CANADA - shooter in RCMP vehicle and uniform, 23 killed - Portapique, NS *suspect dead*

[susiQ]

I don't think they had sufficient information to issue the alert until the morning after, once they'd spoken with the GF. Before that conversation, did they even know who the perpetrator was? And even if they'd known who they were looking for, they every reason to believe he was contained within the two perimeters they'd set up around the area - they hadn't caught him and as far as they were aware, no civilians had been allowed to leave. Obviously we know now that he'd escaped in his homemade cruiser, but at the time, that would have been inconceivable to the officers at the scene.

With this in mind, it's understandable why the alert would have been viewed as unnecessary at that point. This is purely speculation on my part, but with no other apparent reason for the gunshots to have halted, maybe they thought the perp had died in one of the structure fires? Maybe they thought the perp was one of the "several" victims in the area? They would have needed more time to investigate all the different crime scenes, but they had no reason to believe he was outside their grasp.

However, with all that said, once the info from the GF came that morning, everything changed. I personally feel it was very ill-advised and irresponsible to rely on Twitter alone rather than issue an emergency alert. The alert would absolutely have reached more people more quickly, and almost certainly would have saved several lives. I hope that many people around the world have learned from this horrible situation.

I disagree with not issuing the alert. They knew before midnight that they had a REALLY big problem. Multiple victims and fires blazing. It didn’t matter if they knew who it was, they just needed to send an alert so people would know there was a madman with a gun that was burning down houses.

 

[Vern]

I disagree with not issuing the alert. They knew before midnight that they had a REALLY big problem. Multiple victims and fires blazing. It didn’t matter if they knew who it was, they just needed to send an alert so people would know there was a madman with a gun that was burning down houses.

Agreed that's when an alert should have went out.

Perhaps there may have also been a thought that he may have suicided inside his residence which was ablaze … right beside the residence where the party was and the shooting started … Until she came out of hiding and told them differently.

I don't know. That's what investigations are for and there's one happening. Answers will come. I'm satisfied with that.

 

[Vern]

I'm not part of the NS massacre shooting but my husband died in bed from a heart attack and I woke up to the alarm going off and he was gone, the isolation is making this extremely difficult.

Kritafo, May your memories bring you some peace and comfort. I'm so sorry for your loss that, even during the best of times, is unimaginable. Sending a virtual hug your way.

 

[Vern]

The details of this crime when finally released to the public will be horrible to read or think about. Another different type of subject matter forum I lurk at, has relatives of some the RCMP involved that have been told of the true horror involved.......This man turned "monster" for real.....moo

Indeed they will be. It's horrific.

 

[katydid23]

I would bet many people saw many signs over the years and either chose to ignore them or avoided him altogether.

Usually, there's not much anyone can do, even if they think a friend or acquaintance might be simmering and ready to explode.

My friend's ex husband was a time bomb, waiting to explode. But the police couldn't, or maybe wouldn't do anything until he was caught doing something illegal.

He totally trashed her house one night, after they were separated. Smashed furniture, threw rotten food around, cut up all her pictures, wrote insulting things on the walls.

But his name was still on the mortgage and they were still married. Cops told her it wasn't against the law for him to 'mess up' his own house.

He did end up killing himself years later.

 

[Vern]

Usually, there's not much anyone can do, even if they think a friend or acquaintance might be simmering and ready to explode.

My friend's ex husband was a time bomb, waiting to explode. But the police couldn't, or maybe wouldn't do anything until he was caught doing something illegal.

He totally trashed her house one night, after they were separated. Smashed furniture, threw rotten food around, cut up all her pictures, wrote insulting things on the walls.

But his name was still on the mortgage and they were still married. Cops told her it wasn't against the law for him to 'mess up' his own house.

He did end up killing himself years later.

Just wow; reminds me of the non-fiction I read years ago, Life With Billy, a horrific tale of DV and death with police actually afraid to do anything about it … in rural Nova Scotia.

When the details on this incident come out, I fear they will be just as horrific. I wonder what the stats are for sprees/rampages that have their initial spark in a DV incident.

 

[deugirtni]

....Population of Nova Scotia by the way is ~ 100K. See the landmass it covers? BC and NS are not comparable. We and the US are not comparable so please stop trying to do so.

You nailed it. Population of NS ~ 100K. Mostly volunteer fire departments in the affected areas. An overwhelmed couple of people at the Provincial 911 call centre I'm sure.

Not to say NS is large, however the population has been understated by roughly 90%. Population is closer to ten times the quoted number, at just short of one million.

We should be able to take some criticism on how this rampage could have gone on for so long without warning the citizens in every way possible as soon as possible, imo. Hopefully the powers-that-be will have a good answer after this is looked into, or maybe we'll learn some new protocols from this. No sense in getting defensive about it. This is said to have been the worst mass murder in Canada's history, there are going to be questions asked.

