Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #15

[Optics]

I absolutely don't feel the killings of Fowler & Deese were 'robbery' motivated. It's nonsensical. They left Port Alberni with significant cash. I believe that. I hardly think 2 days after leaving PA they would be broke and needing more money. I feel it was a cold and calculated killing, they may have driven past them earlier, then hid their truck/camper in the bush and 'ambushed' Fowler & Deese. I feel they left and made tracks as far as possible toward Dease Lake area and 'camped' but also listened whether by radio or other means for the reports on the 2 victims. Once they knew the RCMP were still trying to identify the victims and had no suspects, it bought them time. Their next Step 2 was to secure another vehicle by the 19th and make their getaway as far as possible into Alberta and beyond. By at least the 18th when they were spotted in the Dease Lake store/gas station they would have known the RCMP aren't searching for a truck/camper connected to Liard murders. They picked their victim, secured the Rav and set the truck on fire. by then they were close to Hazelton and on to what is called the "hwy of tears" and onward east to Prince George and on into Alberta either via Dawson Creek or Jasper (I feel Dawson Creek).

As I've said before they literally had horseshoes up their a**es, but no doubt planned their thrill kills as close as possible to what concluded. I bet they even were amazed themselves by the time they hit Cold Lake, Meadow Lake & then Split Lake in Manitoba not being recognized, but likely knowing RCMP were searching for 2 missing boys - they had succeeded. Fact is timewise the change to Murder Suspects was the same day if I recall, that the Rav4 was spotted burning at Sundance. When they escaped from the Rav4, they likely figured, they were finally identified by the sudden onset of RCMP - helicopters, planes in the area. They would not have missed them if they survived a few days after the Rav4 Burn.

 

[LadyL]

Thanks! I was hoping you were from Alberta lol

I did find this brochure, which is for the Provincial parks (which Cold Lake campground is) Regulations | Alberta Parks

But nothing about registering vehicles. Investigation continues...

yeah thats the same one I found then I got distracted by all the comfort camping links

 

[Optics]

DBM double posted

 

[Trooper]

edit

 

[Optics]

If they didn't have maps/GPS and weren't completely familiar with Canadian geography, I wonder if they thought they could drive all the way to the east coast just by driving in an easterly direction. Hence the long joy ride comment. If their travel east wasn't based on some video game that had them aiming for some dams/power stations (Gillam area) or going to that area for a specific reason then it's possible they ended up there because they misjudged how far north they were, the size of Hudson Bay and the need to drive further south in order to go east again... if that makes any sense.
Guess that's something we will never know now.

I feel they did have maps, it ain't hard to pick them up. I also feel the Gilliam area was exactly where they planned to get to.

 

[missy1974]

yeah thats the same one I found
then I got distracted by the comfort camping links

you made me go look at their comfort camping lol

In the process, I found this...

I will arrive after check-in time/the registration booth is closed. What should I do?

• Arrive before 11:00 p.m. if possible. Quiet hours are 11:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m.

• Proceed directly to your assigned campsite. Register when the booth re-opens in the morning.

So.. it's like how I have experienced here in Sask. If you come late, go to your spot, and check-in, in the morning. I think this would have been super easy for these 2 to get into a campground and shower and no be noticed or look suspicious. JMO

FAQs | Alberta Parks

 

[puppyraiser]

I feel they did have maps, it ain't hard to pick them up. I also feel the Gilliam area was exactly where they planned to get to.

I personally think that was their destination once they hit the road and am curious why you think the Gillam area was the destination.

 

[SovereignSnake]

I had another question in regards to Derek Whisenand. I know the RCMP stated they had reason to believe he traveled to Eastern Canada after crossing over from North Dakota into Manitoba but who's to say he didn't head west across Saskatchewan, Alberta and then into Northern British Columbia to have a chance encounter with Fowler and Deese? (Still bearing in mind we all know the RCMP said he's not considered a suspect.) Now I've not been to Canada since before passports were required, but how hard is it to exist in Canada as an American with no passport? My coworker and I got the impression he would want to head to Alsaska and at least get back to a US State to hideout. Albeit thousands of miles from home (Texas.) I think it's safe to say the man did not have a passport.

