CANADA Canada - Unsolved murders of young people in London, Ont, 1960s-70s

[Kell1]

Very informative post, RichKelly. BTW, I completely understand where you are coming from.
Regarding these cases, also keep in mind that all of them were re-examined around 2000 as part of Project Angel. A specific team of officers spent time taking a new look at all of these, and re-interviewing as appropriate. Several other cases, where were also part of Project Angel were closed during its existence.

Its not an excuse, as much as an explanation as to possibly why.

they absolutely should've dug into these cases, but I also understand why they might've went cold,

Its certainly a daunting task , hell one serial killer in an area, can be a task in and of itself 2 or more ... better not make any plans

 

[Snoopster]

The sad part is that MANY do expect us to be perfect,

In my experience its not that they don't feel compassion for the family, or that they don't feel the families are owed an explanation, ive seen hardened cops break down Ive seen guys balk approaching a door to deliver bad news.

They do fee empathy , and the families of the victims, do deserve closure .

The problem is that sometimes, they cant

Law Enforcement is a strange existence, many don't understand it till I tell them that in our field when you kiss your wife and kids goodbye before you leave for work.. you may actually mean it one day

Detectives, aren't your ordinary everyday people, they're hardened, by years on the job..

For example, take one gruesome, homicide, .. it may be a child, it may be a prostitute, it may be someone's husband....now multiply that by 10 add in there that your boss's boss is over his head, pushing him to get any one of these homicides solved, as well is the public, you're beating the public for information, but in some cases, you're dealing with the "F the police" mentality not to mention the media which can be a help or a hindrance, being careful what you say or do so as not to tip off any info you don't want leaked, yet someone over at the "daily fish wrapper" decided to put an article out stating that it could be the work of a "Serial Killer" (the en vogue term nowadays), and everyone's ears go up, and the pressure goes up exponentially, because NOW you have to try to link these cases or disprove it , all the while in your head your looking at yet another body, who sadly bears a resemblance to your own child, on your 5th day away from home, where you haven't seen your wife (or husband) or kids, and back at the precinct you have families, asking questions, 24 hours a day, leaving messages to the point your voicemail box is filled by noon . Only to have yet ANOTHER file come across your desk....

Back at home, they may be dealing with issues, as well, their child is sick, or having problems in school, their wife, struggles with them being away all the time, and the common curse of being in law enforcement.. its not like you can come home and discuss this stuff over a spaghetti dinner!

On top of that you still have bills to pay, your health suffers because of the relentless, consumption of fast food, gallons of caffeine , irregular sleep patterns, little time to exercise, lack of socialization with family and friends. hours standing, or sitting in a dark car looking at a house a "person of interest" may or may not even be in.

Not to mention the regular stress of the job itself, where you have to worry about some Dbag taking a shot at you (literally) simply because you have a badge

And on the vacation you finally do get, all you can do is run these cases through your head, while trying to enjoy tossing your kids around the pool, and that cold beer you drink becomes more of a form of relief instead of enjoyment.. Knowing FULL well that at any time your phone could ring, with info or questions about any one of those dozens of homicides.. or worse a new one

For example look at the divorce rate for Law Enforcement officers....MANY MANY law enforcement officers marriages, fail because of the nature of the beast, and often they find themselves in the arms of Nurses, or other law enforcement personnel because its very hard to find someone who understands, not only shift work, but the horrid nature, of what they do on some level

Over time some of it can be akin to bedside manner by physicians, some are more cold than others, some are more nurturing, depending on what they've been through

And after all this BTW another case just came across your desk...

Thank you for taking the time to share your perspective. I wish more LE would spend time on these boards...although I understand that they work at it all day and don't necessarily want more of the same on their off-time.

I think the jurisdictional issues come into play in some of these cases as both the city police and provincial police were involved, although most of them (if not all?) now fall under the provincial cold case unit.

 

[Kell1]

Thank you for taking the time to share your perspective. I wish more LE would spend time on these boards...although I understand that they work at it all day and don't necessarily want more of the same on their off-time.

I think the jurisdictional issues come into play in some of these cases as both the city police and provincial police were involved, although most of them (if not all?) now fall under the provincial cold case unit.

Im former LE, though still involved in it ,

I wouldn't have come here if it wasn't for a friend who suggested it after helping her with a case.

