Found Deceased Canada - Owen Rooney, 24, Grand Forks, BC, 14 Aug 2010

  • #241
This is an excellent article in today's paper. It includes links to maps of Owen's movements before his disappearance.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8221333/missing-aussie-may-not-know-who-he-is
Thanks Karina! That is a very comprehensive article. I am still reading through it. Two things have jumped at me so far:

1) Owen seemed to have been in need of an alarm clock or was he having too much fun that he wasn't aware of the time? I say this because in such a short time he missed a car ride back to Kelowna, and then he buys a bus ticket and misses the 9:30 am bus as well!

2) First time I read about the 10 text messages to his ex-girlfriend the night before he disappeared. Did they find this out because his girlfriend came forward and showed the messages? and... it says ex-girlfriend....so he was not in a relationship at the time he went missing? Why text her that many times in one night if she was no longer his girlfriend?

will keep on reading...thanks again Karina :)

3) Something else I noticed : he experimented with those mushrooms on the 7th, he was seemingly ok on the 12, so IMHO the mushrooms had nothing to do with him feeling confused, paranoid, etc. the effect would have been worn out by then, JMHO, since I have absolutely no experience with that kind of thing.
 
  • #242
Hi Hazel,

Yes, to miss a car ride and then two buses is a lot, so either as you say he was having too much fun in Nelson or struggling so much with dissociation that he was losing track of time.

I had heard about the 10 text messages, but am unsure over what period of time they were sent. I think I read somewhere, that Owen and Dawn had split up on August 1st, so that was not too long before Owen went missing. My online reading also has led me to believe that Dawn kept company with some very unsavoury and dangerous characters.

From what the article says he wrote about in his sms's to Dawn, it sounds like he was confused and unsure where he was and the fact that he was asking Dawn if she knew where he was seems to indicate he was not able to logically reason things out correctly, which fits with her saying that Owen didn't sound like himself and didn't make a lot of sense to her.

Now is it true the RCMP cannot obtain the content of sms's sent in Canada? In Australia the police can, so I don't really understand why the RCMP wouldn't be able to find that out. Also, Owen's iphone stopped working, but my understanding is that sms's that come through to a phone can be accessed, even if they are deleted from the phone or seemingly from the sim card, through forensic software. The devices that do this are readily available via ebay from Hong Kong for only a few dollars. Even I was able to work out how to forensically read a sim card last year without any prior knowledge of how to do it (thanks to a paedophile targeting a friend's kid via the kid's mobile phone). So if I can do it, why can't the RCMP?

SMS messages are typically saved to the mobile phone, the sim card, or both. My understanding is that Owen's mobile phone is in one piece, turns on, but is not working. Presumably apple could also fix the phone, or determine exactly why it's not working, so has this been done? or if not, why has it not been done.

Maybe I'm being judgmental here and I know the family are very happy with all the input from the RCMP, but I can't help but think that the RCMP are fairly incompetent. One person who reported that they thought Owen came to their house, reported their sighting to the RCMP within 5 minutes, but 2 weeks later were still waiting on a reply from them.

And then even if none of these were possible, presumably the RCMP could get Dawn's phone. So something doesn't add up here.

Whether Owen's magic mushroom experience was a one off or not I'm not sure. I read one article about the Shambhala sanctuary from a volunteer's perspective and he was saying that some of the people that came to the first-aid tent, would end up back there again, over and over, during the entire Shambhala event. Hopefully it was a one off, but I know from what clients have told me about some drugs, that sometimes with some drugs the first time they take it they're addicted and can't stop. Also, as others have pointed out, it depends whether the magic mushrooms were laced with something else or not.

However, my feeling is that the paranoia had long worn off before Owen disappeared. People were saying that he was fine in Nelson, so then to be fine and then revert would be unexpected, unless what he took was laced with LSD and he kept on having flashbacks etc.. But I think once he went to the hospital, he would have been honest and owned up to exactly what he took and he owned up to taking the magic mushrooms (however, unbeknown to him it could have been laced with anything).

