CANADA - shooter in RCMP vehicle & uniform, 22 killed (plus perp), Portapique, NS, 18 April 2020 #2

[Kaley Smith]

It's actually come out that there was no target list. At least the RCMP haven't found one. They did contact people he knew to warn them that he may be coming after them.

 

[Ell2020]

I believe the way that he has treated women/maybe the same woman in the past and the way that he treated his GF on that night leads to him having Misogynistic tendencies.

I'm not saying he was specifically targeting women to kill based on those traits, but I do believe it likely played a role into who he was and why he did the things that he did

I think that’s a common trait for anyone who lacks guilt shame empathy and remorse .

 

[susiQ]

My impression is that this started long before the shooting with a list of targets, fake RCMP cars, RCMP uniform, everything needed to burn several homes, guns and more. This didn't start with spousal abuse.

Yes, and no . I’ve been reading and hesitating to say much. On the one hand, I do believe this night of horror began with spousal abuse, but on the other hand, I agree with you that this really began a long, LONG time ago.

And @ab01, I used to think monsters like this were created at home but I just don’t know anymore. I’m beginning to think some of them are just born twisted from the get go. I venture to say, we all make mistakes along the way as parents, and precious few of us end up with a mass murderer in the family. Thank goodness for that! JMO

 

[ab01]

Yes, and no . I’ve been reading and hesitating to say much. On the one hand, I do believe this night of horror began with spousal abuse, but on the other hand, I agree with you that this really began a long, LONG time ago.

And @ab01, I used to think monsters like this were created at home but I just don’t know anymore. I’m beginning to think some of them are just born twisted from the get go. I venture to say, we all make mistakes along the way as parents, and precious few of us end up with a mass murderer in the family. Thank goodness for that! JMO

Yep agreed! It's likely a combination of nature and nurture. While not all men that are raised in certain backgrounds grow up to be mass killers or even killers, ex. see multiple children that grow up in the same household.

There seems to be a connection in that certain individuals that have natural born traits that are raised in such a way that they do end up developing into, well evil monsters.....

Its truly a combination

: Naturalistic god given traits that they are born with

:Childhood and upbringing

:Real world life experiences

 

[Errrr]

Sorry I don’t have the article at hand but I recall reading about medical experts who conduct research the brains of deceased vicious killers and there’s indication psychopathic brains are different from the norm. I hope his was donated.

What’s left of it, for what that’s worth.

 

[Errrr]

I’m assuming the the only reason she was kept alive at first was for control or punishment. I’m sure he was planning the killings for a while. It wouldn’t surprise me if he wasn’t an amateur and there’s a reason he lit his other police cars on fire before vacating the area

We don’t even know if she was conscious when he left her. He might have planned to burn her. We won’t know till she tells us, so really no point speculating.

 

[ab01]

Yep agreed! It's likely a combination of nature and nurture. While not all men that are raised in certain backgrounds grow up to be mass killers or even killers, ex. see multiple children that grow up in the same household.

There seems to be a connection in that certain individuals that have natural born traits that are raised in such a way that they do end up developing into, well evil monsters.....

Its truly a combination

: Naturalistic god given traits that they are born with

:Childhood and upbringing

:Real world life experiences

quoting myself to add

I do think there are often warning signs in early years that I wish parents were encouraged more to seek help for.

So often there's a stigma that if parents seeks help for their child then they aren't doing their job. Additionally they think they are making them an outcast etc.

It's my belief that understanding those early years of a child's brain development could go along way in stopping the development of some of the things that progress into more dangerous problems as they become older.

Anytime we study violent killers there are always things in their youth that were troubling and many of those things manifest into making them into the violent people that they are when they grow into adults.

sorry I'm rambling and going off topic but anyways

 

[paganini]

I believe the way that he has treated women/maybe the same woman in the past and the way that he treated his GF on that night leads to him having Misogynistic tendencies.

I'm not saying he was specifically targeting women to kill based on those traits, but I do believe it likely played a role into who he was and why he did the things that he did

I’m not saying this clinches it, but the three people he shot truly randomly (not targeted or in a targeted home, not someone getting in his way, not RCMP) were all females.

 

[Errrr]

I believe the way that he has treated women/maybe the same woman in the past and the way that he treated his GF on that night leads to him having Misogynistic tendencies.

