision to allow AS visitation rights would be made through Family Court. The process would begin with a psychological assessment of AS. The results of that assessment must have indicated that it was in Bryer's best interest for a court-appointed social worker to arrange the visits, and to also be present during the visits.

For sure, it's just that I thought I read here that AS didn't see his son for several years. I may be remembering wrongly though.

 

[LoisLane]

To their credit, Bryer's mother and grandmother have remained relatively silent during the entire timeline of events. John McNab, Bryer's great-uncle, who acted as family spokesman in an interview, also said nothing whatsoever about any family acrimony. So, all we have to go by is AS's version of events, which seems to focus nearly entirely on himself. Perhaps we should take that with a grain of salt, and he should stop his histronic rantings that show absolutely no respect for anyone involved in this sad situation.

In the video interview John McNabb did not acknowledge the father at all and IIRC his version of events did not factor in the Dads involvement in regards to the usual visit that would have happened. He described B’s lead up departure as if they were in full knowledge and support. If we consider the father’s account of being told last minute and the maternal side of the family’s bon voyage - that for me demonstrated the alienation which is a quieter acrimonious subtlety.

ETA:
Interview with BS’s Great Uncle:

 

[Trooper]

SBM
She could have been shot in the face or back of the head. But just because the guy who helped them didn’t mention defensive wounds doesn't mean they weren’t there or maybe not significant. It’s also possible Chynna tried to defend herself after seeing Lucas shot but was overpowered quickly. If so I can see them wanting to “punish” her even more. Of course, JMO... speculating here along with everyone else since facts are so skimpy.

She could have been punched and kicked in the face, a rock slammed into her, run over by either vehicle numerous times, any and all and every possibility that resulted in a brutal death, which was not a quick death, as has been discussed before, in regard to the statement by the person who discovered the body . .. It took a very long time to identify Miss Deese.

Shooting would have been only one method. Because of the short duration of their program, I figure lack of ammo had a lot to do with the number of victims, and their victims manner of death. The guns may have been used to threaten and over power their victims, but it isn't definite that all were shot.

By the time they got to Prof.Dyck they would have discussed it over and over again, what they did, what they did right, what they did wrong, how they could improve, what to expect, how to achieve a result with perhaps less, or , perhaps more violence, who does what best, who did this bit better, who should have a turn at this aspect of murder, who . .. and so on, perhaps watching video's of themselves to work out a more efficient process. .

Certainly, murdering Miss Deese and Mr Fowler did not steer them in any way into another path of achieving a bit of a rush, or getting further into Canada.. Murdering people seemed to have , after the reality as opposed to the fantasy, an attraction and not a repulsion.

It seemed to have encouraged them in their endeavors to get another notch on their belts.

 

[Satchie]

I still wonder if they threw the undisclosed items that the searchers found into the bushes near the river as a marker for the searchers to find them. I wasn't sure from the description of the terrain, but it sounded to me from what they said, that possibly the items were found in the river at the bottom of a cliff face, and Kam and Bryer's bodies were at the top.

I also assume they must have had some sort of waterproof container to put the phone in, like a Ziploc bag. That's why I don't think they filmed their actual suicides, because if it rained the phone would be destroyed.

That would be good to know if they did, IMO it would indicate they were quite rational and intelligent. That would mean they could put themselves in police shoes and visualize the scenario from the police's perspective after they were dead.

The other alternative is maybe they were paranoid and convinced police had sort of magical powers and would locate them. Or not even being that rational, just assuming narcissistically that, of course someone would find them, lying for eternity in heavy brush was unthinkable.

 

[NJSleuth91]

That would be good to know if they did, IMO it would indicate they were quite rational and intelligent. That would mean they could put themselves in police shoes and visualize the scenario from the police's perspective after they were dead. The other alternative is maybe they were paranoid and convinced police had sort of magical powers and would locate them. Or not even being that rational, just assuming narcissistically that, of course someone would find them, lying for eternity in heavy brush was unthinkable.

Well, all of these are possible. Or it could just be a "we don't know if anyone will ever find us, but just in case." But also this was a huge search effort with helicopters, dogs, etc. They also didn't get that far and were actually pretty close to the Rav4 burn site (only about 5 miles away). I think it was fairly rational of them to assume they would be found at some point, especially after decomposition set in (and I think decomposition helped lead the police to their bodies). The main reason why the general public didn't think they would be found is because most people thought they got a lot further than they did, and/or drowned in the river.

 

[Esprite]

SBM

Why would he? It's not in his family's best interest to open up that can of worms to the media. Bryer's dad doesn't have enough of a filter to know that being open to the media will just make him be vilified.

