Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #11

[otto]

So why are you placing the boat location (map) so far above the "Lower Limestone Rapids?" That was the question.

The boat is 13 km from the car. Evidence is 9 km from the car.
The map location is 13 km from the car. Happy to modify

 

[otto]

The boat location may appear "above" the rapids, but it is downstream from the dam.

 

[MistyWaters]

Duplicate post below

 

[MistyWaters]

It's not the first time they've done this. Why do you think they abandoned and torched the truck and camper?

As the circumstances were different so may their reason be.

I’ve already stated why I think the RAV4 was torched. By the time the truck and camper was torched the pair probably had their eye on the RAV4 to make their getaway in a vehicle that wasn’t quite as noticeable. I think they camped near LC and learned enough information about him to know he wasn’t in daily contact anyone who’d immediately report him missing.

 

[NJSleuth91]

For the record I told my husband about this case and asked what he thought about their bizarre behavior, torching vehicles etc., like was it planned, a suicide mission, a "video game in real life" delusion, etc. He said "It sounds like they were about as dumb as the Making a Murderer guys. Idiots." I was like "But...torching their car right next to a murder scene? Who does that if they're trying to get away with it?" and he was like "There are definitely people out there dumb enough to do that." So maybe we're way overthinking their decisions and they just...weren't smart. Also, we're thinking from the perspective of non-murderers...we would never make the decisions they made but, we also would never murder people in the first place.

My theory must contain many flaws

Yeah, like...if there was a third guy then where was he when they got pulled over in Split Lake and their car was searched? How did he just so happen to choose a duo that were like a walking stereotype of teen killers, with at least one of them having a history of disturbing and violent statements, actions, and interests? Why did they give misleading information to their families about where they were going days before the murders occurred?

 

[MistyWaters]

For the record I told my husband about this case and asked what he thought about their bizarre behavior, torching vehicles etc., like was it planned, a suicide mission, a "video game in real life" delusion, etc. He said "It sounds like they were about as dumb as the Making a Murderer guys. Idiots." I was like "But...torching their car right next to a murder scene? Who does that if they're trying to get away with it?" and he was like "There are definitely people out there dumb enough to do that." So maybe we're way overthinking their decisions and they just...weren't smart. Also, we're thinking from the perspective of non-murderers...we would never make the decisions they made but, we also would never murder people in the first place.



Yeah, like...if there was a third guy then where was he when they got pulled over in Split Lake and their car was searched? How did he just so happen to choose a duo that were like a walking stereotype of teen killers, with at least one of them having a history of disturbing and violent statements, actions, and interests? Why did they give misleading information to their families about where they were going days before the murders occurred?

Exactly, ending up as wanted fugitives in sparsely populated northern Manitoba on a dead end road where’d they’d stick out like a sore thumb because everybody knows everybody and they had no reason whatsoever to be there.....that’s about a dumb as it gets and if it was planned, that’s even dumber IMO.

 

[otto]

Evidence is downstream from burned car, which is downstream from Dam. The Nelson river flows into the Hudson Bay.

 

[sprucetip]

Thinking out loud here. Don't people with hypothermia sometimes strip off their clothes?

They do! Seem to hear more about that in extreme cold but I assume it can happen in warmer temps?

Yes, and we know that there has been rain and thunderstorms and temperatures as low as 7°C. Without protection, including layered clothing, it seems to me that hypothermia is a real issue even without being in the river.

Totally, getting wet from the rain will do it. Not being able to dry out can be a death sentence. Cotton T-shirt’s and camo clothing won’t retain heat when wet.

 

[dameagatha]

I was like "But...torching their car right next to a murder scene?

Yeah, like...if there was a third guy...

Professor Dyck was the sort of person who would stop to help kids their age. He may have picked them up hitchhiking. IIRC, his body was found 2 miles south of the truck. If they pulled a knife on him in the car, he may have had a heart attack. That would qualify as 2nd degree charge.

 

[acutename]

They do! Seem to hear more about that in extreme cold but I assume it can happen in warmer temps?

