CANADA Canada - Ronald, 26, & Doreen Jack, 26, & 2 boys, Prince George, BC, 1 Aug 1989

[Pennysmom1]

Jack Family September 11, 2019

Clipping found in The Province published in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada on 9/11/2019. Jack Family September 11, 2019

www.newspapers.com

The Jacks, a married couple and their two sons disappear from British Columbia in 1989

A blog about the many missing, murdered, and unidentified Native/Indigenous/Aboriginal women of the United States and Canada. Say Their Names!

www.justicefornativepeople.com

 

[tarabull]

Prince George’s Missing and Murdered | Eve Lazarus

A page that lists and honours the missing people of Prince George, BC and for those who were murdered and have still not received justice

evelazarus.com

 

[JanePelp]

CBC News · Posted: Sep 10, 2019 9:37 AM PDT | Last Updated: September 10, 2019
A three-day search on a property in northern B.C. for a missing family has turned up no evidence of Ronnie or Doreen Jack or their two sons Russell and Ryan, according to RCMP.
It's been 30 years since the Jack family disappeared from their home in Prince George in the summer of 1989.
RCMP say they don't have any specific evidence to conclude the family met with foul play but at this stage they're "treating this as a homicide until proven otherwise," said Cpl. Craig Douglass.

Does anyone know of ANY other family abductions happening in Canada? In my amateur research experience with criminology and missing persons this is rare, but unlikely to be someone's first k*ll.

I have a few thoughts...
A) The disappearance.
Ronnie worked in the industry and the unidentified man from the bar used that to gain trust. To do so, one would imagine he had at least enough knowledge about the logging/forestry industry to not set off any immediate alarm bells.... That is, aside from the camps daycare. Now I'm no lumberjack but I don't know of any logging camps that have daycares this day and age. Maybe back then Occupational Health and Safety violations were fewer and far between. Maybe someone can educate me on this part of my speculation?
B) The phone call.
Gordie's Ranch? Jordie's Ranch? Is there no way to cross-referrence anything at all for ranches/Farm lands in the area? Ranches/Farm lands are usually named after someone, and usually for generations. Even if renamed or in the case of new ownership, it's possible they kept the name or made a small alteration to the old one. Unless, they too, heard this phone call on the news at the time.. Perhaps a ranch changed it's name shortly after that? If they *were* burried on the South end of Gordie's Ranch, perhaps someone moved them shortly thereafter? Maybe someone quickly cleaned up their property/had a large burn/got rid of old barrels or vehicles on their farm? Demolished an old shed or built overtop or something?

***TRIGGER WARNING (descriptive content)

unless some other component such as ac*d or f*re were used, it would be difficult to hide an entire family, d or a...

 

[seasideForest]

Does anyone know of ANY other family abductions happening in Canada? In my amateur research experience with criminology and missing persons this is rare, but unlikely to be someone's first k*ll.

There was the Likness/O'Brien case CANADA - Canada - Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 Media, Maps,Timeline, No Discussion A 5yo was abducted and murdered together with his grandparents.

There's a very old case of a whole family gone missing, I think from Sask or Man, which was never resolved. I'm going to have to say MOO because I can't even remember the names or even what decade. 1940's? 1950's? 1960's?

There was the case of Hailey Dunbar-Blanchette who was abducted and murdered. Her father was murdered immediately before the abduction possibly to enable it or possibly because the perp wanted him dead anyway - I can't remember - but you can probably find that information if you read up on the case https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/amber-alert-2-year-old-crowsnest-pass-1.3227949

A Halden family went missing from Quesnel, B.C. in 1921. Parents and a 13yo son. 1921 story Montreal Gazette missing Halden family One free article allowed - it's a copy of a newspaper article from 1921.

I don't suppose these cases have anything to do with the disappearance of the Jack family, if that's where your question was leading. JMO

 

[worldwatcher]

CBC News · Posted: Sep 10, 2019 9:37 AM PDT | Last Updated: September 10, 2019
A three-day search on a property in northern B.C. for a missing family has turned up no evidence of Ronnie or Doreen Jack or their two sons Russell and Ryan, according to RCMP.
It's been 30 years since the Jack family disappeared from their home in Prince George in the summer of 1989.
RCMP say they don't have any specific evidence to conclude the family met with foul play but at this stage they're "treating this as a homicide until proven otherwise," said Cpl. Craig Douglass.

Does anyone know of ANY other family abductions happening in Canada? In my amateur research experience with criminology and missing persons this is rare, but unlikely to be someone's first k*ll.