There is significant evidence of family acrimony outside of Bryer's dad's interviews. Bryer's neighbor (the mother of one of his former friends) said that he had a "s****y life" when she knew him from ages 11-13 (after his dad was out of the picture), that he was at her house all the time because that was where he could have fun (she also emphasized how her house always had lots of food...no comment) and that she still felt bad for him because of what he had to grow up with. Plus the fact that he moved in with his grandmother due to not getting along with his mom, but his grandmother and great-uncle both described him as well-behaved and a "great kid." They're not going to open themselves up to questions about all that. That's probably why they chose a non-immediate relative as their spokesperson, so if any questions like that are raised, they can be like "I don't know anything about that." JMO.

Overall it seems like a good strategy. It's a balance between people asking "Why aren't they saying anything? What do they have to hide?" like they are with the McLeods, and oversharing like Bryer's dad is doing.

If AS has no filter, and simply doesn't care how he's affecting Bryer's other family members, then he needs to buy a filter immediately. We also shouldn't assume that Bryer moved out of his mother's house only because they weren't getting along. Perhaps, the grandmother could provide him with more stuff, and didn't pay as much attention to what he was doing. Also, in my experience, teenage boys of single mothers are usually more abusive to the mother, than the other way around.

John McNab, Bryer's great-uncle, is a well-respected businessman and politician in Port Alberni; he was very well-spoken and forthcoming throughout the interview, although seemed quite shaken, as would be expected. Being the relative of a murder suspect cannot be easy by any means, and reporters often overstep the boundaries of decency, bent on being the first to break new information in a story with the flimsy excuse that the public demands that information.

AS is the only member of Bryer's family with past charges and convictions from not following court orders, and restraining orders involving Bryer's mother and grandmother that he often ignored. AS needs to grow the h*ll up stat.

 

[Trooper]

For sure, it's just that I thought I read here that AS didn't see his son for several years. I may be remembering wrongly though.

In his own words, he said he didn't see Bry from 8 to 16 years, that Bryer was bought up by television, video games, …….

 

[srper2]

It is interesting to note that it appears the video surveillance provided by LE to news outlets was not actually found by Police through their own investigations, but found by the store owner who contacted Police. There would be more video surveillance showing BC and KM's pathway, but if store/petrol stop owners have not searched their security videos and found it and LE has not made time to check footage along possible routes, their actual pathway may never be known. I am wondering if KM and BS resorted to using cash so as to not leave an electronic transaction trail, but ran out of money before they intended. It is pointless to flee across the country leaving an electronic transaction trail as you go (or a trail of burning vehicles directly linked to you)! If police were able to follow electronic transactions, they would have known the route KM and BS took, but they were instead relying on public reports of sightings. If someone had not approached the attending police and told them they thought they saw a body 2 k's down the road from KM and BS's burning truck, would the burning vehicle have been put out and LD's body left lying on the side of the road until somebody else reported it? LD must have been killed very close to the truck being burned, or someone else would have seen and reported his body previously. Police were led to the area near KM and BS's bodies following reports from a member of the public (the sleeping bag downstream) followed by a helicopter search, then finding a damaged boat. I cannot believe that there has been nothing at all said about the man reported to have been arguing with LF and CD sometime close to the time they were killed (Yes, Police followed it up and he wasn't involved, or, no, we just didn't bother to follow him up)! I feel that if KM and BS hadn't totally and repeatedly led police to themselves by the repeated vehicle burnings (obviously they didn't learn from previous experiences!), and two of the murder victims hadn't been international tourists, the (alleged) killers would never have been found. Very much like the numerous murder victims on the "highway of tears".
- Link in which it is stated that the store owner saw KM and BS on her surveillance video and contacted police:
Northern B.C. murder suspects inside Meadow Lake Co-op store | Vancouver Sun - Thủ thuật máy tính - Chia sẽ kinh nghiệm sử dụng máy tính - Kienthucmang

 

[Trooper]

And I find it the absolute height of arrogance that they felt that entitled to make requests for their remains.

It must have been a real wrench to finally say good bye to their phones, their lifeline, their companion, their link to humankind, the artery that feeds them validation, and , perhaps in their eyes, status, the one and only other voice and opinion apart from their own.

I imagine they wrapped those artifacts very , very carefully, slowly, tearfully possibly. A huge break and a goodbye to fantasy and a horrible, colossal hello to reality.

My hero, Hunter S Thompson, is famous/notorious for his eulogy of Richard M Nixon, especially his obituary funeral arrangement alternative suggestions where he felt Nixon's body should be shot from a chute off the San Clemente pier straight into the mouth of a hammerhead shark, … and I see Hunter's point, in regard to Kam and Bryer. ..

 

[NJSleuth91]

If AS has no filter, and simply doesn't care how he's affecting Bryer's other family members, then he needs to buy a filter immediately. We also shouldn't assume that Bryer moved out of his mother's house only because they weren't getting along. Perhaps, the grandmother could provide him with more stuff, and didn't pay as much attention to what he was doing. Also, in my experience, teenage boys of single mothers are usually more abusive to the mother, than the other way around.

