CANADA - shooter in RCMP vehicle & uniform, 22 killed (plus perp), Portapique, NS, 18 April 2020 #3

[LadyL]

I have just one question for Lisa, James, & Brian. What did they think would happen after they supplied a known loose cannon with ammunition? They knew or should've known that bullets only lead to death. The current charges are not enough IMO. They are accessories! JMO. I'm disgusted.

 

[tayaway]

The more I read, the more I wonder what she knew or suspected.

"The unredacted documents also described how Bamfield and Wortman drove around central Nova Scotia on the day before the shootings, visiting many of the locations where he would later return to kill people. The common-law couple had been together for approximately 20 years."
​

N.S. mass murderer’s spouse, who survived rampage, charged with giving him bullets

Might this have been a test run?

MOO: And then, she hid all night, knowing what was happening? He may have ranted repeatedly to her about his plans. I have an ex-wife-beater and he used to rage about the violence he wanted to commit, so that's why I ask.

 

[otto]

Might this have been a test run?

MOO: And then, she hid all night, knowing what was happening? He may have ranted repeatedly to her about his plans. I have an ex-wife-beater and he used to rage about the violence he wanted to commit, so that's why I ask.

She bought ammunition for him and drove with him to all the residences where he killed people. He was probably ranting about why each of the people made him mad as he drove the route.

I understand that domestic abuse is complicated, but she was with him for 20 years. That's a long time to remain in an abusive relationship when there are no children keeping her in the relationship, and so many services are in place to assist people with leaving abusive relationships.

I have a hard time believing that she was completely unaware of what he had planned.

 

[otto]

I would think providing her partner with ammunition is the last thing she'd want to do, considering she is said to have been an ongoing victim of his abuse. He has had reported incidents of flying off the handle, of violence, and it seems he may have had a nasty alcohol problem which may have fueled his fire, from what I've read. If she was afraid of him, afraid of what he would do if a neighbour/friend/relative or herself reported his activities and abuse, afraid to leave him, how could she even consider being involved with the provision of weaponry which would most likely lead to her own demise? At the very least, in GW's case, I would think he'd use it to either control or maim his partner. Keep her in line with threats.

I understand she is considered a victim, but I have always had a problem thinking of her hiding out for the entire night, to save her own life. Surely she must have been aware that he was wreaking havoc all around her, unbeknownst to anyone else, until they were faced with it. Surely while hiding in the woods she couldn't have missed seeing fire in the sky, hearing shots fired, smelling smoke, etc. Noise carries. Fire makes the night skies brighter. I would think the smell of homes and vehicles burning would waft through the air for miles. The sounds of them also exploding in pops here and there might have helped to reinforce her perception of her own risk, knowing that he had cruisers, uniforms, weapons, ammunition and even a stockpile of gasoline to fuel the fires at his disposal. But what about the rest of the community. They didn't even have a chance to run and hide.

No pass indeed, and many more questions. imo.

I wonder, what do people *think* will be done with ammunition?

She had the critical information that he had a 4th vehicle that was identical to an RCMP vehicle. Had she communicated that earlier, maybe police could have found him before he committed more murders in the morning.

Up until the time that we learned that she provided the ammunition that was used to kill people, she was a victim. Now she's a willing participant in the murders. She should have gone to the RCMP and reported that he was stockpiling weapons and ammunition, that he had an RCMP uniform and a vehicle that looked like an RCMP vehicle. She made the wrong choice to help him rather than help the community.

 

[otto]

So LB is suing the estate but now her name has been added to the class action lawsuit filed against the estate by the families.

BBM

Common-law partner, 2 others charged with providing ammunition to N.S. shooter
“Campbell says the families of the victims have been notified of the charges.

A lawyer who represents the victims' families says they are relieved charges have been laid.

"They felt that this has been a major piece of the puzzle that has been missing," Robert Pineo told CTV News.

Pineo also says Lisa Banfield will be added to a class-action lawsuit against the killer's estate next week, based on the new information.

"Certainly, if the allegations turn out to be founded that she or they supplied ammunition that was used in a massacre, certainly that's a contributing cause to the deaths of the victims and that would bring civil liability," he explained.....”

I'm guessing this means that she will be added as a defendant?