I feel if anything I post helps anyone then its worth it, hell I went to school long enough for it I might as well share ..=

Jurisdictional /intra departmental issues do happen man it sucks, Police departments, are proud organizations, and in many cases rightfully so ....so its a blow when you have to turn to another department for help . For EX I know some guys HATED when the FBI was brought in on a case, they treated those guy like $hit , its almost like they felt they had to admit defeat .

Lesser nowadays, as pressure to solve these things, beckons you get any and all the help you can.

Id rather have the FBI involved STEP 1, the more hunters we have after the the harder it is for him to hide plus they have the resources, the manpower, and the fancy toys

 

[Wondergirl]

Speaking from a Law Enforcement perspective, and this isn't meant to be an excuse, but sometimes, we don't have all the info people assume we have.

Sometimes, departments are reluctant to share info with other departments, , I have seen it first hand, that coupled with botched investigatory practices is sometimes, why investigations stall.

The media can also be a HUGE pain in the as well, there are times, when things are put out in the media that aren't true or aren't completely true about the case, which makes it appear that since the public knows it we obviously have more info on the case, which is not only untrue, but adds undue pressure .

Then there's also always the issue of media getting ahold of and leaking critical info that law enforcement doesn't want released, which has lead to criminals actually being able to avoid apprehension .

Now within large metropolitan areas.. Philadelphia pa for example, there can be so many homicides at one time that a department can get overwhelmed trying to solve them all, which means some will go unsolved, it may be for long periods of time, sometimes, the don't get solved.

Now as for the victims,

Its certainly more than coincidence, like I said with the info given Id be willing to take a guess.. without seeing ANYTHING to generate any linkage findings, you are looking at 1 possibly 2 Serial offenders operating in the same area.

But without the required materials Id be hesitant to state whether or not I felt more were responsible, or that I thought the possible suspects were responsible for more than they may be.

You'd have to look at the minute details in each case, to determine whether or not this was the work of repetitive predator

Unless he was to be caught and admits to certain crimes, which we love.

Other factors also come into play in cases of multiple homicides as well, socioeconomic factors like the crime rate , the unemployment rate in the area, the drug culture, in the specific area etc..

It sounds as if it was so many so fast that Law enforcement got logged under, and couldn't link cases, before they went cold .

Which is sometimes a sad truth of the business

Thanks for your input.

Do you have experience with ViCLAS?

 

[Kell1]

Thanks for your input.

Do you have experience with ViCLAS?

Actually ive only heard about that recently, its the tool to help with linkage analysis I believe.

 

[dotr]

Just found this article which I don't think has been posted yet, sorry if it has..

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/0...ller-capital-michael-arntfield_n_4937693.html

" London, Ontario Was Serial Killer Capital Of The World: Book

The Huffington Post Canada | Posted: 03/10/2014 "

"London, Ont. is famous for a number of reasons.

It is home to Western University (UWO), one of Canada's top schools, and is the birthplace of many notable Canadians including Justin Bieber, Ryan Gosling and Rachel McAdams.

But the city's reputation may soon turn infamous: it was once the serial killer capital of the world, say the authors of an upcoming book.

"Murder City: A Social History of the World Capital of Serial Homicide" is the tentative title for an upcoming book by UWO professor Dr. Michael Arntfield and co-author Lee Mellor.

As many as six serial killers may have been operating at the same time in London from 1960 to 1985, when the population was about 200,000 people, CTV News reported on Monday.

Thirty-two people were killed in that period — all of them women and children, and all deaths involved "grotesque mutilations" that could have been the work of serial murderers, Arntfield told the network.

"No other city in the world, including Los Angeles, at any point in history has had so many at once," he said".

 

[dotr]

Unfortunately a linkage analysis is almost impossible without crime scene photos, autopsy protocols, and autopsy reports.

These cases could be the work of a serial killer, multiple serial killers, or not at all.

Given what's listed, at least 2 of the cases, are possibly the work of A Serial predator working the area, at the time.. again this is based, solely on media reports

there's also s strong possibility there was (is) more than 1

However there's simply not enough info (here) to general a psychological or general profile of the offender, with what's listed, its impossible to say definitively this is an individual with a deep interest in necrophilia etc... though I cant discount it either without those materials

Missed this lengthy, interesting article along the way, several serial killers is apparently a very good possibility..

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...io-may-still-be-alive-and-free-new-book-says/

"As many as five serial killers who operated in London, Ontario, may still be alive and free, new book says


Joseph Brean | March 11, 2014 6:07 PM ET"


"Isolated between Detroit and Toronto, but linked by new highways in the 1950s, the university town fits the mould for serial killer incubation, according to Michael Arntfield, formerly of the London Police Service, now a professor at Western University with broad interest in criminology and forensic techniques.

