CANADA Canada - Samuel Lottery, 17, London, Ont, 19 Jan 1996

[newone]

After a hot bath and a cup of tea, thought about this strange case again and wondered, who left congregation in the months following his death and/or neighbourhood?

 

[whiterhino]

Just my two cents worth of thoughts for the day.

If his death was caused by ''accident''.....perhaps the river was most expedient way of dealing with it.

The letters as pointed out above first arrived 3 weeks after he went missing and perhaps the writer was hopeful that his body was recoverable.

Perhaps the writer was covering for someone else. (Parent ??) just my SWAG and MOO and two cents worth.

I can see your vision re- an "accident" & subsequent treatment of the remains/body as if done in haste. Then, letters to compensate for guilt & remorse.

When you searched obituaries did you use the year 1996 or 2000? When I searched previously I used the year 1996 but now realize Samuel wasn't laid to rest until 2000. I haven't gone back to search using that year. There may be nothing considering no one really knows when Samuel died & he was the victim of a homicide.

Re- church members/church info:
Pillar Of Fire was listed at 27 Gunn Street #519-858-8700 according to an old phonebook I have from 2011/2012 (expires Nov 2012). FBH Church Of God is listed at 156 Wellington Road according to another phonebook I have for 2014/2015 (exp. Nov. 2015). However, 156 Wellington "Wellington United Church" was sold on May 2012. So between May 2012 & November 2014 is when POF/FBH moved from Gunn Street to Wellington. ???

Also, if you google "The Atonement Fire Baptised Holiness Church Of God" there is a donation . ca site that lists FBH 27 Gunn with a list of the directors/trustees/president/secretary. I don't want to get in trouble so I won't link it but I also have not searched the names yet. There are 5 people listed.

Re- Samuels' parents:
I didn't want to look into the parents private information but looked in the same old phonebook from 2011/2012 & there was only 1 listing for Lottery in the Whiteoaks area. The first initial matches the name given for Samuels' father (from a Free Press article). Coincidence? There is also no listing for anyone named Lottery in the 2014/2015 phonebook. So it seems no relatives listed in the Yellow Pages. Always possible they are now unlisted & still in London or could have left or separated?

 

[whiterhino]

Here is where it starts getting very confusing & possibly redunant & my head starts to hurt...

In that phonebook from 2011/2012 is a listing for Pillar Of Fire 27 Gunn St # 519-858-8700. In the restaurant section of that phonebook is a listing for Tenenbaums at 685 Richmond with the same # as POF O _ o ?!

When you search Tenenbaums: listed/mapped at 685 Richmond & *27 Gunn St* & search results show "Tenenbaums Churches In London"(www. londoncommunitynews. com.) As an aside, when you search 685 Richmond it is also listed as a restaurant called HeyDayz.

When you search 519-858-8700: listed as POF Church 27 Gunn St & as Tenenbaums & also Thames Valley Childrens Center connected to a "family group counsel for families & children dealing with a 'difficult beginning' to childs life". Only exception with this listing for 519-858-8700 is a four digit extension.

Question: What was located at 685 Richmond in 1996? Could that be where Samuel worked/knew a friend/church member/parents place of work/stop on the way home???

More weird "church research/ cross referencing":

In the 2014/2015 phonebook I have, FBH Church Of God is listed at 156 Wellington #519-433-4400. When you search "519-433-4400" there is another listing for FBH 27 Gunn as well as religious counselling (canpages .ca)

When you search 27 Gunn you get Pillar Of Fire, FBH Church Of God & Tenenbaums. There are 3 phone numbers associated with 27 Gunn.

#519-858-8700: 27 Gunn "Pillar Of Fire" & "Tenenbaums" & Thames Valley Childrens Center (?)
#519-433-4400:27 Gunn St "Pillar Of Fire" & "FBH Church Of God" & "THE ATONEMENT FBH Church Of God" & 156 Wellington & religious counsel.
#519-645-0746: 27 Gunn St FBH Church & religious counsel & a real estate site for virtual tours with a "community page" (londonsource .com)

Lastly I looked into "fillicide". Apparently the term for when a parent kills their child? I was wondering about "adolescent fillicide" where a parent kills their own teenager? How common is this? One study I found basically summarized that most infants/babies are killed by the mother & that most older children are killed by the father. I couldn't find anything specific to teens or teenage boys or parents killing teenage sons. There must be some examples out there. Other than the girl killed by her parents who were found to be terrorists. Or the so-called mercy killings of other teenage girls.

Apologize for the length of the post & the confusing, repetitive points. Might make for some interesting Sunday reading?!