 

[MistyWaters]

I'm guessing this means that she will be added as a defendant?

Yes, that’s how I understand it.

 

[newguy123]

I can see people saying she was forced to do this since she was in an abusive situation, but her family too??? There is still so much to learn here as this cannot be the full extent of the story. New information such as this cast doubts (for me) on what she said happened that awful night.

 

[tayaway]

I have a hard time believing that she was completely unaware of what he had planned.

This is what I'm saying. IMO, she knew everything, except whether he intended to kill her or not.

 

[otto]

This is what I'm saying. IMO, she knew everything, except whether he intended to kill her or not.

I'm leaning in that direction as well, that she did not expect to be a victim, but he intended to end this with suicide by cop and my guess is that he wanted to take her with him.

 

[otto]

I can see people saying she was forced to do this since she was in an abusive situation, but her family too??? There is still so much to learn here as this cannot be the full extent of the story. New information such as this cast doubts (for me) on what she said happened that awful night.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to believe that her brother and brother-in-law supplied ammunition due to threats. They knew that the shooter could not purchase ammunition and chose to break the law knowing that the law was in place to protect the community.

I don't think we can believe anything she says anymore. She was shoulder to shoulder with real victims expecting financial compensation, whereas she should be compensating the victims.

 

[newguy123]

Just to clarify, when I suggested people saying she was forced or bullied into providing ammunition, it would fit a certain narrative. However, with her family involved too, to me, it means she was doing this willingly, not as a "victim".

I think it's a bit of a stretch to believe that her brother and brother-in-law supplied ammunition due to threats.

Had she acted alone, people could make the argument about it being related to the abuse. With her family participating, in my opinion, it negates that argument.

 

[otto]

The 52 year old girlfriend claims that this started with an argument between them, but this can't be true since the day before the shootings they drove to the locations for the planned shootings.

The girlfriend knew that he could not legally obtain ammunition. She, her brother, or her brother-in-law could have told RCMP that Wortman was asking others to obtain ammunition, either by request or threat, and RCMP would have investigated.

“The RCMP has confirmed the suspect did not have a firearms acquisition certificate (FAC). Efforts to determine the origins of weapons used by Mr. Wortman, as well as the number of people who died from gunshots, remains ongoing,” the note said.
...

The briefing note also indicates gunman was armed with “over capacity ammunition boxes,” sourced outside of Canada. Under Canadian law, handguns have a limit of 10 bullets, while rifles are legally limited to five.

“The standard capacity for an AR-15 is a 30 round magazine. Obviously a big difference,” Somerset said.

Any RCMP officers who encountered the shooter would have been “badly outgunned,” according to Somerset, as Wortman had access to extended magazines and more powerful firearms."
​

Colt carbine, Ruger Mini-14 among illegally obtained firearms used by Nova Scotia shooter, docs show

 

[jillybean51]

If I was in a domestic abuse situation, the last thing I would do is buy bullets for his gun!!!Just saying...

 

[MistyWaters]

The 52 year old girlfriend claims that this started with an argument between them, but this can't be true since the day before the shootings they drove to the locations for the planned shootings.

The girlfriend knew that he could not legally obtain ammunition. She, her brother, or her brother-in-law could have told RCMP that Wortman was asking others to obtain ammunition, either by request or threat, and RCMP would have investigated.

“The RCMP has confirmed the suspect did not have a firearms acquisition certificate (FAC). Efforts to determine the origins of weapons used by Mr. Wortman, as well as the number of people who died from gunshots, remains ongoing,” the note said.
...

The briefing note also indicates gunman was armed with “over capacity ammunition boxes,” sourced outside of Canada. Under Canadian law, handguns have a limit of 10 bullets, while rifles are legally limited to five.

“The standard capacity for an AR-15 is a 30 round magazine. Obviously a big difference,” Somerset said.

Any RCMP officers who encountered the shooter would have been “badly outgunned,” according to Somerset, as Wortman had access to extended magazines and more powerful firearms."
​

Colt carbine, Ruger Mini-14 among illegally obtained firearms used by Nova Scotia shooter, docs show

When the allegations are eventually heard, I’m curious why three related people would be required to provide the shooter with ammunition? Was the total quantity so great the three people were required so it wouldn’t appear quite so suspicious if each bought one-third? And not a one thought anything concerning about that?

