GUILTY Canada - Rori Hache, 18, pregnant, found deceased, Oshawa, Ont, 29 Aug 2017

['Ailina]

Very strange. I assume JP just thought he was a regular Joe, or a follower of his? I know JP accepts basically all of the friend requests he gets. Or was it something more? I just find it such an odd tidbit considering the work JP does.

I'm afraid I limit my FB research (personal aversion), but I'll take everyone else at their word and appreciate whatever you share.

I don't have much context about this JP/AS comment exchange, but just speculating from what little I gather, and depending in who initiated contact...

If JP was oblivious to who AS was, then it stands to reason AS knew exactly who JP was. Which means, AS has an enormous ego and thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed JP's naivete, MUCH like the repulsive photos on his (AS) FB. His attitude might hypothetically be, "Ha ha, you think I'm a regular good guy, but the joke's on you because I'm a 'freak'."

If JP initiated contact, maybe he had AS on his radar?

Sorry if all of that is clear as mud.

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[Grey-St]

I'm afraid I limit my FB research (personal aversion), but I'll take everyone else at their word and appreciate whatever you share.

I don't have much context about this JP/AS comment exchange, but just speculating from what little I gather, and depending in who initiated contact...

If JP was oblivious to who AS was, then it stands to reason AS knew exactly who JP was. Which means, AS has an enormous ego and thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed JP's naivete, MUCH like the repulsive photos on his (AS) FB. His attitude might hypothetically be, "Ha ha, you think I'm a regular good guy, but the joke's on you because I'm a 'freak'."

If JP initiated contact, maybe he had AS on his radar?

Sorry if all of that is clear as mud.

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No you are bang on! Not muddy at all. Either AS was on JP's radar, or AS made the bold move of seeking out JP. The "learned behaviour" of supporting JP's work because pedophilia is wrong. I think it's the later.

 

['Ailina]

No you are bang on! Not muddy at all. Either AS was on JP's radar, or AS made the bold move of seeking out JP. The "learned behaviour" of supporting JP's work because pedophilia is wrong. I think it's the later.

(Thank you for the attagirl -- I heart encouragement!)

If it is the latter, the implications are horrifying to me. I know the world is teeming with internet-saavy folks -- WS is a shining, positive example --but on the flip side of that, AS is an example of the very worst kind of sexual predator. He not only likely used the internet in very sophisticated ways to find potential and actual victims -- he probably logged hundreds of hours monitoring people who routinely or vocationally monitor sexual predators. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he has a WS account.

(Edited BBC code)

 

[Grey-St]

(Thank you for the attagirl -- I heart encouragement!)

If it is the latter, the implications are horrifying to me. I know the world is teeming with internet-saavy folks -- WS is a shining, positive example --but on the flip side of that, AS is an example of the very worst kind of sexual predator. He not only likely used the internet in very sophisticated ways to find potential and actual victims -- he probably logged hundreds of hours monitoring people who routinely or vocationally monitor sexual predators. In fact, [em]I wouldn't be surprised at all if he has a WS account.[/em]

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Oh goodness, is that ever true. Those are indeed horrifying implications. My mind hadn't gone to that depth yet. I think him following JP is telling for a few reasons. Like previously mentioned, the learned behaviour of supporting his work because pedophilia is "wrong", then there's the thought that he may have an actual (sick) interest in pedophilia and he's overcompensating, then there's the fact that he could be following to see how these people who monitor sexual predators operate, to gain further insight, as to not be detected. He did posted about how he likes his women helpless.

The same could go for crime forums also. You're right.

The web is such a vast place. The majority of it positive, but if put into the wrong hands, some of it not so much. You can find a site to help you with anything. From fixing your toilet and other life hacks, to how to hang yourself or make a bomb. It's horrible, I know, but it's out there.

Oy, I just can't help but think of how many other victims there could be when it comes to AS.

 

[photographer4]

Ok so Rori's torso was found by a fisherman and his 11yr old grandson floating in the harbour on September 11, 2017 around 8:30pm (per news reports). I checked, the sun set around 7:30pm that evening, so it would already have been fairly dark. Too dark probably for photos without flash or some sort of exterior lighting was available, yet, soon thereafter police put out a request for people to stop sharing photos of the torso on social media.