 

[dotr]

Maybe Sam was witness to something, or victim of mistaken identity, or accidentally killed in a gang battle?
2014


http://www.lfpress.com/2014/01/23/n...ondon-police-launched-crackdown-two-years-ago

“These guys have loaded handguns to shoot people — there’s no other reason,” he said. “Why does someone have a machete in London? They are not cutting down crops, they are not trying to fight their way through a jungle.”
>snip
LONDON GANGS

Known: White Oaks Crew, EOA (East of Adelaide), Kipps Lane Crew, Kurdish Pride, BSG (Black Shirt Gang), H-Block, First Division, Ontario Wide Crew, Juggalos, Westmount Crew."

 

[dotr]

2012
rbbm
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/01/12...-in-london-ont

"LONDON, ONT. - As the news filtered out -- a series of suspicious fires at shops, parlours and clubs connected to biker gangs, along with a shooting outside a suspected Hells Angels clubhouse -- it seemed logical to conclude that London had unwittingly found itself in the middle of a biker war.

That seemed upsetting, but understandable. After all, we've seen this kind of stuff before. It seemed familiar and, in some strangely perverse fashion, almost reassuring.

But then London police Chief Brad Duncan revealed police believed the violence was the work of street gangs.

Street gangs? Taking on the Hells Angels? That's crazy, right?

Yes, it is. And that, as one expert warns, is precisely the problem.

"It is audacious," says Irvin Waller. "But street gangs tend to be audacious."


>snip
rbbm.

"Youth gangs are not good news because they end up shooting each other, and other people get hurt," he says. "And there's no doubt there's a lot more violence associated with gang activity in Canada now than there was 15 years ago... Dramatically more."

Waller says street gangs and handguns go hand-in-hand."

 

[newone]

This is a real headscratcher.....I had run into the Tennebaum's when I was looking at Google maps.

current 411.ca has no listing for the business ((restaurant)) at all

 

[newone]

Here is where it starts getting very confusing & possibly redunant & my head starts to hurt...

In that phonebook from 2011/2012 is a listing for Pillar Of Fire 27 Gunn St # 519-858-8700. In the restaurant section of that phonebook is a listing for Tenenbaums at 685 Richmond with the same # as POF O _ o ?!

When you search Tenenbaums: listed/mapped at 685 Richmond & *27 Gunn St* & search results show "Tenenbaums Churches In London"(www. londoncommunitynews. com.) As an aside, when you search 685 Richmond it is also listed as a restaurant called HeyDayz.

When you search 519-858-8700: listed as POF Church 27 Gunn St & as Tenenbaums & also Thames Valley Childrens Center connected to a "family group counsel for families & children dealing with a 'difficult beginning' to childs life". Only exception with this listing for 519-858-8700 is a four digit extension.

Question: What was located at 685 Richmond in 1996? Could that be where Samuel worked/knew a friend/church member/parents place of work/stop on the way home???

More weird "church research/ cross referencing":

In the 2014/2015 phonebook I have, FBH Church Of God is listed at 156 Wellington #519-433-4400. When you search "519-433-4400" there is another listing for FBH 27 Gunn as well as religious counselling (canpages .ca)

When you search 27 Gunn you get Pillar Of Fire, FBH Church Of God & Tenenbaums. There are 3 phone numbers associated with 27 Gunn.

#519-858-8700: 27 Gunn "Pillar Of Fire" & "Tenenbaums" & Thames Valley Childrens Center (?)
#519-433-4400:27 Gunn St "Pillar Of Fire" & "FBH Church Of God" & "THE ATONEMENT FBH Church Of God" & 156 Wellington & religious counsel.
#519-645-0746: 27 Gunn St FBH Church & religious counsel & a real estate site for virtual tours with a "community page" (londonsource .com)

Lastly I looked into "fillicide". Apparently the term for when a parent kills their child? I was wondering about "adolescent fillicide" where a parent kills their own teenager? How common is this? One study I found basically summarized that most infants/babies are killed by the mother & that most older children are killed by the father. I couldn't find anything specific to teens or teenage boys or parents killing teenage sons. There must be some examples out there. Other than the girl killed by her parents who were found to be terrorists. Or the so-called mercy killings of other teenage girls.

Apologize for the length of the post & the confusing, repetitive points. Might make for some interesting Sunday reading?!

bbm: interesting.....

you've been busy! I think you have hit the tip of the iceberg somehow.

 

[whiterhino]

@dotr I completely forgot about the "crews" in London! I mean it had crossed my mind but I failed to mention it or had sort of dismissed it. In the last 5 years I'd def agree that the EOA & WOC gangs have gotten worse. It's mostly petty stuff between crews, kids getting beat up, ripped off etc. I lived in EOA (East Of Adelaide) for a period & it wasn't really that violent tbh. Dangerous bc of drug activity & prostitution but nothing like Toronto gangs. The danger of these gangs is that it's kids who watched Scarface too many times. They think they're tough with something to prove. The "real" gangs like Hells Angels don't mess around like cowboys in the Wild West. They are much more organized & don't go shooting each other in public. They organize their "hits". It is totally possible that Samuel was being "recruited" or pressured or was associated with ppl from WOC.