Something else that is troublesome to me
- how without having been a police officer the shooter successfully got together all the parts and pieces of the RCMP uniform
- he created a replica police car reportedly, with the help of others
- his weaponry, bought illegally from others
- now we learn his common law wife and 2 of her relatives allegedly enabled him by illegally providing him with ammunition.

Piece by piece, each detail, how many people contributed to the tragedy? I’m not saying anyone did so knowingly but still, collectively each of the single components is what facilitated this horrid killing spree - to an extent well beyond the typical maniac on the loose with a gun.

JMO

 

[deugirtni]

The more I read, the more I wonder what she knew or suspected.

"The unredacted documents also described how Bamfield and Wortman drove around central Nova Scotia on the day before the shootings, visiting many of the locations where he would later return to kill people. The common-law couple had been together for approximately 20 years."
​

N.S. mass murderer’s spouse, who survived rampage, charged with giving him bullets

Thirteen were killed right in Portapique (I think?), so surely they are not included in the 'visiting many of the locations where he would later return to kill people', since they were right in the couple's own neighbourhood?

So what is LB referring to? Two (nurses) and a person walking their dog, a man who showed up to assist what he believed to be an RCMP collision, an RCMP officer who happened upon him unwittingly at the time (she thought he was somewhere else), .. the man (Bagley) who went to assist his neighbours whose house was on fire ... those were random, imho.. other than that LB has intimated that her partner hated police, so I'm sure any RCMP officer(s) would have fit his agenda.. but she must therefore be referring to having visited the areas where the other denturist (Goulet), and the two Corrections employees (McLeod and Jenkins), when she said that?

I wonder what would've given the couple occasion to visit the areas in which these 3 people lived? Wasn't it said the gunman had stayed awhile in the McLeod/Jenkins house? (yes, I found it.. see below). Goulet was the final murder victim, I believe? I wonder if perhaps LB knew the addresses of these people, and they took a drive around, whereby he casually asked her to show him where they lived.. but it was all a hatching plan to make his getaway. He also spent the night in Debert, according to reports.

To me, it sounds now more like he had a plan in his mind to kill a bunch of neighbours along with his partner, and get away to somewhere else, perhaps to start a new life (was the money he'd taken out from the banks with him when he was found?). He thought he had killed his partner in the fires he'd set, and the other casualties were possibly just collateral damage in order to make his getaway? His plan only got tripped up when Gina's 'getaway vehicle' didn't have the fuel to support it, and police who happened to be fuelling at the same time recognized him.

Dan Jenkins told the newspaper the killer likely arrived at his daughter’s house on Hunter Road around 6:30 a.m. and the house was set on fire between 7 and 8 a.m. The RCMP said Tuesday he was seen near the Hunter Road house near 6:30″ and believe he shot the victims soon after and stayed in the house “for some time” before leaving the area at 9:35 a.m.
...
The suspect then drove to the Shubenacadie home of denturist Gina Goulet, shot her and her dog, changed out of his police officer’s uniform and took her red Mazda 3. A friend said Goulet may have known Wortman professionally, but she had never mentioned his name so it couldn’t have been a close association.

N.S. Shooter Drove Through Portapique Field, Hid Out Overnight in Debert, RCMP Say In Updated Timeline

 

[deugirtni]

When the allegations are eventually heard, I’m curious why three related people would be required to provide the shooter with ammunition? Was the total quantity so great the three people were required so it wouldn’t appear quite so suspicious if each bought one-third? And not a one thought anything concerning about that?

Something else that is troublesome to me
- how without having been a police officer the shooter successfully got together all the parts and pieces of the RCMP uniform
- he created a replica police car reportedly, with the help of others
- his weaponry, bought illegally from others
- now we learn his common law wife and 2 of her relatives allegedly enabled him by illegally providing him with ammunition.

Piece by piece, each detail, how many people contributed to the tragedy? I’m not saying anyone did so knowingly but still, collectively each of the single components is what facilitated this horrid killing spree - to an extent well beyond the typical maniac on the loose with a gun.

