GUILTY Canada - Melissa Richmond, 28, stabbed to death, Winchester, Ont, 24 July 2013

[LurkingSpectator]

IMOO, the explanation that currently makes sense given the weight of evidence that we have available to us (which is scant to say the least) is that Howard pushed her down some stairs in a moment of PTSD induced rage (trauma), panicked and staged the dump site to look like a murder (stab wounds being part of that).

That sounds like a possible scenario, but question, how did he then get her car to the parking lot 40 mins away, and get home again if no one else was involved?

IF HR did this, someone suggested there was a fight at a gas station, she left, he followed, found her in the parking lot and then she was killed. That sounds more likely, but even then, I wonder how much rage and out of control he had to be to stab her, if that was the CoD.

 

[LurkingSpectator]

Police do continue to collect evidence after an arrest and before a trial, but there should not be an arrest without evidence of guilt.

Hey Otto, I think we are talking 'apples' to 'apples' here, but I'm zoomed into the actual fruit, and you are looking at the whole tree. I have heard the OPP and other LE agencies accused of 'jumping the gun' and making false arrests on several occasions. I do not believe they do that. I know a few LE officers, and I find it very hard to believe that they get it in 'their gut' that someone is guilty and go and find stuff to be able to arrest them. That is not what I'm talking about.

However, if they have enough circumstantial evidence to indicate Opportunity, Means and Motive, they can get an arrest warrant. This doesn't mean that they don't have convincing evidence of guilt, it just means that it isn't physical evidence directly proving guilt. In this case, what I've meant from the beginning is that I sure hope this arrest was made on the basis of some hard, physical evidence and not just a substantial amount of circumstantial evidence. The reason why I hope this is because it is far easier for the people who knew both of them, and for the families, to work through the grief, anger, guilt, etc when there is no doubt. If it is mainly circumstantial evidence, there will always be doubt, which just adds to it.

Is it enough to arrest someone, in Ontario, on suspicion of murder based on the circumstantial evidence just we know about here on this forum? The answer to that is 'yes'. It does not mean LE were overzealous, or telescopic in their investigation, it just means that they believe they have the right man, and that physical evidence obtained later will prove them right.

 

[Wondergirl]

No problem on my end I know it looks to you like I just found this site and registered so I can post, but I've actually been reading Websleuths off and on for a while, it is just that this is the first forum I have felt I could actually contribute anything too. I've been reading the forum since the beginning, and I just figured some insight into the personality of the suspect, the disability he is dealing with, and answers to some questions people had to which I have the answers could be helpful. I, personally, have no problem with speculation. You speculate it was deliberate murder for insurance money based on news of financial issues the couple was having, and some response that anyone who didn't know HR would think strange. Personally, I don't think it was a deliberate murder, based on having knowledge of the Society, his nature, and the disability he is dealing with. I never said I believe 100% that he is innocent. Even I, who have always thought HR is a great guy, am finding that hard to believe, but I truly believe a horrible thing happened, and his disability played a part, but only time will tell. Until then, speculate away.

Many people have disabilities, but they don't murder their other half.

I am 100% positive that we will see him defend himself, with his PTSD.

I have a question - how many humans has HR killed?

 

[LurkingSpectator]

Many people have disabilities, but they don't murder their other half.

I am 100% positive that we will see him defend himself, with his PTSD.

I have a question - how many humans has HR killed?

Many people have PTSD who do not harm others as well, and many people who have PTSD do harm others in one way or another. I don't think anyone said that the disability is an excuse or gives HR or any other person a right to murder. It may, however, explain why an individual who was known by many as a 'good' man, introspective and romantic, may then harm another.

If your last question was meant to refer to how many enemy combatants may have died that HR was facing in combat, I don't think even the military could answer that one, and I don't see that as being an indication that an individual is then capable of non-combat murder either.

 

[Wondergirl]

I can't say I disagree with that statement at all. I think the big question is whether or not the CoD is stabbing, and if not, were the stab wounds made post mortem? As to the planning to make it look random, I am not at all surprised at the idea that a military member could do some pretty detailed and careful cover up moves while still in a panic. These are guys trained to respond in crisis after all.

