Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #15

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #981
*listen I know the campground comments are late to the party but I already had them typed out when all heck seemed to break loose on this thread so I am posting them - with the knowledge that maybe none of it applies cause we do not know where or even if the two murderers cleaned themselves up*



they get lake access upon registration at the gate - if they want unrestricted use, they can find access points down the street from the campground



day users still have to register their vehicle





perhaps but the night security who patrol would be alerted and definitely paying attention



if you look at the pictures, it is an obviously well-worn pathway or trail - to or from where I have no idea



phones have good flashlights on them; also someone previously said it doesnèt get pitch black there - more like twilight (we know Bryer had a phone at some point)

Are you from Alberta? Just wondering if you know for sure about the registering of vehicles? Anyone know this for sure? lol I was looking earlier today when it was being talked about and couldn't find anything. We have camped in Alberta before, but don't recall "registering" our vehicle, but we also made reservations. I don't think we camped in a provincial park either.
Saskatchewan is different. We can buy a provincial park pass for the vehicle, as long as you have that pass in the window, you are waved by, no need to stop at the gate. And like someone else has mentioned... although there is a gate there, when it's closed going in, it doesn't mean you can't get into the campground, we have arrived late at night before and in the morning, we go and check in.
Most campgrounds that I have been to... I would not question anyone going in and out of the washrooms/showers. There are so many campsites in some of these campgrounds, the thought of them being monitored is not even realistic to me. I have driven to the showers too lol Sometimes the site is far from them... and at night, it can be cool to walk back after a shower.

I also think they would less likely to be noticed in a campground then at a truck stop...

Just my 5 cents ;-)
 
  • #982
I think whether they thought it was scary sleeping out there depends on one’s perspective. L&C were an experienced, adventurous couple. That spot they were stopped at is actually beautiful. It’s probably my absolute favourite spot on the Alaska highway. The meandering river on one side, forest all around, the view is spectacular. I bet they thought the same and were excited as they drove up the Hwy.

Knowing what little I’ve heard about them and hearing from the other couple who talked to them, they sounded chill and relaxed that day. I bet they went to sleep (if they did) feeling pretty comfortable, excited for the rest of their travels and at peace. People traveling up the highway have a great appreciation for it, there’s a reason they’ve chosen to drive up and explore the north.

I’ve mentioned before that TONS of people pull over in random spots along the Hwy, sleeping in vehicles is completely normal. I live 8km from a rest stop on the Alaska Hwy, every night in the summer there are vehicles there.

Also, at that time of year it wasn’t getting very dark at night, just a few hours of twilight. It wasn’t pitch black. I bet they also thought that was cool, most people do when they first experience it. You can’t get over it being light at 11pm!

So... maybe it’s just me hoping those two felt some moments of awe, excitement and happiness in their last hours but I also think it’s quite possible.

Yeah, I doubt they had any qualms at all about sleeping in their van that night.

For safety, I’m sure they locked the doors, as that might explain that broken window.

They were comfortable enough to turn away assistance, confident that they could start that van when the time was right.

They just never imagined that two madmen would come upon them as they slept (the odds of which are astronomical).
 
  • #983
Possible: it was a robbery, Lucas came out and startled them in the darkness and one of them panicked and shot Lucas, which explains the random location of the wound. Then Chynna heard the commotion and came running out with one shoe on, and one of them shot her to eliminate the witness. They may have taken the IDs to hinder the investigation. The robbery would be for thrill rather than money, unless they may have planned to never come back to Port Alberni.
It didn’t get ‘dark’ at that time of year. The darkest it got was a few hours of twilight but that’s about it. Like dusk for a few hours, you can still see perfectly fine.

But it doesn’t even need to be dark for your scenario. Could ave happened like that.
 
  • #984
After pouring through dozens of articles and doing a weeks worth of research (seriously I learned so much about Northern Canada in last 7 days and I live in Wisconsin.) I still cannot accept that those two boys killed Deese and Fowler and left the van intact. I'm still very suspicious about that composite sketch of the man seen arguing with the couple driving (as I recall) a blue late model Jeep Cherokee with a black strip on the hood and the striking physical likeness to Derek Whisenand from Texas. Especially that photo released by Pembina PD on July 4th. (I will attach a link which includes a security camera photo of him dated 6-24-19, note his hat and he also dyed his beard hair.) (Apologies if that has already been shared.)