JMO

Many people are 'collectors' of .. whatever stuff interests them. Someone who may have helped a guy gather items of RCMP uniform or vehicle under the guise of an interested collector is quite different from someone who may have helped him, knowing he 'hated' police. I wonder which knowledge those helpers were working with?

It makes sense that it would arouse suspicion if too much ammunition was purchased, so needed more than one person to buy it on his behalf. Did LB also have a permit?

I wonder if police will be able to determine who the firearms were purchased from, even though the guns were said to have been from the USA. They could've originated there, but been sold illegally here in Canada. I'm thinking about the sentence that Matthew Ward Jackson received for selling Dellen Millard the guns which he subsequently used to kill people. Although MWJ may not have known who or how, he had to have known the guns were to be used illegally.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/matthew-ward-jackson-sentenced-1.4484762

 

[otto]

Maybe he modified the RCMP uniform that his uncle owned.

"One witness told Halifax police that Wortman has an uncle who was in the RCMP and the witness believed Wortman had one of the uncle's uniforms, "but it didn't fit." The gunman began his rampage wearing an authentic RCMP shirt and pants, police have said."​

Warrant alleges N.S. mass shooter was seasoned smuggler of narcotics, U.S. guns - HalifaxToday.ca

 

[tayaway]

Thirteen were killed right in Portapique (I think?), so surely they are not included in the 'visiting many of the locations where he would later return to kill people', since they were right in the couple's own neighbourhood?

So what is LB referring to? Two (nurses) and a person walking their dog, a man who showed up to assist what he believed to be an RCMP collision, an RCMP officer who happened upon him unwittingly at the time (she thought he was somewhere else), .. the man (Bagley) who went to assist his neighbours whose house was on fire ... those were random, imho.. other than that LB has intimated that her partner hated police, so I'm sure any RCMP officer(s) would have fit his agenda.. but she must therefore be referring to having visited the areas where the other denturist (Goulet), and the two Corrections employees (McLeod and Jenkins), when she said that?

I wonder what would've given the couple occasion to visit the areas in which these 3 people lived? Wasn't it said the gunman had stayed awhile in the McLeod/Jenkins house? (yes, I found it.. see below). Goulet was the final murder victim, I believe? I wonder if perhaps LB knew the addresses of these people, and they took a drive around, whereby he casually asked her to show him where they lived.. but it was all a hatching plan to make his getaway. He also spent the night in Debert, according to reports.

To me, it sounds now more like he had a plan in his mind to kill a bunch of neighbours along with his partner, and get away to somewhere else, perhaps to start a new life (was the money he'd taken out from the banks with him when he was found?). He thought he had killed his partner in the fires he'd set, and the other casualties were possibly just collateral damage in order to make his getaway? His plan only got tripped up when Gina's 'getaway vehicle' didn't have the fuel to support it, and police who happened to be fuelling at the same time recognized him.

Dan Jenkins told the newspaper the killer likely arrived at his daughter’s house on Hunter Road around 6:30 a.m. and the house was set on fire between 7 and 8 a.m. The RCMP said Tuesday he was seen near the Hunter Road house near 6:30″ and believe he shot the victims soon after and stayed in the house “for some time” before leaving the area at 9:35 a.m.
...
The suspect then drove to the Shubenacadie home of denturist Gina Goulet, shot her and her dog, changed out of his police officer’s uniform and took her red Mazda 3. A friend said Goulet may have known Wortman professionally, but she had never mentioned his name so it couldn’t have been a close association.

N.S. Shooter Drove Through Portapique Field, Hid Out Overnight in Debert, RCMP Say In Updated Timeline

He wasn't done killing people he knew - he planned to continue it in Halifax, so they must've drove there the day before as well.

 

[Errrr]

If I was in a domestic abuse situation, the last thing I would do is buy bullets for his gun!!!Just saying...

I wonder if there’s a way to tamper with them to blow up inside the gun.?

 

[MistyWaters]

I wonder if there’s a way to tamper with them to blow up inside the gun.?

Not sure where you’re going with this - are you wondering if the ammunition was purchased intending that he’d kill himself by a gun that’d been tampered with? Tampering with someone’s gun, vehicle, furnace or anything for the purpose of intentionally causing a person’s death is considered to be murder.

If that were a defence - admitting to one illegal act with the intention of committing a far more serious crime, that wouldn’t go very far IMO.