So, do you think HR was "having a break" when he murdered Melissa, but, was lucid with his military training to try and cover it all up afterward?

How about his conscience? At what point do you distinguish the break from the reality? The deceipt, it ran pretty deep, wouldn't you say? Still part of the "break" or no?

 

[LurkingSpectator]

So, do you think HR was "having a break" when he murdered Melissa, but, was lucid with his military training to try and cover it all up afterward?

How about his conscience? At what point do you distinguish the break from the reality? The deceipt, it ran pretty deep, wouldn't you say? Still part of the "break" or no?

First of all, all PTSD episodes are not entire 'breaks' from reality. I used to think that is what PTSD meant. You know, like in the movies or TV shows? A person hears a car backfire, and suddenly they are back in the rice paddies in 'Nam and think they are being shot at? I was shocked to find out that is only a small part of PTSD, and is actually a rare phenomenon. The 'break' has more to do with the inability to process, control or workthrough emotion. Small, seeming inconsequential things can set off major meltdowns and strong outbursts of temper, that can result in things being thrown, smashed, etc. Or they can result in major meltdowns resulting in hysterical tears, shaking, increased pulse and heart rate, panic attacks, etc.

From my experience, and I can only go off of what I've seen dealing with my SO, some of his friends who also suffer from the disability, and the counselors and medical professionals who have tried to help me understand so I can be a good caregiver, if it was a break, it didn't last long. Sometimes the anger can fuel someone for hours, but hardly more than six or eight. After that, if the person remembers any details of what happened during the break, there is usually panic, remorse, heightened fear response, denial and huge reluctance or inability to deal with the consequences. This all fits PTSD. A terror of how others are going to desert them, an irrational fear of what others will think or say, etc. Almost a child-like attempt to deny the actions or the words. Crying, absurd denials even in the face of written or visual proof, etc.

Yes, it was a huge deception if he killed her, then allowed his close friends to search for days, knowing all along where she was, and he was not being affected by his PTSD. I did not see HR during the days of the search, or speak with him, or even receive details on his actions or reactions, only general responses to enquiries as to how he was holding up. So I can not tell you if he was showing signs of a PTSD episode, if he had a 'break' when it happened, or if it affected his actions afterwards. All I can say is it is possible, more than possible.

None of us can fully know a person, not completely, and there have been some pretty twisted individuals who have fooled a lot of smart people through out recent history, acting normal and seemingly great guys who have carried out some fairly heinous acts unbeknownst to others. Is it possible HR is one of these guys? It is possible. Anything is possible. However, the fact he does definitely have PTSD makes it just as likely that HR is not one of these guys, but instead, someone who did something horrible, and responded badly, based upon his PTSD, and if that is the case, why not use it in his defense?

 

[otto]

That sounds like a possible scenario, but question, how did he then get her car to the parking lot 40 mins away, and get home again if no one else was involved?

IF HR did this, someone suggested there was a fight at a gas station, she left, he followed, found her in the parking lot and then she was killed. That sounds more likely, but even then, I wonder how much rage and out of control he had to be to stab her, if that was the CoD.

He had from getting gas to the shopping centre. That's plenty of time to build up a serious rage. One oft he early articles stated that police believed that she was killed at that location. After the murder, he drove home.

 

[otto]

Hey Otto, I think we are talking 'apples' to 'apples' here, but I'm zoomed into the actual fruit, and you are looking at the whole tree. I have heard the OPP and other LE agencies accused of 'jumping the gun' and making false arrests on several occasions. I do not believe they do that. I know a few LE officers, and I find it very hard to believe that they get it in 'their gut' that someone is guilty and go and find stuff to be able to arrest them. That is not what I'm talking about.

However, if they have enough circumstantial evidence to indicate Opportunity, Means and Motive, they can get an arrest warrant. This doesn't mean that they don't have convincing evidence of guilt, it just means that it isn't physical evidence directly proving guilt. In this case, what I've meant from the beginning is that I sure hope this arrest was made on the basis of some hard, physical evidence and not just a substantial amount of circumstantial evidence. The reason why I hope this is because it is far easier for the people who knew both of them, and for the families, to work through the grief, anger, guilt, etc when there is no doubt. If it is mainly circumstantial evidence, there will always be doubt, which just adds to it.