Apologies to TMan bc he had raised the idea of gangs earlier but I just didn't see it that way. The letters are not the kind of thing gang members do imho. Unless maybe it is someone who knew but wasn't part of the crew (someones girlfriend??)

@newone I cannot lie, when I found all that info I literally shouted "yes!". Headscratcher is an understatement. I needed a drink after untangling that mess. I don't know if it's even significant but my spidey senses were certainly going off. Is this what they call sleuthing?

685 Richmond is not too far from the church on Gunn St. Most of the scenarios I've imagined involve Samuel being placed in the river from the east side. The river runs behind Gunn St church but is probably very thick with brush. On one hand ideal for hiding something but not ideal in terms of ease of execution (if that makes sense?). However I could see a church member struggling down the embankment, see across the river & decide to pack up & relocate. Can also envision Samuel hanging out at whatever 685 Richmond was & then heading to the river via Ann St (dead end off Richmond) or Blackfriars/Gibbons Park/church etc.

When you search the name of the pastor at Pillar Of Fire, there's a link to FBH Church that has branches all across America and Jamaica . Is this a possible explanation as to why the Lottery family chose to worship there? Free Press stated that Samuel enjoyed travelling to Jamaica with his family. Yet another coincidence?

 

[whiterhino]

Ooook... Google search "Tabernacle of God Worship Ministry" & go to the donate2 .ca site & scroll down to view the names on that list!!! Talk about coincidences... I'm kinda creeped out rn bc that address matches the one in the 2011/2012 phonebook. Wth is going on?!

 

[newone]

@dotr I completely forgot about the "crews" in London! I mean it had crossed my mind but I failed to mention it or had sort of dismissed it. In the last 5 years I'd def agree that the EOA & WOC gangs have gotten worse. It's mostly petty stuff between crews, kids getting beat up, ripped off etc. I lived in EOA (East Of Adelaide) for a period & it wasn't really that violent tbh. Dangerous bc of drug activity & prostitution but nothing like Toronto gangs. The danger of these gangs is that it's kids who watched Scarface too many times. They think they're tough with something to prove. The "real" gangs like Hells Angels don't mess around like cowboys in the Wild West. They are much more organized & don't go shooting each other in public. They organize their "hits". It is totally possible that Samuel was being "recruited" or pressured or was associated with ppl from WOC.

Apologies to TMan bc he had raised the idea of gangs earlier but I just didn't see it that way. The letters are not the kind of thing gang members do imho. Unless maybe it is someone who knew but wasn't part of the crew (someones girlfriend??)

@newone I cannot lie, when I found all that info I literally shouted "yes!". Headscratcher is an understatement. I needed a drink after untangling that mess. I don't know if it's even significant but my spidey senses were certainly going off. Is this what they call sleuthing?

685 Richmond is not too far from the church on Gunn St. Most of the scenarios I've imagined involve Samuel being placed in the river from the east side. The river runs behind Gunn St church but is probably very thick with brush. On one hand ideal for hiding something but not ideal in terms of ease of execution (if that makes sense?). However I could see a church member struggling down the embankment, see across the river & decide to pack up & relocate. Can also envision Samuel hanging out at whatever 685 Richmond was & then heading to the river via Ann St (dead end off Richmond) or Blackfriars/Gibbons Park/church etc.

When you search the name of the pastor at Pillar Of Fire, there's a link to FBH Church that has branches all across America and Jamaica . Is this a possible explanation as to why the Lottery family chose to worship there? Free Press stated that Samuel enjoyed travelling to Jamaica with his family. Yet another coincidence?

bbm: short answer yes....it is exciting

there is quite a large branch of the Church in Jamaica from what I noticed earlier....and to a newcomer to the community the Church probably felt a bit like home away from home....

the rear of the properties on Gunn do ''back directly'' onto the river, on a warmish winter day, it might be tempting to see the river and accidents could happen too

 

[newone]

Ooook... Google search "Tabernacle of God Worship Ministry" & go to the donate2 .ca site & scroll down to view the names on that list!!! Talk about coincidences... I'm kinda creeped out rn bc that address matches the one in the 2011/2012 phonebook. Wth is going on?!

I must be ''all thumbs'' have not found it.........would need a link

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I must be ''all thumbs'' have not found it.........would need a link

Found it. Samuel's father is named Errol?

http://donate2charities.ca/en/Tabernacle.of.God.Worship.Ministry._.0_846739514RR0001

 

[whiterhino]

Found it. Samuel's father is named Errol?

http://donate2charities.ca/en/Tabernacle.of.God.Worship.Ministry._.0_846739514RR0001

You win creepy bingo! Yeah, I wasn't sure if I should post the parents names etc The mother & fathers names are in a Free Press article. I know it's MSM but wasn't sure regarding respect for the parents & all that. (mothers name is Tathlin)

Sorry for not linking all this stuff! Wasn't sure if some links are allowed. Plus technical difficulties.

