Found Deceased Canada - Shannon Burgess, 25, Calgary, 26 Nov 2014 - #3 *Arrest*

[Sillybilly]

I have read up on this case, and the big piece that is missing, to me, is JB's statement about the circumstance of that last sighting, and his justification why he didn't notice/report her disappearance until her relatives contacted him over 4 days later.

<>rsbm

And so noticeably absent from any 'missing' info is a description of what she was last seen wearing !! I guess it could be that LE may not wish to publish a clothing description in the event she went missing a day or so AFTER JB last saw her and she may have changed outfits in that time period.

 

[tarabull]

Yeah I know tara ... but she separates the two as if they are two different things. Otherwise, why not say "I will forever miss Alliance, the man who may or may not have ......"?

Bearing in mind it is the last thing she is known to have said on social media, IMO that first part still has a sting to it that doesn't seem characteristic of her regular 'funzie' writing style, and with reference to "whoring around" certainly smacks of something that couples might be at great odds over.

bbm above...
Cause his name isn't Alliance...??? I do not know SillyBilly you got me :dunno: 'He' aka the man --- is a part of Alliance, if not for Alliance, perhaps their paths wouldn't have crossed...

ETA: it's ALL a real source of A LOT of head scratching...fo' shizzle. just the way a perp likes it :moo: :cow:

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

bbm above...
Cause his name isn't Alliance...??? I do not know SillyBilly you got me :dunno:

She missed the man who may or may not have knocked her up. Given that childbirth is allowed in the role play, and that it seems the role play season was at an end, she may be referencing a particular storyline with a certain character that occurred while playing within the Alliance group.

"Forever miss"... unfortunate timing or a hint she knew she was leaving?

 

[tarabull]

She missed the man who may or may not have knocked her up. Given that childbirth is allowed in the role play, and that it seems the role play season was at an end, she may be referencing a particular storyline with a certain character that occurred while playing within the Alliance group.

"Forever miss"... unfortunate timing or a hint she knew she was leaving?

Or it's a post made (not by Shannon) to look like she was dropping hints that she was leaving...???

which witch...??? :websleuther:

:thinking:

ETA: when was the last time she posted about larping on her SM??? what does occam's razor say in this case??? hmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[deugirtni]

I'm not sure.. something I read made me think that she had been potentially spotted/sighted, but I suppose it could mean anything. I'll look back tomorrow to see what it was that made me think sighted.

Was it reported as sightings? She "may be" in those areas based on witness accounts of previous conversations, or from information gleaned from the online accounts.

 

[deugirtni]

I'm sure they would remember her also.. if only for her attractiveness and looking like she didn't belong. I would surely hope that LE checked that possibility out.. but I guess we don't know anything really.

I agree sadly. It's very very hard to *completely* disappear willingly unless you are a well-crafted, skilled con/criminal IMO. For an average, attractive girl it's hard to become a total ghost. The only way to fall off the radar where no one has physically seen you is to maybe possibly become homeless and live on the streets.

It's a sad thought to think - but unfortunately it seems most people walk on by those living on the street and consider them 'background' and faceless. So she might fall through the cracks there with being 'seen'. It's terrible how homeless folks are lumped into a 'generic' type social label and existence as if they don't exist. Even if Shannon was living on the streets, if her family or LE went postering and asking the homeless community if they've seen her, I believe it's a small enough world and most street people know each other and who's who - that they would've recognized her as a 'new person' in the community and would remember her. Again, just thinking aloud.

 

[deugirtni]

As I was reading your post.. it occurred to me.. I recall reading a FB entry from a friend to the sister in law, that someone in Edmonton involved in the acting community had seen her, and had reported his/her last sighting of her to LE.. all of this stuff, JB's, and everyone else's account of when they last saw her and/or what the circumstances were at that time, have been kept quiet. .. it never occurred to me before, silly me, but in keeping all of that to themselves (LE), then if they happen to find something out that contradicts what someone else may have already said, it could help catch someone in a potential lie.. so I wonder if LE like to keep that kind of info private so that it doesn't put date/time thoughts into people's heads, so they can have a more perhaps accurate information gathering from those who last saw her, and from there, they can make a timeline. I also wondered the same thing earlier about what she was wearing, etc.. I'm sure they didn't know for sure? (of course, depending on the particulars of JB's last sight of her and if it was her that left or him that left). I was thinking they may not want to publish what they thought she was wearing in case it might deter possible sighting reports in the event the attire didn't match? ie someone thought they saw her, but they didn't report it because she had purple pants on instead of the green ones that she was reported to have been wearing?

Do you have a link for where it was stated that the Vancouver/Toronto connection was based on a lead?

The press releases issued in Vancouver and Toronto were based on a lead - I assume someone told LE/family that she had talked about moving to those places.

I have read up on this case, and the big piece that is missing, to me, is JB's statement about the circumstance of that last sighting, and his justification why he didn't notice/report her disappearance until her relatives contacted him over 4 days later.