John McNab, Bryer's great-uncle, is a well-respected businessman and politician in Port Alberni; he was very well-spoken and forthcoming throughout the interview, although seemed quite shaken, as would be expected. Being the relative of a murder suspect cannot be easy by any means, and reporters often overstep the boundaries of decency, bent on being the first to break new information in a story with the flimsy excuse that the public demands that information.

AS is the only member of Bryer's family with past charges and convictions from not following court orders, and restraining orders involving Bryer's mother and grandmother that he often ignored. AS needs to grow the h*ll up stat.

He has mental health problems. I don't think it's that simple as "buy a filter" or "grow up."

Point is, there are a lot of questions and Bryer's great-uncle is not going to put himself in a position where a reporter is going to interrogate him on any of that. Let's put it this way, the reporter asked Bryer's dad if the Airsoft rifle "planted a seed," but reporters are never going to ask Bryer's grandma that even though she was his legal guardian at the time, because she's not going to put herself in a position where the media will ask her that.

I don't think they're lying about what they do know, as it will all come out in the report anyway. But I do think they are not going to tell the media about any family acrimony that may be going on, or their feelings about Bryer's dad, because there's no reason to.

 

[KR72]

In his own words, he said he didn't see Bry from 8 to 16 years, that Bryer was bought up by television, video games, …….

So then, which is it? He didn't see Bryer when he was eight - 16, or he had supervised visits with him?

 

[Trooper]

So then, which is it? He didn't see Bryer when he was eight - 16, or he had supervised visits with him?

Maybe AS is speaking metaphorically.. Perhaps he believes that a supervised visit only counts as a non visit, there fore, 'didn't see him from 8 to 16'.. Hard to tell with AS., . Perhaps he means he didn't see Bryer father to son, privately, cozily, etc, as the visits were supervised. Not counted as a parental 'visit'.

Supervised visit to me means a lot was going wrong, and people in authority were taking no chances of more going wrong , hence the supervision. .. Usually it means that it is the parent that is being supervised. That is, the order is on the parent, not on the child as having to be supervised whilst with the parent. …

I think I have that right.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Also, to clarify, I don't see it as a bad thing that they are being guarded from the media. I think it is very wise, considering the media thinks it's acceptable to take creepy close-up pictures of Bryer's grandma's lawn ornaments, and ask questions like "do you think your son murdered people because you bought him an Airsoft rifle?" If they did talk, the media would probably twist everything they said to make them look as bad as possible. I wouldn't talk to them either and if I had to, I'd send someone else to do it too. All I'm saying is that it makes sense that they aren't going to talk about any issues they're having with Bryer's dad, previous family issues, the funeral arrangements, etc. (in fact they haven't even been interviewed in, like, a month)

 

[Esprite]

In the video interview John McNabb did not acknowledge the father at all and IIRC his version of events did not factor in the Dads involvement in regards to the usual visit that would have happened. He described B’s lead up departure as if they were in full knowledge and support. If we consider the father’s account of being told last minute and the maternal side of the family’s bon voyage - that for me demonstrated the alienation which is a quieter acrimonious subtlety.

ETA:
Interview with BS’s Great Uncle:

Alienation happens all the time in families where one family member stalks, lashes out, utters threats, or otherwise breaks the court's decisions, without any real regard for other family members, or the child well-being.

 

[Esprite]

He has mental health problems. I don't think it's that simple as "buy a filter" or "grow up."

Point is, there are a lot of questions and Bryer's great-uncle is not going to put himself in a position where a reporter is going to interrogate him on any of that. Let's put it this way, the reporter asked Bryer's dad if the Airsoft rifle "planted a seed," but reporters are never going to ask Bryer's grandma that even though she was his legal guardian at the time, because she's not going to put herself in a position where the media will ask her that.

I don't think they're lying about what they do know, as it will all come out in the report anyway. But I do think they are not going to tell the media about any family acrimony that may be going on, or their feelings about Bryer's dad, because there's no reason to.

Of course, he has mental health problems, which were evident from the get-go. He refused psychological help at that time, which was mandated by the court, and would have been covered by the BC healthcare system. That's on him, and not Bryer's relatives. In other words, he refused to comply with court orders, and lost access to his son by doing so.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Of course, he has mental health problems, which were evident from the get-go. He refused psychological help at that time, which was mandated by the court, and would have been covered by the BC healthcare system. That's on him, and not Bryer's relatives. In other words, he refused to comply with court orders, and lost access to his son by doing so.

If he really does have a delusional disorder as was alleged, not complying with treatment is pretty much textbook behavior. And it raises the question of how much awareness he has of his actions and their consequences. But, of course, if he does have a delusional disorder or other serious mental illness, that raises the question of whether it violated journalistic ethics to interview him at all.

 

[Esprite]

My husband just ordered me away from his work computer, because the keyboard is smoking. I've wrecked pretty much every dang computer in this house. Nite y'all. Really enjoyed the debate.

 

[sandbar]

JMO and directed at no one: the convo about AS is getting not nice.

 

[sandbar]

dbm