I tend to think that what people interpreted as paranoid ramblings of Owen's were based in reality. My fear is that what others classified as "paranoid ramblings" were written off, whereas if we could discover exactly what the fear's Owen was talking about, maybe we can in fact work out more about what he was actually afraid of.

All I know is that Owen was scared of two people, who Owen believed were at Shambhala (whether they were there or not is another thing, but I believe that he'd been led to believe that those 2 people were at Shambhala). Now, paranoia is about fear not based in reality; but given the fact that Owen has disappeared, maybe his fears were in fact reality based and very real, so real in fact, that they were eventually actualized, ending up in his subsequent disappearance. When I think of this I think it doesn't look good for Owen. I'd like to know a lot more about exactly what the content of these so called paranoid ramblings were.

A lot of things don't make sense and I've been told the RCMP typically work with secrecy, however I don't know whether secrecy would help in the search for Owen, unless of course the RCMP think that Owen is dead. I'm wondering if they do think this as they recently searched some mountain for Owen, so presumably that meant that they were searching for Owen's body - it was good news they found nothing.

It's a pity that no actual sighting of Owen has been able to be verified. So in reality nobody has seen any sight of Owen since he went missing. I'm just hoping that maybe some of the sightings haven't been able to be verified one way or another, although I've been assured that all have been thoroughly checked and excluded to date.

I've spent the last couple of weeks talking with someone who said they were a friend of Owen's, had definitely met him, knew him well, and that Owen didn't want to come home. I guess I wanted to believe the person, and still wonder about it, but the extent of the gameplaying and secrecy about actually putting myself or Owen's family in touch with me undermined the credibility of the person (who was doing a lot of angling for financial gain to come up with mere video footage of Owen, rather than getting Owen to ring his family or organize to meet them). The last I heard from this person he gave me a ridiculous message to pass on to the Rooney family and expected me to actually believe that it had come from Owen (when frankly even I who have never met Owen thought the message sounded like nothing Owen would ever say, but interestingly sounded exactly like what the person chatting to me would say). I personally think that people who make false reports should be jailed as they just derail the investigation, but then again, maybe that's their purpose.

Hopefully we can find Owen alive and well soon.
 
  • #243
I also wondered how bad his paranoia could have been if he was able to read a book at the hospital. Apparently he was able to concentrate enough to read. Leaving his stuff behind could simply mean that he went for a walk and planned on returning. My first thought when he went missing is that he had a water accident like several other young men. There is a river not too far from the hospital. I read about a few drownings in that river but not in Grand Forks. The river didn't look very deep to me from pictures. I don't know how deep it was when Owen disappeared. Anyhow, I know they searched the area and the river but I just wondered how far downstream they went. I hope I don't sound too negative, but is anyone still searching in the Grand Forks area?
 
  • #244
About 1/2 hour ago, I read the above article that Hazel linked to. I was shocked to read that Owen was given Percocet and that staff last checked on him at 6:30 am. My first thought was why they would give Percs for pain without having done at least a CT scan, and why so long that he was not checked on by staff. Now POOF !! The same article contains no reference to either of those previously stated facts.

Am I hallucinating?

ETA: Whew !! billy is okay ... those facts were in the comments that accompany the map:

http://www.bing.com/maps/Default.as...31&lvl=9&dir=0&sty=u&cid=BF8857CE507FFC83!325

FWIW .. Percocet alone can cause hallucinations and paranoia. Years ago I was prescribed them for severe headaches and instructed to take 1 pill xx times a day. I was nervous of them, so took 1/2 a pill then went to see the movie, McKenna's Gold. Next thing I knew headache was gone, but ... I had to leave because, well ... the gold mine had encompassed the entire theatre around me, and all the movie goers were looking at me. Got outside for some air and seemed okay. Went to a restaurant ... had to leave because all the people were looking at me. Only time in my life that I hallucinated on medication and became paranoid (except when people were really following me around).