I have a few thoughts...
A) The disappearance.
Ronnie worked in the industry and the unidentified man from the bar used that to gain trust. To do so, one would imagine he had at least enough knowledge about the logging/forestry industry to not set off any immediate alarm bells.... That is, aside from the camps daycare. Now I'm no lumberjack but I don't know of any logging camps that have daycares this day and age. Maybe back then Occupational Health and Safety violations were fewer and far between. Maybe someone can educate me on this part of my speculation?
B) The phone call.
Gordie's Ranch? Jordie's Ranch? Is there no way to cross-referrence anything at all for ranches/Farm lands in the area? Ranches/Farm lands are usually named after someone, and usually for generations. Even if renamed or in the case of new ownership, it's possible they kept the name or made a small alteration to the old one. Unless, they too, heard this phone call on the news at the time.. Perhaps a ranch changed it's name shortly after that? If they *were* burried on the South end of Gordie's Ranch, perhaps someone moved them shortly thereafter? Maybe someone quickly cleaned up their property/had a large burn/got rid of old barrels or vehicles on their farm? Demolished an old shed or built overtop or something?

***TRIGGER WARNING (descriptive content)

unless some other component such as ac*d or f*re were used, it would be difficult to hide an entire family, d or a...

Do you think, that the perp was also active, in the USA?
I am not sure, if my memory is correct, but I do remember that the suspect of the Springfield 3, was described as a man with sandy, reddish hair.

 

[dotr]

Prince George RCMP - Jack Family investigation continues

Jack Family investigation continues

bc-cb.rcmp-grc.gc.ca

Jack Family investigation continues​

Prince George, Missing Person

2024-08-26 10:21 PDT

File # 1989-26607

August 2, 2024 marked the 35-year anniversary of the disappearance of four members of the Jack family. Doreen, Ronald, Ryan and Russell were reported missing after failing to return from an alleged job opportunity Ronald had west of Prince George. The circumstances of their disappearance are largely unknown, despite the hours of investigation that have been ongoing since 1989.

Click here for a larger collage of images of the members of the Jack family, Ronald, Doreen, Russell and Ryan.

This is the type of investigation that relies heavily on what we can learn from the public. It is unlike investigations today where we can track people using their digital footprint. There is no surveillance to review, no banking records to follow or cell phone records to examine. There is little that would give us a clue as to where the Jack family went after they were last seen, states Sgt. Aaron Whitehouse, commander of the Serious Crime Unit.

That is not to say there are no investigational steps to be taken, however. Prince George RCMP’s Serious Crime Unit has a dedicated investigator attached to the search, who continues to follow up on all verifiable tips received from the public. This work involves examining original file material against new tips. Many of the tips received today were already thoroughly investigated before.

Click here for a larger image of some of the boxes storing the thousands of documents accumulated during the investigation.

As with all missing persons investigations, this investigation will remain open until such time as the Jack family is located. Prince George RCMP continues to work in collaboration with our law enforcement partners, Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal agencies, and the public on this case and continues to encourage community support in bringing forward new information for investigation.

 

[JanePelp]

There was the Likness/O'Brien case CANADA - Canada - Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 Media, Maps,Timeline, No Discussion A 5yo was abducted and murdered together with his grandparents.

There's a very old case of a whole family gone missing, I think from Sask or Man, which was never resolved. I'm going to have to say MOO because I can't even remember the names or even what decade. 1940's? 1950's? 1960's?

There was the case of Hailey Dunbar-Blanchette who was abducted and murdered. Her father was murdered immediately before the abduction possibly to enable it or possibly because the perp wanted him dead anyway - I can't remember - but you can probably find that information if you read up on the case https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/amber-alert-2-year-old-crowsnest-pass-1.3227949

A Halden family went missing from Quesnel, B.C. in 1921. Parents and a 13yo son. 1921 story Montreal Gazette missing Halden family One free article allowed - it's a copy of a newspaper article from 1921.

I don't suppose these cases have anything to do with the disappearance of the Jack family, if that's where your question was leading. JMO

I guess my post was quite nuanced. The Jack Family is a case that I believe to be solvable and that case is my ultimate query.. However, I think it's imperative to seek out any available information in regards to similar cases. I was unaware of 3 / 4 cases you commented, and that is that 2 / 4 are seemingly child-based motives, and the other 2 are at MINIMUM 30+ older than that of the Jack Family.

Thank you for commenting.

 

[legomonster]

I guess my post was quite nuanced. The Jack Family is a case that I believe to be solvable and that case is my ultimate query.. However, I think it's imperative to seek out any available information in regards to similar cases. I was unaware of 3 / 4 cases you commented, and that is that 2 / 4 are seemingly child-based motives, and the other 2 are at MINIMUM 30+ older than that of the Jack Family.

Thank you for commenting.