He had to give a reason that made sense, like, 'we had a fight and I left to live with my other girlfriend.' or 'she told me she'd found someone on OKCupid and was going to their place'.

Given the way the media/press conference was handled, whatever explanation he gave to the family was accepted at face value and yet has been kept quite private. We don't know what the explanation is and without that, everything is speculation.

 

[deugirtni]

I don't think they are 2 different things.

"I will forever miss the man"

And.. the man and that play-acting venture that she speaks of, which she found fun.. is all part of the Alliance stuff... and.. the man to whom she refers... is not into women.. and.. that was likely well known amongst all.. because it doesn't seem to be private in any way.. and I'm sure JB would also have known that. Or am I missing what your question really is?

Yeah I know tara ... but she separates the two as if they are two different things. Otherwise, why not say "I will forever miss Alliance, the man who may or may not have ......"?

Bearing in mind it is the last thing she is known to have said on social media, IMO that first part still has a sting to it that doesn't seem characteristic of her regular 'funzie' writing style, and with reference to "whoring around" certainly smacks of something that couples might be at great odds over.

 

[deugirtni]

We are rehashing a lot of old stuff.. which is good, because with it perhaps will come new perspectives.. and there isn't much NEW, is there?? But anyway, I had the impression that she hadn't been involved with the Alliance group for some time.. but I can't remember right now why I had that impression. At the time when this was all being discussed.. I did do a lot of reading, everywhere..

Or it's a post made (not by Shannon) to look like she was dropping hints that she was leaving...???

which witch...??? :websleuther:

:thinking:

ETA: when was the last time she posted about larping on her SM??? what does occam's razor say in this case??? hmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[Sillybilly]

Don't know the significance but FWIW, the Toronto PD news release is no longer accessible through their tweet:

https://twitter.com/torontopolice/status/543110469012451329

The VPD one still is:

https://twitter.com/vancouverpd/status/543118484407058432

http://mediareleases.vpd.ca/2014/12/11/vpd-assist-with-calgary-police-missing-person-investigation/

Investigators have received information indicating she may be in either Vancouver or Toronto, Ontario.

What globalnews reported was:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1725930/t...police-join-search-for-missing-calgary-woman/

Earlier this week, police services in Toronto and Vancouver issued releases indicating investigators had received information she may have been spotted in either of the two cities.

^^ which may have been reporter interpretation of "may be in" because I don't believe either PD worded it that she may have been spotted.

 

[Sillybilly]

Also, the fact that LE does not suspect foul play (and this is consistent throughout all articles) ...

Reporters can summarize their interpretation, but we should rely moreso on a direct quote from LE in the following article.

from:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...-in-photos-found-in-fish-creek-park-1.2877844

&#8220;Although there are no indications of foul play, it is out of character for her to not be in touch with family and friends, and police are concerned for her welfare. Shannon frequently travels to Edmonton to visit friends and for work as a performance artist and standup comedian,&#8221; police said in a press release.

No indications (i.e. forensic evidence such as blood, signs of struggle, weapons found, etc) doesn't necessarily equate to absolutely no foul play.

 

[evafiore]

This lack of "last seen wearing..." brings me back to the idea that JB left first, not SB (just my opinion!)

The fact that LE does not suspect foul play (and this is consistent throughout all articles) leads me to believe that she had some part in her disappearance. I'm not saying she's okay. But as much as we'd like to believe that LE will release everything to the public, they simply haven't. No last seen wearing, etc., no clear description of the circumstances of her last being seen, no updated inventory of what was missing from the home. LE knows what their living status would have been---whether they were staying in the same home, or living according to the requirements of a separation for a divorce: in separate places. They know what's happened to the dog and what JB does for a living. They know about how SB got to/from Edmonton and what happened to her brakes (where/when/did she get them repaired?). They know who left the home first when JB last saw her---SB would have left in either case, but we don't know who left first. LE knows all or most of this, so they do know more than us. Based on what they know, they don't suspect foul play. If we were placing bets, I'd base it on LE's hand.

Of course a lot of what they "know" could be based on what JB's told them, and there is the possibility that they're withholding this information to preserve the integrity of a murder investigation (waiting for JB to slip up?), but as time passes and the family seems absolutely fine, with no appeals to the public, I'm doubting this.

And of course, this is just my opinion

 

[evafiore]

Reporters can summarize their interpretation, but we should rely moreso on a direct quote from LE in the following article.

from:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...-in-photos-found-in-fish-creek-park-1.2877844



No indications (i.e. forensic evidence such as blood, signs of struggle, weapons found, etc) doesn't necessarily equate to absolutely no foul play.

True that. I thought the officer in the press conference phrased it in multiple ways, but they might all have that basic meaning.

When I initially heard about this case, it was statements like "Burgess is thought to be in the Calgary or Edmonton area" that gave me the impression that she is thought to be okay.
...
Just watched the video...the article directly quotes it and I don't believe the officer addresses it again. Are indications of foul play strictly signs such as blood, struggle, etc., or can it also depend on an unreliable witness statement?