So, based on my experience, that particular drug should have been contraindicated in someone who has already experienced paranoia. Doesn't make sense to me, but JMO
 
  • #245
Percocet at rxlist:

http://www.rxlist.com/percocet-drug.htm

Sub-categories are on the sidebar to the left. Under "Warnings & Precautions":

Head Injury and Increased Intracranial Pressure
The respiratory depressant effects of opioids include carbon dioxide retention and secondary elevation of cerebrospinal fluid pressure, and may be markedly exaggerated in the presence of head injury, other intracranial lesions or a pre-existing increase in intracranial pressure. Oxycodone produces effects on pupillary response and consciousness which may obscure neurologic signs of worsening in patients with head injuries.
<bbm>

Under "Side Effects & Drug Interactions", they list hallucinations under "Psychiatric" (but not paranoia, so I must be very special indeed ;))

On another note, why have the people who admittedly beat Owen not been charged with assault? The assault and their admission to it appears to be sufficiently documented by both LE and the Boundary Hospital. I guarantee if someone comes into my home or on my property and I assault them, I would be charged. So, whazzupwitdat?
 
  • #246
Whether he was taking anything in if he was reading is another thing. But yes if Owen was reading and taking in what he was reading, that would indicate that he was doing well, however, that's really impossible to determine. However, people all the time stare at books or read the words and then re-read them and fail to take in what they are reading.

Where did you her or read that he was reading a book? I hadn't heard that - not to say it's not true though.

I'm assuming that Owen could swim since his siblings can (as shown in photos on Owen's fb page).
 
  • #247
Excellent points Sillybilly. I know of no hospital in the Western World that does observations only once a day! So for Owen not to have had any obs taken for over 12 hours is absolutely staggeringly negligent in my opinion.

Someone either on this forum or another, pointed out that if the hospital staff took obs at 6.30am and then Owen was observed to be sitting out at a picnic table (presumably from inside the hospital), then they could easily have confused him with one of the other patients at the hospital.

I suspect to own up to the fact that they hadn't checked on Owen during the day might end up in a staff member(s) losing their job. How thorough was the investigation into hospital staff rostered on that day?

If Owen was admitted Friday night, and the hospital was small, his case might have been deemed non-urgent, so they probably didn't bother calling in a radiographer to run a CT scan on him.

I don't know what ran through Owen's mind that day. But if I'd been sitting around in a hospital from 6.30am in the morning and had no staff check on me, no interventions done, then I'd be wondering why my hard earned money is going on a hospital room when they weren't doing anything for me. I'd just up and walk out I think myself. I mean if Owen thought that they'd give him an argument, had indicated to the staff he wasn't really happy hanging around (I have no idea if this was the case), I'd just think once I had my opportunity to leave, I'd be gone. If I was in that situation though, I'd be ringing a friend on my mobile phone and telling them I was in hospital and asking them for a lift back home or to a bus station. The question is who did Owen ring that day and at what stage did his mobile phone stop working? It sounds like from that article on ninemsn.com that he was sms'ing Dawn the night before he went missing from the hospital, so why did it stop working all of a sudden - what happened to it? It just kind of seems too convenient for it to kark it at that time.

The percocet Owen was given is expressly contraindicated in instructions re the medication. It is not meant to be given to people with head injuries, and it is also not meant to be given to people with drug problems. Given that it was a small hospital, maybe a nurse prescribed the medication for Owen on the basis of a quick phone call to a doctor.

But if these were the symptoms of Percocet, Owen was probably with it enough to realize that he was feeling a LOT worse after time in there than he was before he was hospitalized. I'm thinking that Owen sat outside a lot that day as he was looking for his opportunity to go off.

However, Owen would have been at risk of seizures, not only from the medication, but also from his head injury. If he had gone for a walk, it's quite plausible that Owen might have passed out and slipped down an embankment into the river. Did they search it extensively?

Given that he was sms'ing his ex-gf Dawn the previous night, in my opinion, it would be logical for Owen to ask Dawn for a lift home or to a bus station.