I am just looking over this and people that murder do not look for patterns necessarily. They look for easy opportunities to take advantage and found it with this poor family for ulterior motives. I do not think it will be easy to solve because their innocent trust in the absolute worst person made them such an easy mark to disappear without anyone noticing for some time. No cell towers, no cameras, no GPS, I hate to think what it was like for this poor family, what a sad case. This is all imo.

 

[seasideForest]

I guess my post was quite nuanced. The Jack Family is a case that I believe to be solvable and that case is my ultimate query.. However, I think it's imperative to seek out any available information in regards to similar cases. I was unaware of 3 / 4 cases you commented, and that is that 2 / 4 are seemingly child-based motives, and the other 2 are at MINIMUM 30+ older than that of the Jack Family.

OK thanks, I understand better now what you were looking for.

I don't think Likness/O'Brien was a child-based motive, it was more - the child was there, having a sleep-over at his grandparents unbeknownst to the perp and so he was taken too. iirc the perp was trying to take revenge on the grandfather for some slight disagreement they'd had decades ago. The grandfather was I think actually a step-grandfather - new partner of grandmother Likness.
The bodies were never found and were assumed to have ended in a burn barrel on perp's acreage. ETA: with burn barrel - that's a method you think might have been used on the Jack family.

The bodies were seen, however, just by chance by someone taking photos from a helicopter for some totally different reason - like surveying or something. MOO

 

[JanePelp]

Do you think, that the perp was also active, in the USA?
I am not sure, if my memory is correct, but I do remember that the suspect of the Springfield 3, was described as a man with sandy, reddish hair.

It's definitely not impossible as I can think of a handful of convicted serial killers who have both proven and suspected victims between Canada and the USA.

However, I don't believe it would be by 'chance.' In this case, IF that were the case, I would bet that there would be a reason for his change of locale. That is for the simple fact that it's approximately 3900 Kilometers (or almost 2500 miles) between them.

An example would be, evading police detection, job location, family in the area, etc..

 

[seasideForest]

Do you think, that the perp was also active, in the USA?

If active in the US, then I think only Alaska or Washington. JMO
But more likely somebody active just in B.C. and/or Alberta.

Prince George is at one end of the Highway of Tears, on which a lot of First Nations people disappeared, some to never be found again, some to be found deceased.

Probably everybody on this thread knows of it, but in case not: Highway of Tears - Wikipedia There's a list of the convicted and suspected murderers, and I'd be looking at it more carefully or other perps of that time frame elsewhere in B.C. and central and/or western Alberta.

JMO

 

[Cedars]

I guess my post was quite nuanced. The Jack Family is a case that I believe to be solvable and that case is my ultimate query.. However, I think it's imperative to seek out any available information in regards to similar cases. I was unaware of 3 / 4 cases you commented, and that is that 2 / 4 are seemingly child-based motives, and the other 2 are at MINIMUM 30+ older than that of the Jack Family.

Thank you for commenting.

I interpret this case as being a stranger abduction - most other cases with families are someone who knew them (possibly a member of the family).

Also, very few families would be able or want to up and all leave on an instant, voluntarily. If the perp's goal had been to abduct an entire family, IMO he'd have to approach potentially hundreds of men in bars to find that rare case. Just crazy coincidence if he'd found that with the first guy he asked.

I also doubt whether the man approached Ronald to first of all ask if he was in a relationship, because he was looking specifically for a couple...it seems to me more likely he would have just offering a job to a man at a bar, then Ronald mentioned his wife needing work too, and stranger said - sure, her too...then Ronald mentioned about the kids and perp said, sure, them too.

So what may have started as a plot for a solo abduction becomes a family.

Then there is the question of motive - maybe, if he was just looking to drive off with some guy from a bar, it was just robbery.

Finally, I don't think this person lived in the area. IMO he was passing through, and that's why he was willing to do such an outrageous thing. No one knew him, he'd never be in that area again.

JMO

 

[JanePelp]

I am just looking over this and people that murder do not look for patterns necessarily. They look for easy opportunities to take advantage and found it with this poor family for ulterior motives. I do not think it will be easy to solve because their innocent trust in the absolute worst person made them such an easy mark to disappear without anyone noticing for some time. No cell towers, no cameras, no GPS, I hate to think what it was like for this poor family, what a sad case. This is all imo.

People who murder may not look for patters but they leave them behind. They leave patterns and commonalities almost always. Of course, there are exceptions in everything. Yes, they were vulnerable, in multiple aspects. Yes, they displayed some blind trust, likely due to their vulnerabilities.. However, Ronnie also had the wherewithal to tell his family member to 'call someone if they weren't back in x amount of time' or something to that affect (not an exact quote). Statistically, this is highly unlikely to be this killer's first. Patterns off the top of my head: frequency, dates, sex, religion, social status/group, seasons, geography, I mean, my friend, there is an entire segment in Criminology that covers patterns and typologies.