Is it enough to arrest someone, in Ontario, on suspicion of murder based on the circumstantial evidence just we know about here on this forum? The answer to that is 'yes'. It does not mean LE were overzealous, or telescopic in their investigation, it just means that they believe they have the right man, and that physical evidence obtained later will prove them right.

In the tree I'm looking at, the police are good apples and, generally speaking, they are unable to convince a judge to issue an arrest warrant on the basis of someone not having a verified alibi at the time of the crime, who was at the scene and who does benefit from the crime. That would include the woman that hides under the table during the murder of her husband in the next room, but that is not sufficient for an arrest warrant.

Something must have imlicated the husband. There's a reason that police were searching in Chesterville. They knew that the couple got gas together that night. There is obviously more to the story that has not been released. Evidence was obtained after Russell Williams was arrested too.

Victoria Stafford's murder was solved using circumstantail evidence, like the video of the woman in the white puffy coat.

 

[otto]

Many people have PTSD who do not harm others as well, and many people who have PTSD do harm others in one way or another. I don't think anyone said that the disability is an excuse or gives HR or any other person a right to murder. It may, however, explain why an individual who was known by many as a 'good' man, introspective and romantic, may then harm another.

If your last question was meant to refer to how many enemy combatants may have died that HR was facing in combat, I don't think even the military could answer that one, and I don't see that as being an indication that an individual is then capable of non-combat murder either.

Introverted? Is that how people that knew him described him? Do we know what role did he played in the medieval game?

 

[otto]

Many people have disabilities, but they don't murder their other half.

I am 100% positive that we will see him defend himself, with his PTSD.

I have a question - how many humans has HR killed?

That's an interesting question. The murder of his wife was very deceitful. He not only well-played the grieving husband, but he carefully staged the scene to appear like a random rape/murder. He had no feeling for his wife to leave her half clothed and brutally stabbed in a drainage ditch.

I too have wondered what role his military training played in how this played out. I would like to know what event triggered the PTSD. There's always a triggering event. He had 6 tours in 8 years ... something like that. One tour was in Bosnia. That was a vicious war, a genocide. Maybe it isn't his first murder that was not directly related to active combat.

 

[Wondergirl]

Police do continue to collect evidence after an arrest and before a trial, but there should not be an arrest without evidence of guilt.

LE told us yesterday in the RAW video I linked upthread, that "information obtained relating to the murder of Melissa Howard led to the issuance of further search warrants".

LE has evidence regarding her murder.

Not the least of which is trauma to her body, which was in addition to the multiple stab wounds.

I somehow doubt the trauma that Melissa endured was post-mortem

Jmo

 

[otto]

LE told us yesterday in the RAW video I linked upthread, that "information obtained relating to the murder of Melissa Howard led to the issuance of further search warrants".

LE has evidence regarding her murder.

Not the least of which is trauma to her body, which was in addition to the multiple stab wounds.

I somehow doubt the trauma that Melissa endured was post-mortem

Jmo

I'm pretty sure that half of her clothes were removed, she was beaten, stabbed and then left in a drainage ditch to die. I don't believe for a moment that any of her injuries occurred after she had died. Either he was jealous, or he blamed her for his financial situation. Perhaps she was thinking about leaving him.

 

[LurkingSpectator]

I'm pretty sure that half of her clothes were removed, she was beaten, stabbed and then left in a drainage ditch to die. I don't believe for a moment that any of her injuries occurred after she had died. Either he was jealous, or he blamed her for his financial situation. Perhaps she was thinking about leaving him.

And also perhaps you are over thinking it. That's the thing with PTSD, it doesn't have to be a 'valid' reason for the outburst, or the anger. Usually, it isn't. It's a small everyday thing that the PTSD brain twists and turns into something completely different and more significant. That is really one of my points during this whole discussion, when someone has PTSD, who they are, as in what type of personality they have or had prior to getting the PTSD, has nothing to do with the PTSD reactions. PTSD can change the quietest, most reserved or the happiest most outgoing person into a paranoid, aggressive, fearful, angry person in moments of stress or perceived stress.