How Many People Live in Nova Scotia? 965,382
https://worldpopulationreview.com/canadian-provinces/nova-scotia-population/

The gunman who went on a shooting rampage over the weekend in Nova Scotia killed at least 22 people, including an RCMP officer, in the worst mass murder in Canadian history.
Nova Scotia shootings leave 23 dead: What we know so far - Macleans.ca

 

[CSIDreamer]

Thank you all for the posts and concern expressed.

My family have made it through unscathed although not un-scared. Our unaccounted for was hiding in the woods for hours upon hours. He wasn't the only one out there hiding and were just terrified to come out. I can't say as I blame them. The McCulley's are good family friends and we are heart-broken for their loss of Lisa. Then, over in Wentworth we lost a retired military fire-fighter who my brother, also a military fire-fighter was friends with. We recognize most of the victims. We are just crushed as to how it could happen in the heart of such a peaceful place.

I've cried an awful lot of tears this week. My head is still aching. I just can't. I'm especially proud of two boys, 10 and 12, who braved that madness and managed to escape to another home to warn them and to hide with those children. I am thankful that ***-51 did not set fire to that house. Stories will come out of this once the anger has been addressed. So angry at the lack of 911 system being used. Just so angry at many things.

***-51 is what we are calling him. "Perpatrator of Shooting - Aged 51" or "Piece of S..., Aged-51" - take your pick. I go with the latter.

I'm happy you located your family member. And very sorry for your pain.

 

[JuneBug67]

Not to say NS is large, however the population has been understated by roughly 90%. Population is closer to ten times the quoted number, at just short of one million.

We should be able to take some criticism on how this rampage could have gone on for so long without warning the citizens in every way possible as soon as possible, imo. Hopefully the powers-that-be will have a good answer after this is looked into, or maybe we'll learn some new protocols from this. No sense in getting defensive about it. This is said to have been the worst mass murder in Canada's history, there are going to be questions asked.

How Many People Live in Nova Scotia? 965,382
https://worldpopulationreview.com/canadian-provinces/nova-scotia-population/

The gunman who went on a shooting rampage over the weekend in Nova Scotia killed at least 22 people, including an RCMP officer, in the worst mass murder in Canadian history.
Nova Scotia shootings leave 23 dead: What we know so far - Macleans.ca

I absolutely agree that the public has a vested interest in the performance of our law enforcement, and a role in holding them to account. But criticism should be reasonable, and take the full circumstances of the moment into account. I think as soon as they knew he had escaped the perimeter and was on the move an emergency alert should have been considered and initiated. Things were localized before that, he killed almost all the witnesses, and police needed time to understand what was happening to communicate anything meaningful.

It wasn’t until the RCMP’s third tweet just after 10 am On Sunday that public calls to have the emergency broadcast system used started in real time. Even in hindsight I think that’s about right. And it does take time up the chain of command to decide, compose, release etc. And there was just such a novel nightmare unfolding. It’s not hard for me to imagine there just wasn’t the available focus for anything not usual. Twitter was usual. Even today I’m not sure if criticism is appropriate, or just a profound shared regret.

 

[Inthedetails]

She wanted to leave, but Wortman had taken the back wheels off her car and thrown them in a ditch.

Snipped.

The guy was into punishment - against people who he deemed deserved it. Vindictive, cruel. He has to be in control and make sure you know he is in control.

Thank goodness he didn't have children.

jmo

 

[dar107]

Hi Everyone,

Just jumping in with both feet here. My heart is broken for our Country, the Beautiful Province of Nova Scotia and it's wonderful people, and mostly all the family and friends of the innocent lives taken. Canada stands with each and everyone of you.

It is all just so senseless. The average person can just never make sense of what goes on in the mind of someone like GW. Piecing together what we know, I feel he was the type of guy who would call to report a neighbour if their grass was not cut or something was not appealing to his eye. He took great care of his property from reports, and would call if the plows were not out soon enough etc. The type of man who wanted to "police" his neighbourhood. Perhaps his GF was at the neighbours and it pissed him off they were ignoring the rules of social distancing. Who knows what set him off that night but I do think he already had plans and something lit the spark that night. Maybe when he realized she had escaped he decided he was going to teach her a lesson and kill everyone who in the slightest way spoke out against him or pissed him off, no matter how small or ridiculous the matter was. Typical abusive behaviour, making it all her fault for involving anyone in their business. she made him, do it, etc. Or maybe he thought she was still confined in the house when he set fire to it, and knew he was done so went on the spree he had been planning for some time.

I have not seen this posted yet but its very eerie, a show with striking similarities aired just a few nights before...

TV show aired days before N.S. shooting rampage features eerie similarities to real-life event

 

[Inthedetails]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

To community members local to the area experiencing the shock and sadness of this situation, so very close to home, I send condolences - and hope that WS will be a place of support.

This isn't an easy situation no matter where we come from and I'm hopeful there is a way to process all this without causing more stress.

jmo

 

[dar107]

This is just a reminder, there is so much more love and good in the human race then there is evil and hate! At times like this that can be hard to remember. Evil gets amplified, but Love will always win.