I also agree with SillyBilly it is strange that the people that bashed Owen up so brutally have not been charged. HOWEVER, I can think of one good reason that they may not have been charged. If Owen turns up dead, and I hope to God he doesn't, but kind of suspect that this is what the RCMP think has happened to Owen, given that they recently searched some mountain in the vicinity for Owen's body, that if they are charged with assault, and Owen's body turns up, they then won't be able to charge them with murder as they've already been convicted over the same incident. Would this make sense to those that know Canadian laws?

I also think that if Owen was convinced that his ex-gf was on that property, it could also make sense to Owen to have returned back to the farm again. And given the severity of the bashing given to Owen on the farm, if he had returned there, I don't think the owners of the property would have had any qualms at all about killing him.
 
  • #248
Thanks dotr, I had been looking for the date :)

From "Find Owen Rooney" site:

Posted by Rooney Family at 9:24 PM - Monday, February 28, 2011
Watch The Fifth Estate on CBC TV on March 11th
We have recently been contacted by CBC TV's The Fifth Estate . They have documented Owen's story and our journey in looking for him. It airs on CBC Friday March 11th at 9pm. It will give you all a good picture of our journey so far and we share some unanswered questions that someone can hopefully help us with. Please take the time to watch, or if not you can find it after Friday at www.cbc.ca/fifth

Thanks for all your love and support.
........​
http://www.find-owen.com/

For the "Preview", see my posts #175 & #176 (above)

Reminder about the show tonight,available online after this airing.
 
  • #249
Just posted this article on Lyle & Marie McCann's thread...

I believe it is also relevant in this thread, because of the text messages and Dawn being in Alberta. IMO LE might be in possession of all the text messages between Owen and Dawn, hence them ruling her out of any involvement.

I am hoping tonight's FE will answer some of the many questions we have. I find all the details in this case very confusing and a lot of things don't make any sense.
One question that hasn't been answered is if Owen had some kind of travel insurance? His mother mentioned in one of the latest news that Owen's work visa was now expired, so now we know he came to Canada with a work visa. I am assuming he must have had medical insurance, right?

New law helps with missing persons
Alberta has introduced legislation that would force banks, phone companies and Internet providers to quickly provide personal information to police in missing person cases.

The data would have to be handed over even if there was no proof that the person was a crime victim.
..................

Police say getting speedier access to text messages, banking records or a person&#8217;s computer browsing history would give officers a jump when they are trying to find a dementia patient who has wandered away or someone who may have been abducted
read more: http://www.metronews.ca/edmonton/local/article/799743--new-law-helps-with-missing-persons
 
  • #250
Watched the Fifth Estate episode. I would be really interested in knowing when the filming was done (due to some comments contained). We have been told that RCMP do not consider the ex-gf to be involved, but so much of tonites episode was about how evasive she has been with the family. Seems she has refused to meet with any of Owen's family members, even though they have travelled all the way to Grande Prairie to meet with her on a couple of occasions.

They showed a picture of the house in Christina Lake (small, non-descript bungalow with an antique truck, maybe Model T, in a snow-covered driveway). RCMP stated they would like to give the two men polygraphs. Seems they have a warrant out for at least one of them on another matter, and are hoping to bring him in to question them. Seems these two guys are being evasive as well.
 
  • #251
Thanks for the summary of the show sillybilly, I'm not sure when I'll be able to view it - I have to wait until someone uploads it to youtube.

Interesting how Owen's ex-gf has refused to meet with Owen's family - I wonder why that is.

I wish the RCMP would give the two men polygraphs, it all sounds very dogy.

In the ninemsn newspaper article http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8221333/missing-aussie-may-not-know-who-he-is it says that there were 10 sms's sent between Owen and his ex-gf before he disappeared. Now we know the messages were sent before Owen disappeared as he left his iphone in his hospital room.