Eastland County murder suspect on the run in Canada

My coworker and I suspect Whisenand argued with the couple after offering help, probably also offered to give Chynna a ride somewhere to call someone and it sparked a dispute. He looks exactly like the kind of guy who would get pushy and aggressive with an attractive girl. We then think Whisenand left and then returned to the couple later that night in the darkness, approached the van, either shot out the back window or the noise of his vehicle rolling up behind the van alerted Lucas Fowler who stepped out to see who it was, they began arguing again, Whisenand shoots the back window and then shoots Fowler. Chynna, meanwhile is putting her shoes on to come assist Lucas, hears the gun shots/takes cover from the broken back window, attempts to make a run for it with one shoe on and is ambushed the moment she flees out the side of the van. Based on what I read about their injuries it appears Lucas may have crawled to her body on the side of the van where they were found early the next morning. I'm basing this off that image that appeared on Twitter where the back window is blasted out and the bodies of Fowler and Deese (blurred out) are lying in the grass on the side of the van in the very early morning hours of July 15th taken by the construction worker who found them. It's such a beautifully haunting photo, I'm getting chills just writing about it.

Meanwhile we think Kam and Bryer were parked, camping over by Dease Lake. Something happened the night of July 18th where they encountered Leonard Dyck, there must have been some kind of prior exchange or alternatively after having spent days in the area, the boys were growing bored and thought it might be fun to rob someone. I believe things unintentionally went ary and they ended up killing Leonard Dyck in the process. Honestly, looking at Kam and Bryer, they don't look capable enough to rob/kill anyone except perhaps an elderly person. Whom was very likely pulled over resting when they sprung on him. I think with the coincidental murder of Fowler and Dease several hundred miles away, the RCMP labeled them as suspects and the media has effectively and possibly successfully pinned the murders of Lucas Fowler and Chynna Dease on Kam and Bryer. I also have to wonder if they heard about the couple being murdered on the radio or a television at a gas station and thought they could rob someone for fun in the area and get away with it. One problem though, they didn't anticipate actually killing their target.
Interesting theory, seems a bit too coincidental though for two almost simultaneous murder scenes to have happened. Murders like this in the area are RARE. For 2 to happen within days that aren’t related? Unlikely.

Related side note: in central Yukon, a week or so after the murders, people were freaking out convinced they saw Derek W (and dog) hitchhiking up the Robert Campbell Hwy near Ross River. Sent a bit of a panic around the area. Yukon RCMP finally made a statement that they weren’t aware of any reports of him being in the area. Makes you wonder though...
 
  • #985
The Australian press published them online and the RCMP had to ask them to take them down. It's like they have a huge affection for TMI down there. Imagine opening the morning paper at breakfast and seeing that.

I think it's sensationalism to say that there was a sexual assault, personally.

Jumping off your post on the subject... I don't think one way or another really about a sexual assault but I will say even if she was clothed doesn't mean there wasn't perhaps an attempt at sexual assault or an escalation heading in that direction possibly.

If C&L befriended or spoke to suspects, no one will know how that encounter and interaction went (unless LE find evidence of this happening).

For some reason, I don't feel like this was a surprise attack on strangers. I can't shake the notion that there was an interaction possibly friendly that went weird and awry.

If a random attack on strangers, then I think they picked C&L being young, vivacious and attractive to get the attention and noteriety.
 
  • #986
He could have been in the van or sleeping, Chynna outside and the suspects saw her and pulled over. He heard a commotion and tried to intervene from there or he was an obstacle like you mention. Maybe the two didn't sexually assault Chynna, but perhaps they tried?

I don't think BS and KM had a real reason to simply rob CD and LF. Robbery occurred, yes, but was it the intent and the motive or was it simply opportunistic? By all accounts, Kam's family had money and now we're hearing that Bryer left PA with a "significant amount of money." If the two suspects needed cash, why wouldn't Kam asked his parents to help him out? It seems like they were supportive and I'm sure transferring some cash into his account would have been no issue. Most parents wouldn't just leave their child stranded in Northern BC with no money and Kam's family seemed supportive. Sure, he may have ended up with a lecture for being irresponsible, but if

I understand their motivation for robbing LD and that part of their spree made "sense" (as awful as that sounds) but I can't understand why they targeted CD and LF.

I'm behind and just read your post now after posting my thoughts of similar belief. I agree that I don't think it was robbery at all.

Either they targeted a young, attractive couple to kill to get attention or they befriended them or maybe exchange some conversation in an innocent encounter and things went bad (especially if BS has a history of creeping people out). How do you get rid of 2 creepy kids in the middle of the wilderness if they're making your girlfriend uncomfortable? Kinda hard unless you get fed up and stern and say F-off, which I think could trigger the inferior ones to show "their power". JMO
 
Last edited:
  • #987
À-propos of nothing...

In my view, their ultimate motive was suicide. They wanted to die.

But before they die, they wanted to play…. they made the game more real by making themselves fugitives. That’s why they killed perfect strangers who were…. at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Then it was GAME ON!

Off they went, at war with the environment, trying to escape the army, no less.
For days, and days, and days and weeks!
Did they know they had the world’s attention too?