 

[seasideForest]

What catches my attention is that Canada, being a first world country, I still hate their aboriginal people so much ..

BBM
Can you please tell me what you mean here? You hate Canada's indigenous peoples? Or is that a typo? Do you mean to say "Canada, being a ....country, who still hates...? Or something completely different? I'm confused.

 

[seasideForest]

Statistically, this is highly unlikely to be this killer's first.

You're probably or at least quite possibly right on this. Previous murders might have been of single adults or even children (??) rather than a whole family.

 

[JanePelp]

OK thanks, I understand better now what you were looking for.

I don't think Likness/O'Brien was a child-based motive, it was more - the child was there, having a sleep-over at his grandparents unbeknownst to the perp and so he was taken too. iirc the perp was trying to take revenge on the grandfather for some slight disagreement they'd had decades ago. The grandfather was I think actually a step-grandfather - new partner of grandmother Likness.
The bodies were never found and were assumed to have ended in a burn barrel on perp's acreage. ETA: with burn barrel - that's a method you think might have been used on the Jack family.

The bodies were seen, however, just by chance by someone taking photos from a helicopter for some totally different reason - like surveying or something. MOO

Okay, that does ring a bell and I shouldn't have misspoke, thank you for taking the time to correcting me and inform me.

 

[JanePelp]

You're probably or at least quite possibly right on this. Previous murders might have been of single adults or even children (??) rather than a whole family.

Possibly, serial killers have in the past started killing animals or torturing them. And not like hunting, or getting rid of an invasive species, but killing/strangling/hanging/torturing animals from neighborhood cats, pet birds, etc.

If any motive was clear it would give more insight IMO. Or vise versa.
How long into the conversation with Mr Ronnie was the unsub made aware he had children? If that's something Ronnie spoke of right away, the children could be part of the MO.
If Ronnie offered that information last minute in the work deal/plan, then it's less likely.

 

[JanePelp]

I interpret this case as being a stranger abduction - most other cases with families are someone who knew them (possibly a member of the family).

Also, very few families would be able or want to up and all leave on an instant, voluntarily. If the perp's goal had been to abduct an entire family, IMO he'd have to approach potentially hundreds of men in bars to find that rare case. Just crazy coincidence if he'd found that with the first guy he asked.

I also doubt whether the man approached Ronald to first of all ask if he was in a relationship, because he was looking specifically for a couple...it seems to me more likely he would have just offering a job to a man at a bar, then Ronald mentioned his wife needing work too, and stranger said - sure, her too...then Ronald mentioned about the kids and perp said, sure, them too.

So what may have started as a plot for a solo abduction becomes a family.

Then there is the question of motive - maybe, if he was just looking to drive off with some guy from a bar, it was just robbery.

Finally, I don't think this person lived in the area. IMO he was passing through, and that's why he was willing to do such an outrageous thing. No one knew him, he'd never be in that area again.

JMO

Thank you for your insight. I agree, stranger abduction.... but so rare? We are missing something.

 

[JanePelp]

If active in the US, then I think only Alaska or Washington. JMO
But more likely somebody active just in B.C. and/or Alberta.

Prince George is at one end of the Highway of Tears, on which a lot of First Nations people disappeared, some to never be found again, some to be found deceased.

Probably everybody on this thread knows of it, but in case not: Highway of Tears - Wikipedia There's a list of the convicted and suspected murderers, and I'd be looking at it more carefully or other perps of that time frame elsewhere in B.C. and central and/or western Alberta.

JMO

I can't speak on Alta.. However, I feel as though if he was one of those listed, they would have been able to make a connection somewhere over the years...

 

[legomonster]

People who murder may not look for patters but they leave them behind. They leave patterns and commonalities almost always. Of course, there are exceptions in everything. Yes, they were vulnerable, in multiple aspects. Yes, they displayed some blind trust, likely due to their vulnerabilities.. However, Ronnie also had the wherewithal to tell his family member to 'call someone if they weren't back in x amount of time' or something to that affect (not an exact quote). Statistically, this is highly unlikely to be this killer's first. Patterns off the top of my head: frequency, dates, sex, religion, social status/group, seasons, geography, I mean, my friend, there is an entire segment in Criminology that covers patterns and typologies.

I know. I have a degree in pure mathematics. Patterns are my super power. This was an opportunist who took advantage of this family and there is zero to connect him to really anything unfortunately. That's why it's so hard to solve. Other than the no cameras, technology, well, anything.