My question is: who managed to even get a photo of the torso? I was wondering - if AS was known to visit "best gore" (a website), as per his own profile on fb, who's to say that he didn't take and share photos of the torso himself? I couldn't help but notice the police didn't suggest where the photos had been taken (eg: down at the lake as it was brought up, or on the pier while awaiting a coroner). Plus, police probably would have covered it up with a tarp or something while waiting for additional investigators to arrive.

I know from experience it would be difficult to get a shot at that time of day, in low light, without either being up close, or using a long lens and having light available (eg: flash on the camera, or the torso being lit by police lights or flashlights). It wouldn't be an easy shot to get on a cell phone at a distance - it would be grainy and dark. So where did the photo(s) of the torso get taken?

I believe the police checked the gore sites and found the photos of the torso were already there from before she was found. I cannot prove it, but its a reasonable theory isn't it?

 

[Grey-St]

Ok so Rori's torso was found by a fisherman and his 11yr old grandson floating in the harbour on September 11, 2017 around 8:30pm (per news reports). I checked, the sun set around 7:30pm that evening, so it would already have been fairly dark. Too dark probably for photos without flash or some sort of exterior lighting was available, yet, soon thereafter police put out a request for people to stop sharing photos of the torso on social media.

My question is: who managed to even get a photo of the torso? I was wondering - if AS was known to visit "best gore" (a website), as per his own profile on fb, who's to say that he didn't take and share photos of the torso himself? I couldn't help but notice the police didn't suggest where the photos had been taken (eg: down at the lake as it was brought up, or on the pier while awaiting a coroner). Plus, police probably would have covered it up with a tarp or something while waiting for additional investigators to arrive.

I know from experience it would be difficult to get a shot at that time of day, in low light, without either being up close, or using a long lens and having light available (eg: flash on the camera, or the torso being lit by police lights or flashlights). It wouldn't be an easy shot to get on a cell phone at a distance - it would be grainy and dark. So where did the photo(s) of the torso get taken?

I believe the police checked the gore sites and found the photos of the torso were already there from before she was found. I cannot prove it, but its a reasonable theory isn't it?

It is a reasonable theory. I was always perplexed by that statement from police. I personally never saw any torso photo circulated. However, I don't go on gore sites. With all the information you've given on time of day the torso was found, and photography, it is certainly plausible. I most definitely wouldn't put that past AS.

One would think that would have put them on AS's tail sooner, though. IP address of where the photo was uploaded? Or is this site on the dark web? Are things like this untraceable on the dark web?

Is it possible that the toros was actually found earlier than 8:30pm, in daylight, and is just being reported as 8:30pm? Then again, I would doubt a grandfather would take a photo of it and post it on social media, and the police would not circulate any images taken. So yes, I'd say your theory stands.

 

[dotr]

Ok so Rori's torso was found by a fisherman and his 11yr old grandson floating in the harbour on September 11, 2017 around 8:30pm (per news reports). I checked, the sun set around 7:30pm that evening, so it would already have been fairly dark. Too dark probably for photos without flash or some sort of exterior lighting was available, yet, soon thereafter police put out a request for people to stop sharing photos of the torso on social media.

My question is: who managed to even get a photo of the torso? I was wondering - if AS was known to visit "best gore" (a website), as per his own profile on fb, who's to say that he didn't take and share photos of the torso himself? I couldn't help but notice the police didn't suggest where the photos had been taken (eg: down at the lake as it was brought up, or on the pier while awaiting a coroner). Plus, police probably would have covered it up with a tarp or something while waiting for additional investigators to arrive.

I know from experience it would be difficult to get a shot at that time of day, in low light, without either being up close, or using a long lens and having light available (eg: flash on the camera, or the torso being lit by police lights or flashlights). It wouldn't be an easy shot to get on a cell phone at a distance - it would be grainy and dark. So where did the photo(s) of the torso get taken?

I believe the police checked the gore sites and found the photos of the torso were already there from before she was found. I cannot prove it, but its a reasonable theory isn't it?

Interesting, maybe someone did upload photos of the torso for the reason suggested in link below, rbbm, imo, speculation.
http://torontosun.com/2017/09/15/ph...line/wcm/83a83799-22ab-4b6c-9205-b053724b3a50

Durham Regional Police say the Sept. 11 discovery of the partial remains by a fisherman in Lake Ontario — at the bottom of Simcoe St. S. — have been deemed the region’s eighth murder of the year.