I'm not saying he was specifically targeting women to kill based on those traits, but I do believe it likely played a role into who he was and why he did the things that he did

I think guys obsessed with power like this guy, expect a greater amount of deference from women than from men, and if they don’t get it, greater hell breaks loose.

 

[ab01]

I’m not saying this clinches it, but the three people he shot truly randomly (not targeted or in a targeted home, not someone getting in his way, not RCMP) were all females.

Yah I'm not sure if that was bc they were women or just bc they were who he encountered and were convenient targets bc he passed them. You may very well be correct but we just can't say for sure at this point at least IMO

 

[Vern]

RSBM
...
2. There are no reports of survivors from the “party” except perhaps the gf. Was there a party? In the major timeline PC there was no mention of a party. He begins with the gf being restrained at home.

The evening began with he and her getting into an argument at a neighbour's house party. They left the party for home where he beat her up and restrained her. He then headed back to the party where he shot numerous victims (RCMP consider these victims as 'targetted'), inside and outside of the house. She managed to escape and hid in the woods while he was rampaging at the party … (numerous sources for this information linked in here already, but a couple links below as well. RCMP statements about the chaos they encountered upon arriving at that original scene after 911 calls finding casualties and victims inside and outside of the residence, frantic dispatch calls for ambulances etc)

https://nationalpost.com/news/a-lon...rampaging-gunman-terrorized-rural-nova-scotia

Several 911 calls just before 10:30 p.m. brought police officers to a home in the area of Portapique Beach Road. They found "multiple casualties" both inside and outside of the home, but no sign of the shooter, RCMP Chief Supt. Chris Leather would later say. A first twitter message went out, asking the public to stay inside.
...
On one of the recordings, stored on the Broadcastify website, a first responder dispatched to the scene tells the dispatcher they can see something burning in the distance. As police locate victims, calls for ambulances begin to multiply.
...
They left the party and the fight got more intense at home. He tied her up but she managed to escape and hide in the woods , Global said.

Here's a link to a report on the Broadcastify recording where they talk of the abulances bringing some out ... and noting that "there is for sure more patients down there."
‘Multiple patients’: Recordings of first responders reveal frantic bid to help

Link contains numerous videos. They will play at the top of the screen one after the other.
1st Video: Report with Broadcastify recordings
2nd Video: RCMP Statement on Timeline and other details.
3rd Video: RCMP statement and confirmation that girlfriend hid in the woods and other details such as that the assault on her was a "significant assault".

“Do we know if they’ve caught the assailant?” one asks over the radio.

The dispatcher responds: “No not for sure … They’re bringing victims out to that intersection from the actual scene. But no, they don’t know if they’ve caught him. I don’t know.”

The Second video in the above link is quite interesting in that it confirms that the report of a possible vehicle driving through a field to escape the perimeter "came in to them well-after the fact". IMO, that didn't come in to them until at least Sunday and after they'd broadcast that he may be in an faux-RCMP vehicle akin to something like: "Hey, I think I saw a police car crossing over a field last night, but figured it was one of yours looking for him". Ergo the seeming "lack of alert" Saturday night. There's only one road in/out and the shooting victim they encountered was on the side of that road and reported he had been shot by a guy in a car "seeming" to be a police car which then went down the Beach road: IE - further into that community with only one road in/out. Police thought they had him contained to within the perimeter.

At the end of the video there is another interesting statement in that it is confirmed that "RCMP now know, from video's that they've collected, that the shooter came into close proximity with other officers during his spree but chose not to engage them."

Another link with reference to the party argument and then he returning to it after beating and tying her up:
Many Nova Scotia shooting victims were killer’s neighbours, records show

Wortman allegedly left the party after getting into an argument with his girlfriend. He then allegedly tied her up in his house and beat her before returning to the party.

And another:
Nova Scotia shootings began after gunman attacked his girlfriend, sources say

Investigators believe Wortman and his girlfriend were at a party at a nearby home in the Portapique area when Wortman began arguing with her. They left the party and sources believe Wortman escalated the argument back at his cottage — assaulting her and tying her up. She escaped and hid in the woods.
Wortman left his cottage after the assault and investigators believe that’s when the shootings started. He returned to the house where the party was being held and killed several people there, sources said.