Totally, getting wet from the rain will do it. Not being able to dry out can be a death sentence. Cotton T-shirt’s and camo clothing won’t retain heat when wet.

hypothermia temp/time chart:

Hypothermia safety

 

[sprucetip]

Let's hope that's what happened because then there's a much better chance of their remains being recovered compared to if they drowned. Also lows in the area at night are in the 45-55 degree range.

That doesn't necessarily mean they didn't try to use it to get away. I guess a big clue is, as people said, whether the items were randomly scattered or seemed like they were organized. But either way if they had to abandon a bunch of their items (due to having to run away from the searching officers or whatever) that indicates things probably didn't go well for them. They could only take limited items in the first place from the RAV4.

Yep, 45-55F is around 7-12C. Not cold by northern standards at all but probably cold for a couple of west coast kids, wet in the bush. Then again, they are likely used to wet weather! Just thinking as I go here... maybe they were more prepared for damp and cold weather than people think.

 

[Arizona 123]

Evidence is downstream from burned car, which is downstream from Dam. The Nelson river flows into the Hudson Bay.

View attachment 197270

It is very interesting to me that the reports are that the additional items were found 9km from the car. I'm not putting too much faith in the distance though (I note that the distance to Gillam keeps changing drastically in media reports) but if true, it puts the linked items above (upstream of) Lower Limestone Rapids. That's not a fit with the boat coming to grief in those rapids.

My best guess is the reported distance is off, and both boat and items were found below the rapids, the boat just further down (about where you have it).

 

[otto]

Exactly, ending up as wanted fugitives in sparsely populated northern Manitoba on a dead end road where’d they’d stick out like a sore thumb because everybody knows everybody and they had no reason whatsoever to be there.....that’s about a dumb as it gets and if it was planned, that’s even dumber IMO.

The burned car was found on July 22. August 6, it's still unknown whether they are alive or dead, lost, on the run, in the rain on a train, in a boat on a moat or what. They have not stood out in 15 days.

 

[sprucetip]

Jackrabbits. Undressing and burrowing.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/io9.gi...th-makes-you-want-to-get-naked-1688151366/amp

Wow! I’ve never heard of the burrowing thing. Weeeeird!

 

[grannygates]

it is deceiving that the river appears to flow “up”.

my own opinion for the torching of the cars is firstly to get rid of evidence (which really threw a big ol bullseye on their location) OR their attempt at a trademark...like the wet bandits.

 

[scrappinkat]

Not true. I'm talking about legal statutes: Access to Information and Privacy | Royal Canadian Mounted Police

• Obtaining consent: You must obtain the written consent (permission) of any individual whose personal information you are requesting. In the case of a deceased person, you must provide a death certificate.
• Accessing information: Making a request to access information under either act does not guarantee that you will receive all the information or records you have requested. The RCMP takes into account privacy and security considerations, among other elements, when reviewing requests. This may prevent us from releasing certain information.

Police cannot reveal personal details about someone just to satisfy public curiosity.

They did for Ben Kilmer. Against his wife’s wishes.

 

[MassGuy]

it is deceiving that the river appears to flow “up”.

my own opinion for the torching of the cars is firstly to get rid of evidence (which really threw a big ol bullseye on their location) OR their attempt at a trademark...like the wet bandits.

Ha! Superb movie reference.

I do think it was to destroy evidence, but it’s the dumbest move imaginable either way.

 

[grannygates]

They did for Ben Kilmer. Against his wife’s wishes.

that information was released through the coroner in their report which is always open to the public, not through RCMP.

 

[dameagatha]

They do! ... Cotton T-shirt’s and camo clothing won’t retain heat when wet.

Earlier post with interesting / disturbing article about hypothermia.

Jackrabbits. Undressing and burrowing.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/io9.gi...th-makes-you-want-to-get-naked-1688151366/amp

 

[Peace777]

That earlier statement from RCMP had a strong implication that they believe these two are dead.

If those items were placed there, then they certainly wouldn’t feel that way.

I guess they must have washed up.

Couldn't they have stripped off their clothes in the water or thrown some in? RCMP can't give up totally just based on something being washed ashore. IF these 2 drowned (I'm not buying it) then when or where might their bodies wash ashore I wonder?I say bring in some Australian police or American Police heck even the FBI as this is an International case isn't it? Just wondering out loud...