“Police are aware that pictures of the torso have been circulating on various social media platforms,” Const. George Tudos said Friday. “Investigators urge anyone with photographic evidence to contact them as soon as possible.”

“Police also urge people to refrain from posting such photographs on social media as this may interfere with the successful investigation of this homicide,” he added.

 

[photographer4]

It would be interesting to know as well what state the remains found were in? Police probably know whether the circulated photos were taken at the pier on discovery or before the torso was found. I wouldn't put it past police to play a cat & mouse game with whoever sent the remains to the lake. It could have been a hidden message to AS to let him know they knew he had photos posted, even if they didn't yet know who he was?

 

['Ailina]

It would be interesting to know as well what state the remains found were in? Police probably know whether the circulated photos were taken at the pier on discovery or before the torso was found. I wouldn't put it past police to play a cat & mouse game with whoever sent the remains to the lake. It could have been a hidden message to AS to let him know they knew he had photos posted, even if they didn't yet know who he was?

Given the other instances and contents of AS's FB photo posts, it makes all the sense in the world to me he'd circulate pier photos before the crime was ever reported. As a matter of fact, I'm beginning to think one of AS's prime motivations were driven by the payoff of posting these kinds of photos and playing mind games with his audience. Again, criminal psychology adapts and deepens.

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[photographer4]

Right? Was he at the pier / lake that night? Where WAS he that night? I can't help but wonder if he took his boat out a little ways off the shoreline and dropped the remains then took his boat to wherever he stored it (or beached it?) and then waited for the story to unfold in front of him? I wonder what his alibi is for the days leading to the grisly discovery and the day of. It wouldn't shock me at all if he was at the lake a lot waiting for the discovery to be made. To the original news reports, she was "discovered floating near the pier". The other reports indicated a dive team was there gathering additional evidence from the lake - what other evidence would that be (if any)? I wonder if they were thinking she'd been tied down or weighted down? I know that Leslie Mahaffy was found when the concrete blocks she was encased in were discovered and the one with her torso cracked open releasing its awful contents.

 

[Grey-St]

It would be interesting to know as well what state the remains found were in? Police probably know whether the circulated photos were taken at the pier on discovery or before the torso was found. I wouldn't put it past police to play a cat & mouse game with whoever sent the remains to the lake. It could have been a hidden message to AS to let him know they knew he had photos posted, even if they didn't yet know who he was?

Yes I fully agree. And I believe the statements made by police suggest they are trying to narrow in on where the photo's originated from.

“Police are aware that pictures of the torso have beencirculating on various social media platforms,” Const. George Tudos said Friday. “Investigators urge anyone with photographic evidence to contact them as soon as possible.”

Kind of suggests to me that they can't tell where the photo's were taken, or they don't look to be taken at the pier.

“Police also urge people to refrain from posting such photographs on social media as this may interfere with the successful investigation of this homicide,” he added.

Kind of suggests to me that they want to stop the continuation of circulation, so they can narrow it down more easily to the original poster. The more it circulates, the more further away they get, they more folks they have to question.

I'm getting the impression that they photo's weren't taken at the pier, or at least not on the day of discovery. The police would likely sum that up as being taken by a bystander, and not really worth investigating and asking for assistance from the public.

 

['Ailina]

Yes I fully agree. And I believe the statements made by police suggest they are trying to narrow in on where the photo's originated from.

Kind of suggests to me that they can't tell where the photo's were taken, or they don't look to be taken at the pier.

Kind of suggests to me that they want to stop the continuation of circulation, so they can narrow it down more easily to the original poster. The more it circulates, the more further away they get, they more folks they have to question.

I'm getting the impression that they photo's weren't taken at the pier, or at least not on the day or discovery. The police would likely sum that up as being taken by a bystander, and not really worth investigating and asking for assistance from the public.

Or LE already knows and just wants to protect the investigation for a solid conviction, as well as maintain Rori's dignity.

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[photographer4]

I'm remembering back to when Cameron Bailie was found in the same lake, not far from where Rori's torso was found. I can tell you there was a crowd of bystanders at the lake that day and it was all over social media within minutes - probably because the lady who spotted him floating started screaming. I know some of his family members were at the lake when he came out of the water and there were photos of police bringing the body out of the lake on the FB group for CB.