They ended it as they had planned.
I see them facing each other… 1 - 2 - 3

For all of that, I believe they were partners in crime. I can’t see one leading the other. They were friends for so long.

They will become some sort of cult figures in some fringe spot
They will remain heartless ruthless killers, owing their infamy to a senseless act.
100% agree with this. I never felt there was a leader either. Just two very sick individuals with the same end goal in mind. Totally partners in crime and then their own deaths.
 
  • #988
Personally I am very grateful for the ability to report posts that seem to violate the TOS as I understand them. I am grateful for the moderation on this site and hope to see the results of it soon.

Edited to add short version of TOS that I just read earlier today. I feel that this is typically what I experience on the site and helps make this site different from other discussion forums. I wish we collectively could achieve these goals in this thread now (emphasis added to #2 and #4).

From Home page of websleuths

Terms of Service - Short, Plain Language Version


We have a detailed, formal Terms of Service (TOS) posted separately, and that TOS is what you will be held to as a member here. It's long and detailed because it has to be in the world we live in, and you are expected to read it, understand it and abide by it. However, we can sum it up as follows:

1) Be a decent human being;
2) Treat your fellow posters as the decent human beings they are;
3) Keep in mind that whatever you post will likely live on forever, so think before you press "Submit Reply".
4) It's a big world. People will disagree with you. You will disagree with them. This can be done with respect, and that's what we expect.
 
Last edited:
  • #989
The third murder seems to be a direct result of the suspects needing a car. It looks like they stole ID and eliminated witnesses to buy time.

What we don't know is what they wanted from the tourists, where they also stole ID and eliminated witnesses. That's the piece that doesn't make sense, unless the suspects assumed that the van was abandoned and were in the process of breaking in when they were caught - so they decided to eliminate the witnesses.

They had a gun(s) for the road trip period (assuming). I don't believe the guns were for back up "just in case" of a botched robbery.

If they wanted to rob, they would've robbed people in a higher end vehicle or expensive motorhome with TVs in them or people that looked like they had something to rob, not hippie/bohemian millenials in a crappy van. Sure, a robbery of opportunity but I just don't see it as that. JMO

There would be no need to snuff out witnesses since K&B weren't on anyone's radar. If the couple were robbed and described them to LE, there wouldn't be an APB for that I don't think as they'd just get put in the files of robberies and B&Es of tourists. K&B's family thought they were elsewhere so no real trace back to them.
 
Last edited:
  • #990
100% agree with this. I never felt there was a leader either. Just two very sick individuals with the same end goal in mind. Totally partners in crime and then their own deaths.

Yes, I also feel that they had a suicide pact. That seems the only possible answer as to why they would drive thousands of miles across country, to the very end of the road nearly at Hudson Bay, a vast body of water.
 
Last edited:
  • #991
Yeah I don't think Kam had 'social anxiety' what I do think is he had a psychopathic mind which was masked under 'friendly, polite' etc. The friends who commented on that of which there aren't many aren't psychologists. Being the older of he and Bryer, I am convinced he was the more dangerous one and Bryer did his dirty doings for him because Bryer looked up to him and wanted someone to like him. I feel Kam used him and Bryer was a good candidate even to post threats, 'bully' and buy nazi related stuff.....Kam was the mastermind in my view and Bryer acted on his beckoning calls. Bryer didn't force or kidnap Kam to take the truck, burn the truck, steal the Rav4 , drive the Rav4 on a 'joy ride', burn the Rav4.....and on and on. The ONE thing I am deathly curious about is why Kam never once took his hand out of his pants pocket when shown in the store video.

As viewer of the video of them in store I have to say to me - Kam's eyes looks smug, sly and cold and Bryer more in a daze and deer in headlights.

Totally my personal observation! I said in a thread earlier I might possibly look creepy on a store's video surveillance buying Cheerios at the grocery store... context lol
 
  • #992
Are you from Alberta? Just wondering if you know for sure about the registering of vehicles? Anyone know this for sure? lol I was looking earlier today when it was being talked about and couldn't find anything. We have camped in Alberta before, but don't recall "registering" our vehicle, but we also made reservations. I don't think we camped in a provincial park either.
Saskatchewan is different. We can buy a provincial park pass for the vehicle, as long as you have that pass in the window, you are waved by, no need to stop at the gate. And like someone else has mentioned... although there is a gate there, when it's closed going in, it doesn't mean you can't get into the campground, we have arrived late at night before and in the morning, we go and check in.
Most campgrounds that I have been to... I would not question anyone going in and out of the washrooms/showers. There are so many campsites in some of these campgrounds, the thought of them being monitored is not even realistic to me. I have driven to the showers too lol Sometimes the site is far from them... and at night, it can be cool to walk back after a shower.

I also think they would less likely to be noticed in a campground then at a truck stop...