According to the above newspaper article, Owen's ex-gf says he was asking her if she knew where he was. Now I'm thinking that that might be because Owen thought that she or someone she knew might have had something to do with Owen being bashed up (or else why else would he be asking her if she knew where he was). Now everyone has said Owen was paranoid, but what if he wasn't - I'm very concerned that much of what Owen has said during his time at Shambhala and after has been totally written off as paranoid ramblings. But, as I've said before, it's likely his fears, or at least some of them were real, as he's disappeared. Interesting the Fifth Estate programme talks about two men - my information was that he was avoiding two men at Shambhala and had to pretty much sneak into Shambhala. Owen took the magic mushrooms at Shambhala, so there would be no reason for him to be paranoid before Shambhala.

I'd personally really like ALL statements made by Owen to be compiled (statements to Shambhala First Aid People, Shambhala Sanctuary Tent People, SMS's to the ex-gf, statements made to the nursing staff at the hospital and doctors, statements made to the LE that took Owen to the bus stop). I'd then like them to preferably be released to the public, so they can be examined for suggestions and treated seriously, rather than be written off as some paranoid ramblings when in fact that may have been quite real, quite rational and possibly may contain crucial clues as to Owen's whereabouts.

I too think the ex-gf knows a lot more and frankly believe that she should be brought in by the RCMP and extensively interviewed. There's been too much pussy footing around by the RCMP in my opinion and too much done in secret, which frankly is just protecting people who are concealing information about Owen.
 
  • #252
This article below makes sense to me, that Owen decided to head for Grand Prairie. Grand Prairie I believe is where his ex was living.

Owen went to Castlegear and for some reason believed that his ex-gf was on a property there. He then got bashed up. He repeatedly sms'd his ex-gf after he was bashed up and before he went to hospital. I don't know whether he sent his ex-gf sms's from the hospital or not. So this means for days he'd been trying to see his ex, so it makes sense that he leaves the hospital to see her. She was the one he reached out to after he got bashed, so it makes sense in my opinion that Owen would leave the hospital to see her.

http://news.inthekoots.com/2010/11/11/owen-rooney-search-looks-east/
 
  • #253
I'm trying to get a sense of what time Owen walked from the bus depot to the hospital in relation to his last text message to the ex-gf. In the notes at

http://www.bing.com/maps/Default.as...31&lvl=9&dir=0&sty=u&cid=BF8857CE507FFC83!325

under Aug 13 it says he went to the hospital. Under that same date, it goes on to say he texted the ex-gf at 9:30 am. Because the "9:30" entry appears after the statement that he went to hospital, i'm not sure whether they meant he texted her earlier on Aug 13, or the morning of Saturday, Aug 14.
 
  • #254
I am not suggesting this is the case for Owen, but this case from 2001 was interesting in that it involved odd behaviour following a beating on this foreign mystery man.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/4263103/Sometimes-it-pays-to-forget.html

Sometimes it pays to forget
By Dr Theodore Dalrymple 12:00AM BST 17 Jun 2001
Comment
MEMORY is not an honest faculty. It can retrospectively transform personal defeats into spectacular victories and turn past vices into virtues. There is no feat of dishonesty too great for its powers: and what we forget is almost as important as what we remember.

There is no more dramatic form of forgetfulness than what is known as global amnesia, such as a man now known as Philip Staufen exhibits. He stumbled into a Toronto hospital in 1999 with a bloody nose, dyed blond hair, a British accent and no memory of anything that occurred in his life prior to his arrival in the hospital. The name he now bears was the first that came into his head when asked, a concoction that does not correspond to any traceable person.
 
  • #255
According to the above newspaper article, Owen's ex-gf says he was asking her if she knew where he was. Now I'm thinking that that might be because Owen thought that she or someone she knew might have had something to do with Owen being bashed up (or else why else would he be asking her if she knew where he was). Now everyone has said Owen was paranoid, but what if he wasn't - I'm very concerned that much of what Owen has said during his time at Shambhala and after has been totally written off as paranoid ramblings. But, as I've said before, it's likely his fears, or at least some of them were real, as he's disappeared.
*Snipped*. Interesting post. I never understood why Owen would get such a beating for just trespassing. I also wonder who these people were. If indeed there is a connection between the people that beat Owen up for 'trespassing' and his ex-gf that would change the possible scenario(s) considerably. IMO.
 
