Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #8

[APVille]

Here’s the thing though, and this is coming from someone who was beyond optimistic last night:

They were spotted at a specific place, at a specific time.

Authorities arrived on scene quite quickly.

They believed these guys were contained to a small area, and there doesn’t appear to be an easy egress route.

I simply cannot fathom them not being found, especially with a surge in manpower, the benefit of daylight, and hours of searching.

So I’ve flipped completely, and I’m not happy about it.

Exactly. When I heard they were spotted yesterday, I thought catching them was imminent. I could buy waiting til Daybreak. But now, given the technology at the RCMP’s disposal, I have a hard time believing the sighting was legitimate.

 

[10ofRods]

Hi guys- I’m new on this site and have been lurking along only for this case. I’m in the US but it popped up on my Twitter moments and I’ve been captivated by it since.

I really thought given the heat sensing technology, etc, that if the York Landing sighting was legit, they would have caught them by now. Are we on the same page that the sighting was probably not them? Kind of puts into question that whole Bear Clan and the guy Favel that was on the news.

Edit: given this presumably false sighting, I am going back to my original theory that they were well on their way out of there by the time the rav4 was discovered.

No one has updated us on how well the heat sensing tech worked last night, if there was rain. How long did it even fly? How many FLIR units do they have? It's a big area.

 

[otto]

Hi guys- I’m new on this site and have been lurking along only for this case. I’m in the US but it popped up on my Twitter moments and I’ve been captivated by it since.

I really thought given the heat sensing technology, etc, that if the York Landing sighting was legit, they would have caught them by now. Are we on the same page that the sighting was probably not them? Kind of puts into question that whole Bear Clan and the guy Favel that was on the news.

The RCMP were a day behind the suspects when they arrived in Gillam. Would the suspects sit around waiting for police after they burned the Rav4? It was a good effort by all parties, but the information that guided them was either old or incorrect.

 

[Jessthinkin]

If the First Nation people are as prone to misidentification and hoax as some Websleuthers think, then RCMP may be up to its ears for a long time, responding both to First Nation villages and to anyone else who thinks they see these two.

We do not know that there was *no* evidence and eyewitness accounts are in fact a form of evidence.

I just think RCMP doesn't know what to do next. They're not in Gillam and they're not in York Land itself.

It's always possible that eyewitnesses are mistaken. It's possible these two are dead, actually. But RCMP is going to be going on more of these kind of missions, until they give up. Doesn't mean the two suspects aren't still out there, though.

I wonder if it's possible they fled into the water last night (pursued by a bear, feeling trapped, hearing the helicopter, etc.) and drowned...

I just cannot fathom that that sighting was wrong...or maybe I'm just really disappointed... :/

 

[Francie Starr]

DBM

 

[afitzy]

Hi guys- I’m new on this site and have been lurking along only for this case. I’m in the US but it popped up on my Twitter moments and I’ve been captivated by it since.

I really thought given the heat sensing technology, etc, that if the York Landing sighting was legit, they would have caught them by now. Are we on the same page that the sighting was probably not them? Kind of puts into question that whole Bear Clan and the guy Favel that was on the news.

Edit: given this presumably false sighting, I am going back to my original theory that they were well on their way out of there by the time the rav4 was discovered.

If you get a chance check out the videos about the Bear Clan and its work and you might have a shift in thinking. The group is trying to solve issues in local communities that have baffled LE all around the world.

I also found the interview done with the Bear Clan folks that allegedly saw the 2 suspects to be compelling and heartfelt. This was the first time the group had supposedly left its home turf in Winnipeg so I give them alot of credit for trying something untested and working to assist local groups that have no ongoing law enforcement.

I give Bear Clan lots of credit for going into what could have been a very dangerous situation unarmed and knowing that RCMP backup wasn't going to be immediate (think the turnaround time from tip to RCMP was 20 min yesterday if I recall). Not sure how many citizens would volunteer to go into a potentially risky situation unarmed when the RCMP has made the claim that at least 2 people involved with the suspects were the victims of "gun violence".

Following up on tips is always a process of win some/lose some but you do it because so many cases get solved this way in my experience. I think the Bear Clan coming in was a creative solution to a situation and I give all involved credit for trying. It probably makes sense to do the classic scenario evaluation at some point and review mission guidelines and volunteer training but absent more information I find it hard to be anything but supportive of the Bear Clan.

 

[10ofRods]

I was just thinking could they somehow hide under the water if they're near the river or bog/marsh? Would the heat D whatever thing pick up an image if it's under water? They can hear the plane coming and dive under till it passed over. Just wondering hmmm

There are a few ways of defeating FLIR imaging techniques and several limitations to plane- or copter-mounted units (do we even know for sure that they used either? Did they bring up the big plane from Gillam? How long did it take to get there? Did the copters each have a unit?) Depending on terrain, they could have used another method besides water.

 

[Xyzzia]

I mentioned long ago, they could have bought crossbows at Walmart, for hunting, etc.

It could be anything you're absolutely right. The cops / news media stated skated Lucas and Chyna wete the victim of gun violence. But that doesn't mean they were shot with bullets.
An LD we don't know exactly how he was killed. I don't recall the RCMP saying he was shot. I was actually thinking along the lines that they might have ran him over while stealing his vehicle and perhaps they use that fancy knife that they bought and killed him.
There's theories and speculation from the public, there's also theories and speculations from the media. And then there's very few facts given to the public and the media by the RCMP and local detachments. So pretty much most of what we talked about is just guessing.

 

[Francie Starr]

I agree that there has been no clear information provided on the cause of death of Mr. D and they are only suspects in the other murders. The victims died far more than 7 driving miles apart from each other! Torching their vehicle and taking Mr D's makes no sense, and running from the law also seems to have made things far worse for them, but none of what has happened appears to make any sense really.