 

[otto]

Thanks! I was hoping you were from Alberta lol

I did find this brochure, which is for the Provincial parks (which Cold Lake campground is) Regulations | Alberta Parks

But nothing about registering vehicles. Investigation continues...

Since there are a limited number of vehicles per site, I'm assuming that vehicle licences are associated with the campsite reservation.

Here's a link to common questions:

FAQs | Alberta Parks

This has more information, such as:

" The maximum number of motor vehicles, tents, recreational vehicles and trailers permitted on a campsite is three, of which only two may be used as sleeping quarters (except when two tents are used as sleeping quarters, in which case two motor vehicles may be permitted)."​

https://www.albertaparks.ca/media/445808/regulations-brochure-web.pdf

 

[JudgeJudi]

You can't infer anything from it being a "closed casket," though you are of course still free to speculate.

I think we can infer quite a bit from the following:

The injuries inflicted were so “brutal”, Ms Deese’s heartbroken brother, British Deese said, the family was told an open casket would not be allowed at her funeral.

NoCookies | The Australian

 

[Optics]

I personally think that was their destination once they hit the road and am curious why you think the Gillam area was the destination.

1. They weren't stupid men, they knew worst case scenario they would spend the rest of their lives in prison, to them that wasn't an option especially because 2 friends extremely close since childhood would never see each other again. They would have to also be 'accountable' - that wasn't an option in their heads. I feel to them it was the 'end of this level of life' on to the 'next level of life' - symbolic of video games where you progress through the levels.
2. Suicide by police in consideration of everything they did and some of what we know of their lives - if they deemed themselves survivalists of sorts - suicide by cops would be a weakness for these 'warriors'.
3. Suicide of their own hand - saved them from being accountable to anyone including shaming they knew they brought on their families. Suicide was on their terms - in their minds it signified success. Perhaps by leaving some of their items near the river - experiencing the extreme bushes - their hope was their bodies would never be found too. Though......even to the end their weird 'eff you mockings' like what they left at the Rav4, walking through a store they knew had surveillance, asking the clerk in Split Lake if its true they don't sell alcohol, etc. - maybe they wanted to be found at some point - but found dead.

On a bit of side note: I just get this feeling the two of them may have had an intimate relationship which they kept extremely secret from others. There is this unverified yet feeling their relationship was 'intimate' in some capacity. I hope when the report is released there will be some focus on what position their bodies were located in.

 

[Trooper]

I think we can infer quite a bit from the following:

The injuries inflicted were so “brutal”, Ms Deese’s heartbroken brother, British Deese said, the family was told an open casket would not be allowed at her funeral.

NoCookies | The Australian

When a USA mortician tells you to keep the casket closed, that an open one 'would not be allowed '... you know it's quite awful.

 

[Iwondertoo]

Fact is timewise the change to Murder Suspects was the same day if I recall, that the Rav4 was spotted burning at Sundance. When they escaped from the Rav4, they likely figured, they were finally identified by the sudden onset of RCMP - helicopters, planes in the area.

SBM

I've always wondered why KM and BS ended their journey in Gillam of all places. I've wondered if the end game for KM and BS included a real life game of hide and seek in the woods with LE.

The RCMP have said they have reason to believe they were in the bush for a few days before they took their lives, so were they just waiting for the game to begin and then ran out of rations and bug spray because they misjudged how long it would take LE to find them in that vast area of woods? And then they took their own lives to end their misery?

Just my thoughts.

 

[janewall]

I personally think that was their destination once they hit the road and am curious why you think the Gillam area was the destination.

I'm not convinced Gillam specifically was their goal and intended destination, but I believe concepts such as "the end of the road" or "the edge of the map" exert a strong pull on many people's imaginations. It does on mine, and I'm not a murderous teenage boy. So if someone – or a pair of like-thinking someones – is profoundly disaffected in their regular life or has a nihilistic worldview, and possibly is intrigued by survivalist ideology, then taking a trip to the back of beyond, going far off the grid and 'ghosting' everyone they know, finding the place where human settlement ends and making a last 'brave' stand in a place where it feels like maybe no man has gone before – that could be the ultimate escapist fantasy. To infinity and beyond! and all that.