  • #256
http://www.find-owen.com/2011/03/for-those-of-you-outside-of-canada.html

Saturday, March 12, 2011

You can view Fifth Estate show about our family's search for Owen on YouTube here:

A huge thank you to CBC TV's Fifth Estate for doing the show, and a thank you to Mason H. for putting on YouTube so our friends outside of Canada can see it.

Thank you for all your love and support. You keep our spirits up.
Posted by Rooney Family at 6:50 PM

Video link at site
 
  • #257
Hey guys,
Haven't posted in a while so please forgive the random intervening!
Just had a thought.. the "ex" gf has been questionable in this case and it makes me wonder if she had him beat up by her guy friends (perhaps they were protective/angry and this beating was on her behalf) as we don't know what the reason(s) for their split was and if so could she have helped facilitate his demise by effectively, 'luring' him back to her (them...?) Could they have pretended to be her when they texted him from her phone? (or any phone really..)
Could he have had his life threatened (Dee link below stating his reluctantly to get care initially) and have left the hospital to avoid confrontation and questions he was afraid to answer? (Maybe the same reason that the ex gf is being quiet too) and the guys that beat him did not want him to reveal their identities/drug possession (in general or could this be where he got the drugs from?) or even illegal residency? (again, neither does the ex gf offer much information..)
Could he have lied to the nurses about what drugs he took or were they laced and he didn't know what he ended up taking? Medication (as already discused in this thread) can have some potentially fatal interactions and side effects and if the nurses had concluded the wrong drug(s) that he took well you see where that could create some serious issues..
I would like to know what his last withdrawals were/bank statements (any big purchases leading up to the time he was in hospital? Big withdrawal could indicate drug purchase or even just travel expenses giving some time frame reference of his whereabouts right up until the card(s) activity became stale.. did he travel anywhere notable the week before that his parents would deem out of character or random/suspicious? Has anyone checked his inbox/outbox and/or other internet activity leading up to his disappearance?
Judging by his injuries I wonder If they meant to kill him and either got intetupted if he managed to escape or they thought the job was done if he passed out or played dead?
This is all speculation, ofcourse...
I apologize if I have repeated anything already addressed. This case has a lot of loose ends and no hard facts so its hard to get a real sense of the foundation of the series of events and eventual outcome at the hospital. Very suspect.. the ex needs to talk..IMO, she must know something; if nothing other than what caused them to break up. That information could be a vital lead....
<3
"RCMP first encountered Rooney in August they offered to take him to the hospital for treatment of a head injury as he had admitted he had been in a fight but did not want police involvement. Rooney asked instead to be taken to the bus depot to make his way home to Kelowna. He actually bought a bus ticket and got on the bus before stepping off again. He then went to the hospital where he was treated overnight. It was the next day that he disappeared leaving behind his personal belonging." -source: http://boundarysentinel.com/news/video-released-rcmp-owen-rooney-case
 
  • #258
Interesting link Lxo, in particular the following paragraph "&#8220;We have spoken to those parties there. At this time there is a criminal investigation open as it relates to the incident itself as it was part and parcel of him going missing,&#8221; said Moskaluk."" I'd interpret that as the RCMP believing that these 2 men who bashed Owen had something to do with Owen's disappearance. Is that how others read it?
 
  • #259
  • #260
If Owen lived and worked in Kelowna BC, but had a gf who lived in Grande Prairie AB, I wonder how they met when she had never been to the Kelowna area?


ETA:
Lordy ... just watched the video and there is no way that is a Model T in front of that house ... sorry if I misled anyone with that.

Now, correct me if i'm wrong on this one ... at 8:22 in the above video, is that not a punching bag hanging in the carport?
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
48
Guests online
1,540
Total visitors
1,588

Forum statistics

Threads
632,539
Messages
18,628,122
Members
243,189
Latest member
kaylabmaree32
Back
Top