In this case, it could have been something as simple as he had a headache, and she yelled from her car to his about paying for the gas. Nine times out of ten, that is exactly what it sounds like, someone getting your attention and reminding you to pay for the gas. That ten time, in a PTSD mind, that is her yelling at him and saying he is a failure, incompetent and not able to take care of himself, inciting fear, aggression and anger.

PTSD is a trigger disability, that changes a person's entire personality during times of stress. The trigger often has nothing to do with the reality of a situation, but more often the perception of the person with PTSD. And yes, depending on how severe the PTSD is, they paranoid, emotional reactions can last for days. I count the days my SO is 'normal' or his old self on one hand in a month, and the days he is 'PTSD'ing' are numerous. This is what makes PTSD such a tragic disability.

It doesn't make it an excuse. Nor mean that a person should not pay for their actions while under the influence of PTSD. It just makes it more understandable when things happen. I think, if it was Howard, he lost it, attacked her, either with the knife or with his hands, and somewhere in his mind realized what he had done, panicked, tried to cover it up to make it look like a random murder, then went into total denial. What I don't know, and have no idea of knowing is at what point he began to admit to himself he did this, and began to go into the 'PTSD damage control mode'. I think it is when they found the car, but I'm not sure. At any point, the PTSD would have been telling him 'hide it, don't let anyone know you are a monster, they will hang you, they will beat you, they will lynch you' from whenever he stopped denying it to himself. It doesn't make it acceptable, it just makes it pitiful if from my point of view.

I sure hope she wasn't left in that ditch to die, I hope it was over quick for her, and the majority of wounds were not felt due to unconsciousness, hopefully, if they weren't post mortem.

 

[LurkingSpectator]

Introverted? Is that how people that knew him described him? Do we know what role did he played in the medieval game?

I should explain that the SCA is not a 'role' playing game as such. There are no 'roles' that people play other than the type of person they wish to portray. Such as an 14th century Frenchman, or an 10th century Viking, etc. There are a few positions in the SCA that would be considered 'roles' but they are more like officer positions on the administration side of things.

Each person in the SCA is able to participate to the extent they wish, and they can be involved in any number of activities. I believe Howard did archery and ratan weapons fighting, as well as some A&S.

Also, I said introspective, which is not the same thing as introverted. Howard liked poetry, and he often took things around him and turned them into poetic musings.

 

[RandomName479]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression PTSD was an anxiety disorder, not a "disability" per se.

 

[Patience]

I have been diagnosed with PTSD at Sunnybrook Women's Health Science Centre in Toronto and am deemed disabled by the Doctors and the Canadian government. Yes it is an anxiety disorder.

 

[LurkingSpectator]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression PTSD was an anxiety disorder, not a "disability" per se.

Well, that depends upon which direction you are looking at it from. If you are looking at it as a classification, such as a classified in DSM IV, where it is an anxiety disorder, or the more recent DSM V, which actually changes the criteria for diagnosing PTSD and creates a new subclassification of Trauma and Stress related disorders, as the DSM lists different ailments into categories such as 'Syndromes', Disorders, Diseases, etc., then yes, it is a disorder, listed under anxiety.

If you are coming at it from the direction of a coverage for benefits, it is a disability, as in the definition of a 'disability' is actually a consequence of an impairment, and that impairment can be physical, psychological, cognitive, sensory, etc. it is a disability.

 

[otto]

And also perhaps you are over thinking it. That's the thing with PTSD, it doesn't have to be a 'valid' reason for the outburst, or the anger. Usually, it isn't. It's a small everyday thing that the PTSD brain twists and turns into something completely different and more significant. That is really one of my points during this whole discussion, when someone has PTSD, who they are, as in what type of personality they have or had prior to getting the PTSD, has nothing to do with the PTSD reactions. PTSD can change the quietest, most reserved or the happiest most outgoing person into a paranoid, aggressive, fearful, angry person in moments of stress or perceived stress.

In this case, it could have been something as simple as he had a headache, and she yelled from her car to his about paying for the gas. Nine times out of ten, that is exactly what it sounds like, someone getting your attention and reminding you to pay for the gas. That ten time, in a PTSD mind, that is her yelling at him and saying he is a failure, incompetent and not able to take care of himself, inciting fear, aggression and anger.