Many Nova Scotia shooting victims were killer’s neighbours, records show

The records are consistent with a Global News report that the killings began following a party near Wortman’s Portapique Beach Rd. residence.
Wortman allegedly left the party after getting into an argument with his girlfriend. He then allegedly tied her up in his house and beat her before returning to the party.

And this link confirms they knew he was the suspect Saturday night and that the Portapique Shootings were indeed broadcast on TV Newscasts Saturday night:
'They had no idea the hell they were going to face'

Early into the investigation, police honed in on Wortman as a suspect. They heard that he had three replica police cruisers, both in Portapique and at his other residence in Halifax.

With Wortman's own home on fire, they thought he may have committed suicide.

Believing it to be a limited crime scene, they cordoned off about a 2km-radius of Portapique, and told residents to stay indoors. Over the course of the night, they were able to locate all three vehicles, but were not able to find their suspect.

What they didn't know is that there was a fourth vehicle - a detail that would haunt them in the days to come, as Wortman used the cover of the law to create confusion.
...
Believing they had located all of Wortman's police replicas the night before, RCMP did not warn the public until 9:17am on Sunday that there was an active shooter impersonating a police officer.
...
Mrs Beaton's husband told CTV News his wife was in the early stages of pregnancy, and they had watched reports of the shooting in Portapique on the news the night before.

"We woke up (Sunday) morning and we just assumed it was over," Nick Beaton told CTV.

Wortman's disguise would also lead to his tragic confrontation with Constable Heidi Stevenson and Constable Chad Morrison. As one of the many RCMP officers out on patrol that day, the two had agreed to meet up in Shubenacadie, about 50km south of Debert.

 

[MistyWaters]

I need the definition in front of me in order to put this mass murder into a category.

Misogyny refers specifically to a hatred of women.
​

I cannot find a way to explain this very diverse group of victims as "hatred of women."

https://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/ns-memorial/

At worst, misogyny tends to minimize the deaths of all the male victims, an insinuation I’m certain would devastate those who lost fathers, sons, brothers, uncles, or any male in this senseless tragedy.

 

[Vern]

I’m not saying this clinches it, but the three people he shot truly randomly (not targeted or in a targeted home, not someone getting in his way, not RCMP) were all females.

He shot at least 6 people truly randomly. Mr. Webber was also a random victim on Sunday. As was the gentleman he shot Saturday night in Portapique from "what seemed to be a police car". As was Mr. Corrie Ellison who he killed when he was walking up the road towards the fire. Like his female victim on Sunday, these two were just walking up the road. They were no "threat" to him nor were they "interfering".

One of the women was out for her walk, IMO sex had nothing to do with it and she was a target of opportunity for him as he drove by her. If she had been a male, I think he still would have fired that shot as he went by. After all, he'd done so to the two men the night before who were just walking up the side of roads.

The other two random victims, both women, both nurses shot in Debert, were both pulled over by him from behind "as traffic stops" according to a witness. I'm not convinced they were targeted for traffic stops because they were women because I'm not convinced he could tell they were women when he turned on his lights and came up behind them to effect his fake-traffic stops.

So, in actuality, 3 of 6 truly random victims were women with only one of them being one where we know he knew the sex when he decided he was going to shoot them.

That is akin to the population ratio of men to women, so actually better indicates the victims were indeed randomly selected and not "targeted because of their sex".

 

[MistyWaters]

We don’t even know if she was conscious when he left her. He might have planned to burn her. We won’t know till she tells us, so really no point speculating.

I was just thinking back to the early false news report about his ex and her boyfriend being the initial murder victims. Lots of speculating happening over that too, but it wasn’t true. You’re right, we know so very little at this point, no point filling in the blanks based only on imagination.

 

[LadyL]

Thanks for all that Vern. Very interesting.

 

[paganini]

He shot at least 6 people truly randomly. Mr. Webber was also a random victim on Sunday. As was the gentleman he shot Saturday night in Portapique from "what seemed to be a police car". As was Mr. Corrie Ellison who he killed when he was walking up the road towards the fire. Like his female victim on Sunday, these two were just walking up the road. They were no "threat" to him nor were they "interfering".