My bad. You are absolutely right. I meant to type more than 7 HOURS apart from each other!

 

[10ofRods]

There are also those foil sheets to sleep under and conserve body heat. Maybe they are more prepared than we know.

These also throw off FLIR, of course.

 

[Ruprect]

I think "hoax" is a bit strong because it gives the impression of an intent to mislead. The RCMP has been looking for just 24 hrs now. They'll probably keep looking.

Yes I agree. Sorry about that. I have always lived in rural communities in Australia. I can recall two places where the local volunteer firefighting brigades have asked people to leave because they were discovered actually starting fires. I have no idea if volunteer patrol brigades have similar issues so it was unfair of me to do that...

 

[greenfern]

DBM you people post too fast!

 

[APVille]

If you get a chance check out the videos about the Bear Clan and its work and you might have a shift in thinking. The group is trying to solve issues in local communities that have baffled LE all around the world.

I also found the interview done with the Bear Clan folks that allegedly saw the 2 suspects to be compelling and heartfelt. This was the first time the group had supposedly left its home turf in Winnipeg so I give them alot of credit for trying something untested and working to assist local groups that have no ongoing law enforcement.

I give Bear Clan lots of credit for going into what could have been a very dangerous situation unarmed and knowing that RCMP backup wasn't going to be immediate (think the turnaround time from tip to RCMP was 20 min yesterday if I recall). Not sure how many citizens would volunteer to go into a potentially risky situation unarmed when the RCMP has made the claim that at least 2 people involved with the suspects were the victims of "gun violence".

Following up on tips is always a process of win some/lose some but you do it because so many cases get solved this way in my experience. I think the Bear Clan coming in was a creative solution to a situation and I give all involved credit for trying. It probably makes sense to do the classic scenario evaluation at some point and review mission guidelines and volunteer training but absent more information I find it hard to be anything but supportive of the Bear Clan.

I knew nothing about the Bear Clan but part of the reason I trusted their sighting was because of the things you said, and how much respect they were getting online. Do we know how many Bear Clan members claimed to see the suspects? The part about the clothing was particularly specific. And they were either right or not.

 

[dotr]

July 29 2019 rbbm.
'The manhunt is on here:' Manitoba chief talks about search for murder suspects
"The last confirmed sighting of the two suspects was a week ago in Gillam, another remote community roughly 90 kilometres northeast of York Landing.

Before that, the pair were also spotted in Split Lake, a community about 170 kilometres west of Gillam.

Nathan Neckoway, a councillor for Tataskweyak Cree Nation at Split Lake, said the two men fuelled up at a local gas station. They also went through a checkstop and were questioned by band constables who did not know at that time the men were murder suspects.

The men had camping gear and maps in the back seat of their vehicle, Neckoway said in an online message.

“This is scary to hear how easily these guys were travelling from Western Canada and now in our territory.”

 

[PaulR]

This isn't a game? Lanius

No, that's just a wiki page on a character from the game.

New Vegas is probably the best of the Fallout games, certainly from a writing perspective, and sold over 8M copies

Global Fallout all time unit sales 2019 | Statista

 

[afitzy]

Is there any chance that the RCMP believe someone is helping these two out? I was so hoping that the sighting at the dump would lead to an arrest...

Complete speculation on my part, I'm probably grasping here, I know, but is there any chance the Mounties are feeding the public disinformation to lure the suspects out?

Interesting idea as I am still betting that the initial 'missing' narrative was a piece of creative writing/policing from the RCMP as they hoped to get the 2 suspects to turn themselves in etc. and we know how well that worked....

But to answer your question, I don't believe (or hope) the RCMP would risk public safety by conducting a misinformation campaign.

The RCMP is under enough public pressure for information flow in this case, can you imagine if it eventually turns out that the hunt for these 2 suspects is possibly part of some other elaborate plan to instead capture the missing fugitive from the US and this manhunt was some wild ruse?

I would think that even in Canada all hell would break loose!

 

[Doverite]

There are also those foil sheets to sleep under and conserve body heat. Maybe they are more prepared than we know.

Yes and we have to wonder if somethings got stuffed in an inside pocket of the camo jacket that was being buttoned up in that coop store video

 

[Herat]

I am taking the position that the stopping of killing is due to the lack of weaponry that would make it easier than killing with their own bare hands. There is something a little weak in their faces , to me, that tells me that point hasn't been reached yet, but it isn't improbable that it will be reached at some point. I certainly don't think they stopped killing out of a sense of remorse or disgust with themselves. Robbery , I think ,was a by product of the murders, and why not? there is the stuff, the owner of it is dead, they need it, they take it. It's a simple , logical process.

Even if that wasn't the conscious process, I reckon it was , subconsciously. Three people , with a bit of a gap inbetween, one a woman, … that is people determined to kill, come what may.

Or they have run out of ammo

 

[Estrojane]

Well all that Lanius stuff does revolve around protecting a dam and succeeding in quests. Frankly it gives me a headache just thinking about it. Someone does need to analyize their fascination with this, though. There may be some roadsigns in the game that explains their behaviour.

There are a few more things that the duo have seemingly done so far that are oddly coincidental, taking the game into account. Not sure I want to bring these things up.

 

[puppyraiser]

It was windy yesterday evening and reports out of York Landing was that drones and helicopters weren't going up but who knows, that could have been RCMP bluffing. Just like saying today they were going to pull out of York Landing and regroup in Gillam.

If I was LE, I would go out to Port Alberni and traverse the woods these guys played survivalist in and see if they had make shift shelters, dug holes to hide in, etc. Get a better idea of just how proficient (or not) their skills may be. So far it appears they have a decent handle on how to hide, unless they really are in a cabin or someone's home.