Just my 5 cents ;-)

No Ontario so I could be way off base. I did look but could not find the pertinent info on campsites there.
 
Last edited:
  • #993
Totally my personal observation! I said in a thread earlier I might possibly look creepy on a store's video surveillance buying Cheerios at the grocery store... context lol

Yes! I can only imagine how I come across in surveillance video, I’m not a shopper so I’m sure it’s not an overly welcoming look o_O
 
  • #994
The third murder seems to be a direct result of the suspects needing a car. It looks like they stole ID and eliminated witnesses to buy time.

What we don't know is what they wanted from the tourists, where they also stole ID and eliminated witnesses. That's the piece that doesn't make sense, unless the suspects assumed that the van was abandoned and were in the process of breaking in when they were caught - so they decided to eliminate the witnesses.

It's the oldest tragedy in the world

Youths decide to rob someone. Maybe some opportunistic sexual assault. Gets carried away. Someone gets murdered.

The only unusual part was the large scale manhunt
 
  • #995
Interesting theory, seems a bit too coincidental though for two almost simultaneous murder scenes to have happened. Murders like this in the area are RARE. For 2 to happen within days that aren’t related? Unlikely.

Related side note: in central Yukon, a week or so after the murders, people were freaking out convinced they saw Derek W (and dog) hitchhiking up the Robert Campbell Hwy near Ross River. Sent a bit of a panic around the area. Yukon RCMP finally made a statement that they weren’t aware of any reports of him being in the area. Makes you wonder though...

I totally agree, it is incredibly coincidental that two separate muders could occur just four days and roughly 300 miles apart but hey, as they say, stranger things right? We did see the report from the RCMP that Derek Whisenand was not considered a suspect but still I can't help but wonder. My coworker and I did agree that this mysterious bearded, hat man could also be someone completely unknown to anyone currently but definitely not to be ruled out as a possible suspect in the case of Fowler and Deese.

Another thing about the boys. We looked over the photos of their burned out Dodge pickup and noticed in the zoomed out photos there's a "Dutch Oven" constructed and sitting on the blue tarp with all the evidence the RCMP had collected. This lead us to believe that Kam and Bryer were indeed camping in that spot where they found the Dodge. The question is; for how long and when did they actually arrive in the area. We suspect it took them until Sunday/Monday (the night Fowler and Deese were murdered) leisurely driving up from Port Alberni if they set out on Friday July 12th to arrive just outside Dease Lake and camped/tooled round the area until the night of July 18th. The night they encountered Leonard Dyck. I just get this feeling that whatever happened that night of the 18th with Leonard Dyck absolutely scared those boys to death, hence burning their truck AND their effective shelter and fleeing across half of Northern Canada in four days. I think one death was all those those two could handle.
 
  • #996
  • #997
If they didn't have maps/GPS and weren't completely familiar with Canadian geography, I wonder if they thought they could drive all the way to the east coast just by driving in an easterly direction. Hence the long joy ride comment. If their travel east wasn't based on some video game that had them aiming for some dams/power stations (Gillam area) or going to that area for a specific reason then it's possible they ended up there because they misjudged how far north they were, the size of Hudson Bay and the need to drive further south in order to go east again... if that makes any sense.
Guess that's something we will never know now.
 
Last edited:
  • #998
Personally I am very grateful for the ability to report posts that seem to violate the TOS as I understand them. I am grateful for the moderation on this site and hope to see the results of it soon.

Edited to add short version of TOS that I just read earlier today. I feel that this is typically what I experience on the site and helps make this site different from other discussion forums. I wish we collectively could achieve these goals in this thread now (emphasis added to #2 and #4).

From Home page of websleuths

Terms of Service - Short, Plain Language Version


We have a detailed, formal Terms of Service (TOS) posted separately, and that TOS is what you will be held to as a member here. It's long and detailed because it has to be in the world we live in, and you are expected to read it, understand it and abide by it. However, we can sum it up as follows:

1) Be a decent human being;
2) Treat your fellow posters as the decent human beings they are;
3) Keep in mind that whatever you post will likely live on forever, so think before you press "Submit Reply".
4) It's a big world. People will disagree with you. You will disagree with them. This can be done with respect, and that's what we expect.
Ty for taking the time to post this.
 
  • #999
Thanks! I was hoping you were from Alberta lol

I did find this brochure, which is for the Provincial parks (which Cold Lake campground is) Regulations | Alberta Parks

But nothing about registering vehicles. Investigation continues... ;)

yeah thats the same one I found
then I got distracted by the comfort camping links :D
 
Last edited:
  • #1,000
double post
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
116
Guests online
1,344
Total visitors
1,460

Forum statistics

Threads
632,315
Messages
18,624,591
Members
243,082
Latest member
Delmajesty
Back
Top