One of the women was out for her walk, IMO sex had nothing to do with it and she was a target of opportunity for him as he drove by her. If she had been a male, I think he still would have fired that shot as he went by. After all, he'd done so to the two men the night before who were just walking up the side of roads.

The other two random victims, both women, both nurses shot in Debert, were both pulled over by him from behind "as traffic stops" according to a witness. I'm not convinced they were targeted for traffic stops because they were women because I'm not convinced he could tell they were women when he turned on his lights and came up behind them to effect his fake-traffic stops.

So, in actuality, 3 of 6 truly random victims were women with only one of them being one where we know he knew the sex when he decided he was going to shoot them.

That is akin to the population ratio of men to women, so actually better indicates the victims were indeed randomly selected and not "targeted because of their sex".

I think your three males were shot because the stepped (or drove) into his path. I think the three women were unknown to him and were random targets.

I accept he may have not known the gender of the woman he pulled over. But, I also think he may have known because he got close enough.

 

[paganini]

At worst, misogyny tends to minimize the deaths of all the male victims, an insinuation I’m certain would devastate those who lost fathers, sons, brothers, uncles, or any male in this senseless tragedy.

I don’t believe it minimizes their deaths, and I would not want my opinions to suggest that. For example, I think he targeted Tuck, and the daughter got caught in that... and the people who didn’t answer the door. There is more than misogyny going on, but I believe misogyny is part of it and perhaps a reason even some of the men died... because they were her friend, or their partners were, or because he thought she was hiding in there homes.

 

[Vern]

I think your three males were shot because the stepped (or drove) into his path. I think the three women were unknown to him and were random targets.

I accept he may have not known the gender of the woman he pulled over. But, I also think he may have known because he got close enough.

OK; so two guys walking up the road (not together) are shot (at different times) but they don't count because "you think they …". The surviving victim stated he was just going up the road to check out what was on fire when a guy in a cop car went by and shot him. That's random. Cliff Ellison, brother of Corrie stated that Corrie left the house to go see what was on fire and he found him dead alongside the road. Neither one of these two males knew a rampage was unfurling at the time of their deaths so they did not "step into his path". We have a witness statement from one of them that supports that. And, we have the brother finding his dead brother on the side of a road, not at an other crime scene, so we know he was not "interfering" either. That's random. Just wow. We have actual statements here, from actual victims, one of whom was shot by this guy, and one who found his brother dead on the side of a road away from any other crime scene, that totally refute your "they weren't random" mantra.

These two were doing nothing more than your walking female Victim was. Why are you minimizing their sex and randomness when they were in the exact same situations. Walking up the road. they were not at crime scenes. They were on the sides of roads. All three of them. You don't get to just write of two of them, because they're males, to make your 'stats' fit to being a 3:1 randoms were women scenario.

It wasn't. It was 3:3.

As for the two women he pulled over, witnesses reported it was just like a normal traffic stop and that's what those witnesses thought was happening. He had his lights on then came up behind them as if to pull them over, then killed them. There's witnesses to these too; he didn't just pull up on their butts, check to see if they were women, turn on his lights, stop them, then kill them.

That's the problem with a lot of "misogyny" arguments, the male victims are minimized and written off (even when in the EXACT same circumstances of just walking up the side of a road) so that only the "women" are seen as true/targeted.

That didn't happen here.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

Please stop the bickering over a theory of misogyny and move on from that discussion. While it is a member's theory, it is not based on known fact so there is no point in bickering over the unknown.

Thanks.

 

[drama_farmer]

Changing gears....
I would be a viewer of a "behind the scenes" sort of documentary about this case.
I'm curious about how LE reacted to and/or investigated the early reports that someone appearing to be connected to law enforcement was perpetrating these violent acts.

Before they determined the identity of the perp, I wonder if there was a fear or concern that the person dressed as LE, driving what looked like a cruiser, could have been a "real" cop gone rogue.
If that scenario crossed their minds, I imagine that would have added to the chaos, confusion and need to carefully review any info shared with the public.

I wonder if they performed a quick roll call (of off duty RCMP officers) and maybe something like a check of vehicle inventory to rule out the possibility of a stolen or misused RCMP vehicle.
IMO