 

[evafiore]

On a side note, found this. Interesting general read. For SB's case, there is no evidence of foul play (which is really vague), but they have not stated that it has been ruled out (as far as I can see).

 

[evafiore]

Don't know the significance but FWIW, the Toronto PD news release is no longer accessible through their tweet:

https://twitter.com/torontopolice/status/543110469012451329

It looks like they only list releases from within the last month: http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/newsreleases/

 

[otto]

The press releases issued in Vancouver and Toronto were based on a lead - I assume someone told LE/family that she had talked about moving to those places.

I have read up on this case, and the big piece that is missing, to me, is JB's statement about the circumstance of that last sighting, and his justification why he didn't notice/report her disappearance until her relatives contacted him over 4 days later.

He had to give a reason that made sense, like, 'we had a fight and I left to live with my other girlfriend.' or 'she told me she'd found someone on OKCupid and was going to their place'.

Given the way the media/press conference was handled, whatever explanation he gave to the family was accepted at face value and yet has been kept quite private. We don't know what the explanation is and without that, everything is speculation.

The police most definitely asked the husband why he didn't find it unusual that she was away for 5 days and her cell phone and car were at home, I doubt that his explanation was accepted at face value. Police would have asked if Shannon normally vanished without her phone and car for five days, and from what we heard at the press conference, the answer was no. There's nothing the husband could say that would make her disappearance sound normal ... meaning there's nothing he could say that would excuse the fact that he did not notify anyone about her disappearance, or that he waited until he got home from work to respond to her family's frantic calls.

 

[evafiore]

Does anyone else find it bizarre that JB has not deactivated his OkC profile? Why would he choose to keep it active? Is it an effort to show that he has nothing to hide, or is he really still on the market after his wife has disappeared (which, to me, exceeds all definitions of poor taste)? Does he think she's chosen to disappear? Is it part of the investigation?

 

[tarabull]

We are rehashing a lot of old stuff.. which is good, because with it perhaps will come new perspectives.. and there isn't much NEW, is there?? But anyway, I had the impression that she hadn't been involved with the Alliance group for some time.. but I can't remember right now why I had that impression. At the time when this was all being discussed.. I did do a lot of reading, everywhere..

Sorry for jumping in & for rehashing...you said there isn't much new...let's simplify, there isn't much.

Nothing from nothing = nothing.

 

[Satchie]

The police most definitely asked the husband why he didn't find it unusual that she was away for 5 days and her cell phone and car were at home, I doubt that his explanation was accepted at face value. Police would have asked if Shannon normally vanished without her phone and car for five days, and from what we heard at the press conference, the answer was no. There's nothing the husband could say that would make her disappearance sound normal ... meaning there's nothing he could say that would excuse the fact that he did not notify anyone about her disappearance, or that he waited until he got home from work to respond to her family's frantic calls.

I understand what you're saying, but if LE were convinced it was a criminal case, wouldn't they have launched a criminal investigation and gathered evidence from the home and the car? I don't think it's possible for them to do that secretly, they have to get a warrant.

What I'm saying is that LE doesn't investigate every disappearance as a crime, but they will investigate if the family is convinced it was a crime. In this case, the family seems to have been convinced it was a voluntary disappearance. I don't believe LE could tell family members to follow a script at a news conference and pretend to believe she's still out there, when they were deeply suspicious that she's not.

In the case of Tim Bosma, within a couple of hours of his leaving his wife reported it to police and it was immediately treated as a criminal case. They didn't hold a press conference where she told him he didn't have to come home but at least let me know you're alright. The family was convinced it must have been a kidnapping, and the investigation followed that scenario.

In another case, a Calgary man went missing, he was known to be a hiker, so they put out the word about his car and it was found at a Banff trailhead. Because his friends reported he might have gone base-jumping, police didn't investigate any further, by, for example, searching his car for signs of blood, inventorying his home to figure out what he was last seen wearing. He has never been found, but they aren't treating it as a criminal case because the family is convinced he died in an accident.

So what I'm saying is, while to me this case seems suspicious, there must have been some (or at least, was some) solid reason for the family to believe it was voluntary disappearance, and LE have followed their lead. I don't know what those reasons are, and the family isn't telling.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Does anyone else find it bizarre that JB has not deactivated his OkC profile? Why would he choose to keep it active? Is it an effort to show that he has nothing to hide, or is he really still on the market after his wife has disappeared (which, to me, exceeds all definitions of poor taste)? Does he think she's chosen to disappear? Is it part of the investigation?

We have discussed this awhile back with some mixed opinions IIRC. I share the same thoughts as you pretty much. Call me sentimental, but I think it's a little in bad taste to leave it up...Even if she has disappeared willingly, it seems a bit crass to still want to be on the prowl when you don't know the well being or health of someone you said you love. Again, others might see it as not a big deal!