It wouldn't shock me if people gathered and took photos while waiting for police to arrive and if those were circulated - but I somehow don't recall police asking people to stop circulating those photos. If I'm not mistaken, they're probably still available online. I think even the media had photos of his remains coming out. But I haven't yet been able to find any photos from the night they found Rori's remains (in the news media). The earliest photo I came across was from around 5:30am the following morning. I'm doubtful the photos of the torso were from the pier.

Just my observations and thoughts....

 

[matou]

Adam Strong went "magnet fishing" as per his fb. He posted on September 14th about it and posted a bobby pin. I don't think the pin belongs to Rori. He does place himself somewhere where people use a metal detector or magnet, so likely the beach. I wonder if he went to the beach with his magnet thingy to pick up any potential evidence he left behind?

 

[Grey-St]

Or LE already knows and just wants to protect the investigation for a solid conviction, as well as maintain Rori's dignity.

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Yes of course it's also about maintaining Rori's dignity, it's unfathomable that a photo was circulating of her remains. However, if that was the only reason, the police would state it as so, or the family would. The fact they were asking for assistance from the public, and were investigating this aspect, really suggests that they believe the photo's were taken by/posted by someone involved with the murder.

 

[Grey-St]

I'm remembering back to when Cameron Bailie was found in the same lake, not far from where Rori's torso was found. I can tell you there was a crowd of bystanders at the lake that day and it was all over social media within minutes - probably because the lady who spotted him floating started screaming. I know some of his family members were at the lake when he came out of the water and there were photos of police bringing the body out of the lake on the FB group for CB.

It wouldn't shock me if people gathered and took photos while waiting for police to arrive and if those were circulated - but I somehow don't recall police asking people to stop circulating those photos. If I'm not mistaken, they're probably still available online. I think even the media had photos of his remains coming out. But I haven't yet been able to find any photos from the night they found Rori's remains (in the news media). The earliest photo I came across was from around 5:30am the following morning. I'm doubtful the photos of the torso were from the pier.

Just my observations and thoughts....

Yeah, I'm with you on this. I think if it was just bystander photos, it would be similar to the CB situation. The fact that in Rori's case, police made these statements, were investigating this aspect, and asking for assistance, suggests there's much more to it.

 

['Ailina]

Adam Strong went "magnet fishing" as per his fb. He posted on September 14th about it and posted a bobby pin. I don't think the pin belongs to Rori. He does place himself somewhere where people use a metal detector or magnet, so likely the beach. I wonder if he went to the beach with his magnet thingy to pick up any potential evidence he left behind?

You know, when I saw the bobby pin photo, my gut turned. Couldn't put my finger on why at the time because I hadn't recognized a pattern yet -- but now, I strongly believe that every single photo he took and shared is gravely significant -- no pun intended. I believe he framed every photo in the violence of his crime, and it served as a form of sick entertainment for him. Putting his crime on public display and laughing at his oblivious audience. Kind of like a cook spitting in an oblivious customer's food before giving it to them and laughing while they eat it.

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[MrsThreadgoode]

Has anyone on this board actually seen the torso photos to which the police referred? If so, what would your estimate be as far as: were they taken in daylight hours, or close to dark hours?

Upthread another WSer mentioned that it was quite dark at the time the police arrived. So I am wondering if the torso photos were taken in daylight hours or in close to dark hours. That might give a clue as to the timing that the photos were taken, and from that discovery the police might be able to figure out which date they were taken and perhaps by whom they were taken. I wonder how many people were at the lake observing while the police were removing the torso from the water?


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[dyannaON]

I've loosely been following this case but I will admit I've missed a few pages of posts.
Why is everyone thinking he is a potential serial killer? Tia. Tonight I promise to read all posts. [emoji6]


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[matou]

I've loosely been following this case but I will admit I've missed a few pages of posts.
Why is everyone thinking he is a potential serial killer? Tia. Tonight I promise to read all posts. [emoji6]


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I'm not sure he is a serial killer. I think people are freaked out by his hanging chain apparatus and meat/roast photos and videos. There have been a few people missing and or found dead in Oshawa so people are edgy for a reason. This guy was following a pedo-hunter and this may be a defense mechanism or an attempt to seem moral to himself or his friends.

I have to wonder why he was attempting to get rid of evidence via the drain, IF true. Why did he keep parts of her? Why not get rid of all of her? Why wait 4 months to do this? Was he planning to return to the lake with the rest of her body but then her torso was found?