Of 32 sexual homicides in this period, 13 were the work of killers who have been caught. With new research based in part on new insights into psychopathy, Prof. Arntfield has split the remaining 19 into four clusters — alpha, beta, charlie and delta — and believes he has identified patterns other investigators missed, including one of the earliest known cases of serial killer copycatting in Canada."

 

[Snoopster]

Missed this lengthy, interesting article along the way, several serial killers is apparently a very good possibility..

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...io-may-still-be-alive-and-free-new-book-says/

"As many as five serial killers who operated in London, Ontario, may still be alive and free, new book says


Joseph Brean | March 11, 2014 6:07 PM ET"


"Isolated between Detroit and Toronto, but linked by new highways in the 1950s, the university town fits the mould for serial killer incubation, according to Michael Arntfield, formerly of the London Police Service, now a professor at Western University with broad interest in criminology and forensic techniques.

Of 32 sexual homicides in this period, 13 were the work of killers who have been caught. With new research based in part on new insights into psychopathy, Prof. Arntfield has split the remaining 19 into four clusters — alpha, beta, charlie and delta — and believes he has identified patterns other investigators missed, including one of the earliest known cases of serial killer copycatting in Canada."

Thanks dotr.

I had the opportunity to meet Dr. Anrtfield. He is clearly dedicated to solving some of these cases. I will say that he is also trying to sell his book and clearly he had to come up with a 'conclusion' about the old murders in London.

I'm not sure I completely agree with him. Yes, London was a 'provincial' city suddenly connected by major highways, however I'm not sure that the murderers were from out of town. It might have simply been a statistical blip. I also think that the Lynn Harper murder in southwestern Ontario, and related conviction of 14 year old Steven Truscott, shook LE in this region back in the 1960s, and may have made them skittish in their pursuit of possible culprits. (for those not from the area, Truscott was infamously discharged after many years, as many felt he was railroaded in the murder conviction.)

Regardless, there was clearly a disproportionately large number of young people who were murdered in London in the late 1960s and early 1970s.

 

[whiterhino]

Hello to anyone reading this post, I am wondering if someone can point me in the right direction? I realizethis thread is for cold cases prior to the 1990's but where do I post about a cold case from London during the 90's? It is regarding the murder of a highschool classmate of mine.

His name was Samuel Lottery & I did not know him personally, I remember seeing his face in the hallways at school. His murder has never left my mind & it is a very disturbing case Imho. You can find the details on the London Police Department site. I am on my phone & cannot paste links atm. Can someone please tell me the appropriate thread, I have found nothing via search. Thanks in advance!

 

[whiterhino]

Just to add: He was a student at H.B Beal Secondary. His remains were found along the Thames River in sseveral locations at several times over a period of years. First remains were found near Blackfriars Bridge, which is within blocks of the church his family attended. His family recieved taunting letters written on floral stationary. I believe there were 2 letters, one found at the church & one sent to the family home.

The images of the letters are also on the LDP website but are extremely poor quality. With the Toronto Police opening up cold cases & asking for the publics' help, I thought I'd try to bring attention to this case as it seems no one knows about it.

I also want to say that I do not know this family & only hope I'm not showing disrespect by bringing it up. This case just seems truly forgotten about.

 

[Snoopster]

Hi Whiterino. Sam's case is certainly a sad mystery. I have read a few newspaper articles about him over the years. He deserves his own thread. I'm heading off to work right now, so can't set one up right now. If no one does it soon, I will try to set up a new thread for him over the next day or so.

 

[whiterhino]

Thank you so much & apologize for my typos! Not used to posting on here yet but between Samuel Lottery, Luka Magnotta & Vanessa Fotheringham (sp?) I really want to contribute more.

Another question: Are all missing women from London/GTA & surrounding areas being posted in the Missing: Canada/Toronto & GTA thread? I believe Vanessa has a thread but there is another woman missing from London. Patricia Bordato has been missing since 2009 last seen 10 minutes from my home. I posted about her in the Luke Magnotta thread under Other Crimes.

I'm sorry this is a sloppy post, trying to get my info organized!

 

[dotr]

Thank you so much & apologize for my typos! Not used to posting on here yet but between Samuel Lottery, Luka Magnotta & Vanessa Fotheringham (sp?) I really want to contribute more.