I'm so tempted to go to those churches/the river & call those numbers but that is obv not a good idea. What is going on with all that church stuff though? Maybe it's not related but it's def strange.

 

[newone]

You win creepy bingo! Yeah, I wasn't sure if I should post the parents names etc The mother & fathers names are in a Free Press article. I know it's MSM but wasn't sure regarding respect for the parents & all that. (mothers name is Tathlin)

Sorry for not linking all this stuff! Wasn't sure if some links are allowed. Plus technical difficulties.

I'm so tempted to go to those churches/the river & call those numbers but that is obv not a good idea. What is going on with all that church stuff though? Maybe it's not related but it's def strange.

Churches usually have lay people perform board tasks ((governance rules I had posted up thread)) due to CRA requirements etc. It's also part of stewardship usually so that the pastor can focus on his congregation. I am glad you found it though as it highlights the involvement of the family with the congregation...it must have been very alarming to have a letter delivered to the Church after SL's disappearance.

Thanks for the link

 

[newone]

"Ongoing programs : Community worship service mid-week. ..."

what day and was SL in attendance?? - SL didn't return home Thursday.....


that was from the charity donation information website -- good one as it allows potential donors to make informed choices about whom they support

 

[whiterhino]

Churches usually have lay people perform board tasks ((governance rules I had posted up thread)) due to CRA requirements etc. It's also part of stewardship usually so that the pastor can focus on his congregation. I am glad you found it though as it highlights the involvement of the family with the congregation...it must have been very alarming to have a letter delivered to the Church after SL's disappearance.

Thanks for the link

The weird thing is that Pillar Of Fire/FBH/The Atonement FBH & Tabernacle are 2 different churches/charities. At least that's what it looks like to me. (different BN# & registration dates)

The donate2 listing for 27 Gunn Street doesn't list Errol Lottery at all & none of the names cross over. I have yet to google 1015 Jalna Blvd & the phone #.

 

[newone]

The weird thing is that Pillar Of Fire/FBH/The Atonement FBH & Tabernacle are 2 different churches/charities. At least that's what it looks like to me. (different BN# & registration dates)

The donate2 listing for 27 Gunn Street doesn't list Errol Lottery at all & none of the names cross over. I have yet to google 1015 Jalna Blvd & the phone #.

Perhaps they have an ''affiliation'' -- or share same board members. Many not for profit organizations have a heck of a time finding volunteers willing to serve on boards and/or they could have friends or family members who attend that other church as well. MOO

 

[PrimeSuspect]

You win creepy bingo! Yeah, I wasn't sure if I should post the parents names etc The mother & fathers names are in a Free Press article. I know it's MSM but wasn't sure regarding respect for the parents & all that. (mothers name is Tathlin)

Sorry for not linking all this stuff! Wasn't sure if some links are allowed. Plus technical difficulties.

I'm so tempted to go to those churches/the river & call those numbers but that is obv not a good idea. What is going on with all that church stuff though? Maybe it's not related but it's def strange.

Sorry. :blushing: I've been playing catch up and I was so intrigued about the info at link, I started digging, was little bit harder to get to but eventually found it so thought better post it.
I can't find link to Sam's dad, there is an msm article posted at another site but no link, unfortunately. :dunno:

I'm following this thread with great interest, it's a shame that Samuel lost his life, and so mysteriously too. Was it an accident caused by someone else, a murder or misadventure? The letters have me baffled, if only the contents were available to view, could crack the case. JMO

 

[whiterhino]

Maybe I'm just confused & hung up on the confusion so please help me make sense of this...

The 2011/2012 residential section of the phonebook lists 1 E Lottery at 1015 Jalna Blvd (Whiteoaks area that Samuel lived in). The phone #519-858-8700. That is the # that ties back to Tannenbaums which also ties to Gunn Street. How is 1015 Jalna both a church as well as a residential listing? Bc the donate2 site lists the # for 1015 Jalna as #519-694-5858. The registration date & BN # are dated November 2010 so prior to the phonebook listing & there is no listing in the yellow pages for Tabernacle. Not in 2011/2012 or now. Curious.

It would seem to me that if Samuels father helped in the offices at Gunn Street then not only was the letter sent to their place of worship but the "workplace" of one of his parents.

 

[newone]

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2009/10/27/11539966.html

"The suggestion in both notes that the river be searched clearly came from someone who knew what happened to Lottery.''

"Lottery's mother, Tathlin, had little to add to the case that so consumed her after her son failed to return to the family's White Oaks home Jan. 18, 1996.

"I really don't have anything to say at this time," she said.''