Nova Scotia pilot draws a heart in the sky to pay tribute to families of mass shooting victims

 

[Bravo]

10:00 a.m. EST Presser from RCMP

Watch CTV News Atlantic | Local News Video | Top Headlines

 

[TrishLiv]

Who knows what set him off that night but I do think he already had plans and something lit the spark that night. Maybe when he realized she had escaped he decided he was going to teach her a lesson and kill everyone who in the slightest way spoke out against him or pissed him off, no matter how small or ridiculous the matter was. Typical abusive behaviour, making it all her fault for involving anyone in their business. she made him, do it, etc. Or maybe he thought she was still confined in the house when he set fire to it, and knew he was done so went on the spree he had been planning for some time.

I have not seen this posted yet but its very eerie, a show with striking similarities aired just a few nights before...

TV show aired days before N.S. shooting rampage features eerie similarities to real-life event[/QUOTE]

This reminds me of when a parent will kill the kids to get back at the other parent. Its a "you made me do this" kind of thing. And at the same time "I'll make you hurt worse then what I feel".

IMO He had plenty of opportunity to kill the GF but chose not to. Maybe he binds her because he wants to hurt her through killing others. Complete power over her. Thinking it will hurt her more to live with this pain and guilt.

I think she'll talk, once she's ready and able. She prob got a lot of years of DV/gaslighting to get off her chest.

 

[MistyWaters]

Premier asks Nova Scotians to withhold criticism of RCMP, help solve questions in gunman’s rampage

“Nova Scotia Premier Stephen McNeil is urging his mourning province to withhold their criticism of the RCMP and try to help investigators unravel questions around a gunman’s weekend rampage that claimed 22 victims.

The Premier acknowledged there is anger over the RCMP’s decision not to use the provincial emergency alert system during a 12-hour manhunt for the killer. But he asked people to be patient, and wait for answers.

“There’s a lot of people hurting in this province, there’s no question, and I get the desire why people want information, readily available, today,” he said, at a briefing on the province’s COVID-19 response.

But we need to allow this process to happen. In due time, everyone will know exactly why it wasn’t used. I think we need to allow this investigation to happen.”

The Premier also urged Nova Scotians to co-operate with RCMP investigators who are trying to piece together the gunman’s movements, and possible motivation. A new tip line was created specifically for the killings.

“We have families suffering, we have communities suffering, our entire province, frankly, is suffering through the violent tragedy that hit our province last weekend,” Mr. McNeil said. “If there is any Nova Scotian, anyone, who has any information that they think may be valuable, please call that tip line.”....”

 

[Alethea]

I think what’s leading to much of the criticism about the lack of an emergency alert was the local PD tweeted alerts starting before midnight, presumably hoping the media would report on it. So SOMEONE thought it was important enough to get the warning out! But likely not someone senior enough to make the call to send out an alert.

The problem is very few people are active Twitter users and even fewer set Twitter alerts. People who work in media or social media tend to forget this and assume everyone uses twitter like they do.

We live in a rural mountain town close to the Canadian border so this case breaks my heart more than usual.

 

[MistyWaters]

From the same link above and yes, it’s 100% true that anyone with in-depth knowledge of any particular rural area is aware of alternate backroad roads and trails, a means of avoiding highways. This may be how GW escaped the parameter established around the Portapique area.

“There remain many unanswered questions for investigators. It’s still unclear what route the gunman – a 51-year-old denturist – took during the shooting rampage that began Saturday night and ended Sunday before noon, and how he evaded police and whether he had help.

Halifax’s Kelly Lunn, who has a cottage near Portapique, N.S., where the killings began, arrived at the blocked-off access point to Portapique Beach Road on Thursday with his wife and two teens to deliver a cardboard carafe of Tim Hortons coffee and snacks to the RCMP officers there. He told police about the “honeycomb” of back country roads he believes the shooter took that lead from Portapique to Wentworth, where four more people were killed.

“I can drive between here and Wentworth without ever standing on a piece of pavement, so that guy obviously knew all that. He planned it,” said Mr. Lunn who has snowmobiled, hunted and four-wheeled on this network of dirt roads that connect through the interior of Colchester County.

“This is something that this guy planned a long time ago. So that’s pure evil.”....”

 

[BearCatSafari]

This was crazy rcmp should of sent out a alert. Most city’s have their own le now. The rcmp seem so outdated now . All these lives lost that didn’t need to be.

I agree an alarm should have been sent.

I respectfully disagree with the rest of your post. I'm not sure you understand how small and remote this place is. Please try to remember, this is a place with a population of about 100 people. It's not a city and has no local LE. This is not Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, etc.

And whether the RCMP seems dated to you, that's the way it is for a lot of rural Canada. These are not places with municipal LE.

The RCMP binds our country together, fills in the gaps where there is no local LE, and is a symbol for the kinship that all our individual provinces and territories share as one.

 

[Bravo]

Reminder of Vigil tonight and today wear your red