Another question: Are all missing women from London/GTA & surrounding areas being posted in the Missing: Canada/Toronto & GTA thread? I believe Vanessa has a thread but there is another woman missing from London. Patricia Bordato has been missing since 2009 last seen 10 minutes from my home. I posted about her in the Luke Magnotta thread under Other Crimes.

I'm sorry this is a sloppy post, trying to get my info organized!

Hello whiterhino, Glad you found this thread, started one for Samuel Lottery, also for Kathryn Patricia Bordato which hopefully are not too sloppy!


Samuel Lottery
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...rious-unsolved-murder&p=11321313#post11321313

Kathryn Patricia Bordato
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-July-14-2009-missing&p=11321635#post11321635


This is the thread for Vanessa Fotheringham

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ON-16-Feb-2012&highlight=vanessa+fotheringham

 

[whiterhino]

Yeah, I came across that story & at the time Magnotta was on the run. I breifly thought the "nephew" could be Luka because one afternoon I saw that woman walking towards a parked black pickup truck & the driver looked like LRM (the version of LRM with crazy dark eyebrows & Bert and Ernie hairstyle).

You can actually see her on an aerial view of Google maps talking to a man on the bench in Cavendish park. I found that info via another website where some of her family had posted saying they miss her. I'll have to look again for the site & coordinates of the park.

The thing that freaks me out the most is that I myself have been stopped by the same man in the same green Mustang ttwo different occassions. I read the whole Missing GTA thread today & I look exactly like those missing women. Short, petite w long brown hair. I reported the second attempt w LE & they thought nothing of it. Just a weirdo hitting on women.

The guy blitzed me. He literally pulled the car over, got out & followed after me on the sidewalk. Then he blitzed me with questions about sports & breach volleyball. It was so bizarre I came home & googled "indoor beach volleyball" & found his identity. I have given all this info to LE & still women are going missing. This is the best I can do to share this info here.

 

[Tulessa]

I hope whiterhino, will go through the process of being verified. She can help us with her being local. Also, these links pertaining to Sam need to be put in his thread also. I'm battling the flu, or I would transfer them.

 

[whiterhino]

I don't know how to verify myself or what that means lol! I added the Google streetview screenshots to Kathryns' thread. There is an image of the stationary sent to the Lottery family but the image is terrible quality. Maybe someone can find it & try to sharpen the image? Apologies for my writing, I'm struggling with this keyboard & mobile site & massive headache. Thanks for the replies, I feel good to be doing something proactive even if it's just a drop in the bucket.

 

[Tulessa]

I don't know how to verify myself or what that means lol! I added the Google streetview screenshots to Kathryns' thread. There is an image of the stationary sent to the Lottery family but the image is terrible quality. Maybe someone can find it & try to sharpen the image? Apologies for my writing, I'm struggling with this keyboard & mobile site & massive headache. Thanks for the replies, I feel good to be doing something proactive even if it's just a drop in the bucket.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?521-Verified-Professional-and-Insider-Members Read it here. We will need YOU lol.

 

[dotr]

Bumping for all the lives lost, the beautiful circa 60's-70's youth of London, Ontario - and hoping that one day soon, these cases might be solved!

 

[LadyL]

I'm just reading this book right now and am completely creeped out. I think I read linked articles last year but somehow missed the book. It has robbed me of sleep.

Just found this article which I don't think has been posted yet, sorry if it has..

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/0...ller-capital-michael-arntfield_n_4937693.html

" London, Ontario Was Serial Killer Capital Of The World: Book

The Huffington Post Canada | Posted: 03/10/2014 "

"London, Ont. is famous for a number of reasons.

It is home to Western University (UWO), one of Canada's top schools, and is the birthplace of many notable Canadians including Justin Bieber, Ryan Gosling and Rachel McAdams.

But the city's reputation may soon turn infamous: it was once the serial killer capital of the world, say the authors of an upcoming book.

"Murder City: A Social History of the World Capital of Serial Homicide" is the tentative title for an upcoming book by UWO professor Dr. Michael Arntfield and co-author Lee Mellor.

As many as six serial killers may have been operating at the same time in London from 1960 to 1985, when the population was about 200,000 people, CTV News reported on Monday.

Thirty-two people were killed in that period — all of them women and children, and all deaths involved "grotesque mutilations" that could have been the work of serial murderers, Arntfield told the network.

"No other city in the world, including Los Angeles, at any point in history has had so many at once," he said".

 

[dotr]

[video=youtube;iCZJ3Xt_w3o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCZJ3Xt_w3o[/video]