 

[Iwondertoo]

If they didn't have maps/GPS and weren't completely familiar with Canadian geography, I wonder if they thought they could drive all the way to the east coast just by driving in an easterly direction. Hence the long joy ride comment. If their travel east wasn't based on some video game that had them aiming for some dams/power stations (Gillam area) or going to that area for a specific reason then it's possible they ended up there because they misjudged how far north they were, the size of Hudson Bay and the need to drive further south in order to go east again... if that makes any sense.
Guess that's something we will never know now.

That theory has crossed my mind too.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I think we can infer quite a bit from the following:

The injuries inflicted were so “brutal”, Ms Deese’s heartbroken brother, British Deese said, the family was told an open casket would not be allowed at her funeral.

NoCookies | The Australian

Even a single shot to the face could do it, and from what I've gathered, it sounds like that's what happened...JMO.

I'm not convinced Gillam specifically was their goal and intended destination, but I believe concepts such as "the end of the road" or "the edge of the map" exert a strong pull on many people's imaginations. It does on mine, and I'm not a murderous teenage boy. So if someone – or a pair of like-thinking someones – is profoundly disaffected in their regular life or has a nihilistic worldview, and possibly is intrigued by survivalist ideology, then taking a trip to the back of beyond, going far off the grid and 'ghosting' everyone they know, finding the place where human settlement ends and making a last 'brave' stand in a place where it feels like maybe no man has gone before – that could be the ultimate escapist fantasy. To infinity and beyond! and all that.

Well THAT didn't work out as expected....

 

[missy1974]

Since there are a limited number of vehicles per site, I'm assuming that vehicle licences are associated with the campsite reservation.

Here's a link to common questions:

FAQs | Alberta Parks

This has more information, such as:

" The maximum number of motor vehicles, tents, recreational vehicles and trailers permitted on a campsite is three, of which only two may be used as sleeping quarters (except when two tents are used as sleeping quarters, in which case two motor vehicles may be permitted)."​

https://www.albertaparks.ca/media/445808/regulations-brochure-web.pdf

I wouldn't assume that at all. There are regulations in Saskatchewan as well, in regards to number of vehicles and the number of people per campsite. It's a space thing, we can't have a trailer, a boat, and 3 vehicles in a camping spot, there just isn't enough room. And the only time they would even notice is when they are going through the campground. We have never had to give them our license plate or even vehicle description to get a park pass or to camp. I cannot find anything about registering a vehicle at a provincial park in Alberta.

This would have been the easiest way for the two to get cleaned up and go relatively unnoticed. Would definitely be sneakier than stopping at a truck stop where they would be sure to stick out and they would have surveillance as well JMO

 

[Trooper]

I don't know where one could gather that Chynna suffered a single gunshot to the face, or even if it can be as yet gathered who fired that 'single gun shot' to the face. As far as is known the Coroner has not released his report.

She may have been subjected to all kinds of assault, not merely a single shot to the face. Who knows?

Whatever it was, her casket was not allowed ( a strange direction , implying some authority ) to remain open but to be firmly and permanently shut. Being aware of the superhuman skills of American morticians ( and being horrified at the same time by those carefully acquired skills ) it seems to me that it was a whole lot more damage and carnage ravaged on the lovely face of Chynna.

 

[Optics]

SBM

I've always wondered why KM and BS ended their journey in Gillam of all places. I've wondered if the end game for KM and BS included a real life game of hide and seek in the woods with LE.

The RCMP have said they have reason to believe they were in the bush for a few days before they took their lives, so were they just waiting for the game to begin and then ran out of rations and bug spray because they misjudged how long it would take LE to find them in that vast area of woods? And then they took their own lives to end their misery?

Just my thoughts.

Yes I absolutely agree with you .......it was the 'end game' for them

 

[Optics]

This would have been the easiest way for the two to get cleaned up and go relatively unnoticed. Would definitely be sneakier than stopping at a truck stop where they would be sure to stick out and they would have surveillance as well JMO

Most rest stops now along highways have running sink water, also it was warm temperatures a lake, a river, a stream were in abundances all along the way for them to 'take a dip' in and clean up.