PTSD is a trigger disability, that changes a person's entire personality during times of stress. The trigger often has nothing to do with the reality of a situation, but more often the perception of the person with PTSD. And yes, depending on how severe the PTSD is, they paranoid, emotional reactions can last for days. I count the days my SO is 'normal' or his old self on one hand in a month, and the days he is 'PTSD'ing' are numerous. This is what makes PTSD such a tragic disability.

It doesn't make it an excuse. Nor mean that a person should not pay for their actions while under the influence of PTSD. It just makes it more understandable when things happen. I think, if it was Howard, he lost it, attacked her, either with the knife or with his hands, and somewhere in his mind realized what he had done, panicked, tried to cover it up to make it look like a random murder, then went into total denial. What I don't know, and have no idea of knowing is at what point he began to admit to himself he did this, and began to go into the 'PTSD damage control mode'. I think it is when they found the car, but I'm not sure. At any point, the PTSD would have been telling him 'hide it, don't let anyone know you are a monster, they will hang you, they will beat you, they will lynch you' from whenever he stopped denying it to himself. It doesn't make it acceptable, it just makes it pitiful if from my point of view.

I sure hope she wasn't left in that ditch to die, I hope it was over quick for her, and the majority of wounds were not felt due to unconsciousness, hopefully, if they weren't post mortem.

I have a somewhat different understanding of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. That is, I understood that PTSD is caused by a specific event where the person experiences an extreme trauma, or stress, such that he, or she, is unable to cope. When that person experiences a similar situation (to the one that caused the PTSD) at a later time, or perceives a similar situation, the same extreme stress response can occur.

Being yelled at, or feeling incompetent, would not be a trigger that causes PTSD in a soldier, so, in my opinion, those two events would not result in a PTSD response at a later time.

These are the PTSD Symptoms:

• intrusive memories,
• avoidance and numbing, and
• increased anxiety or emotional arousal (hyperarousal)

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/post-traumatic-stress-disorder/DS00246/DSECTION=symptoms

I don't see any connection, or common ground, between a stressor, or trigger, that happened during war and an interaction with a spouse. I think that this 50 year old man was either jealous or angry with his wife, for one reason or another, and that he decided to follow her to the South Keyes shopping centre and attack her.

Similar Case: Brad Cooper murdered his wife in NC a couple of years ago. They had huge financial problems, she had uncontrolled spending and wanted to live "rich", she sometimes ridiculed him in front of friends, and there was adultery. One night, after spending an evening with friends, he murdered her, drove her to a drainage ditch, removed some of her clothes and then played the grieving husband role. It was a straight forward spousal homicide - no PTSD.

 

[otto]

"Post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms can come and go. You may have more post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms when things are stressful in general, or when you run into reminders of what you went through. You may hear a car backfire and relive combat experiences, for instance. Or you may see a report on the news about a rape and feel overcome by memories of your own assault."

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/post-traumatic-stress-disorder/DS00246/DSECTION=symptoms

What sort of trigger, similar to the PTSD trigger experienced by the husband while he was deployed in a war zone, could have happened on the night that Melissa was murdered?

 

[otto]

Well, that depends upon which direction you are looking at it from. If you are looking at it as a classification, such as a classified in DSM IV, where it is an anxiety disorder, or the more recent DSM V, which actually changes the criteria for diagnosing PTSD and creates a new subclassification of Trauma and Stress related disorders, as the DSM lists different ailments into categories such as 'Syndromes', Disorders, Diseases, etc., then yes, it is a disorder, listed under anxiety.

If you are coming at it from the direction of a coverage for benefits, it is a disability, as in the definition of a 'disability' is actually a consequence of an impairment, and that impairment can be physical, psychological, cognitive, sensory, etc. it is a disability.

DSM 5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) was released in May 2013 and includes revisions to PTSD diagnosis DSM 4 as follows: "PTSD (as well as Acute Stress Disorder) moved from the class of anxiety disorders into a new class of "trauma and stressor-related disorders."

http://www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/pages/diagnostic_criteria_dsm-5.asp

In terms of psychological or psychiatric terms, it is a disorder. As you point out, for the purpose of financial compensation, it is a disability.