Canadian hostage, wife & children freed from Afghanistan, husband arrested for abuse, Oct 2017 #3

[otto]

I think we can all agree that a ”not guilty” verdict does not mean Boyle is “innocent” of the charges. It simply means that the judge did not believe there was enough evidence to find him guilty. There is certainly no evidence that he is a poor, pitiful victim of a conniving, lying woman “who did her best to inflict pain and stress on Boyle.”

I certainly don't agree that a "not guilty" verdict means guilty but the justice system got it wrong. I suspect that many people view a "not guilty" verdict in the same way.

If "guilty" and "not guilty" mean the same thing, except one has consequences and the other doesn't, then the justice system is seriously mess up.

 

[Medstudies]

I don’t believe they were equally traumatized while in captivity. How many times was he raped? Forced to abort? Impregnated? How many pregnancies did he endure? Because misogyny.

 

[bears10]

At the end of a criminal trial, a finding by a judge or jury that a defendant is not guilty. An acquittal signifies that a prosecutor failed to prove his or her case beyond a reasonable doubt, not that a defendant is innocent. Thus, a person may be acquitted of a crime but found civilly liable in a civil case regarding that same crime, e.g. O.J. Simpson, because civil cases have a lower burden of proof than criminal cases.

Acquittal

 

[Stunned]

There has been a total change in her behavior since getting away from him. I probably missed it, but did child services interview older boys?

 

[otto]

I don’t believe they were equally traumatized while in captivity. How many times was he raped? Forced to abort? Impregnated? How many pregnancies did he endure? Because misogyny.

The courts have determined that Coleman cannot be believed. Are we going to assume that she can be believed, contrary to the verdict, and then impugn Bolye's character on that basis?

Why don't we accept Coleman's statement that her memory is unreliable, and the court's statement that she is an unreliable witness?

Perhaps the questions should be: was she raped? did she miscarry? was there an induced abortion? How many times was she pregnant?

 

[Medstudies]

Dbm

 

[Medstudies]

The courts have determined that Coleman cannot be believed. Are we going to assume that she can be believed, contrary to the verdict, and then impugn Bolye's character on that basis?

Why don't we accept Coleman's statement that her memory is unreliable, and the court's statement that she is an unreliable witness?

Perhaps the questions should be: was she raped? did she miscarry? was there an induced abortion? How many times was she pregnant?

Well her husband is on record saying a baby was killed. and that she was raped. So is he lying?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...5b1d2c-b0d1-11e7-a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html


Eta: how many pregnancies did he carry? Had paternity been done? Maybe the rapist is the bio dad and not him.

 

[bears10]

JB had issues long before they were released. Long before he ever stepped foot in the middle east. Remember his disturbing Wikepedia obsession? If not, the link below has detailed information about his Wikepedia activity, such as:

Boyle waged an internal Wikipedia fight for a year over the use of gruesome photos of the murdered children of Joseph Goebbels, Hitler’s propaganda minister. He first sought out the images, saying he would be “forever indebted” if someone found them, and then championed their use despite complaints they were “depraved” and “ghastly.” Boyle angrily responded: “Let’s nix the offensively crude depictions of death on crucifix and Jesus Christ as well… btw, this is sarcasm.”

One editor said Boyle’s passion for using multiple images of the children’s bodies left him “extremely worried.” Unwilling to let it go, Boyle amended his Wikipedia signature to “Speaker for the Dead.” The current entry uses none of the photos.

Other controversial photos he added include a 1910 photo of a sexually-abused German boy that an editor quickly deleted saying it was “extreme.” Boyle added it a second time saying “nothing wrong with image.” The photo is not currently in use. He also added photos from the 1940s of examples of human cannibalism.

From Nazi women and Khadrs to Star Wars and torture: A look at Joshua Boyle’s vast Wikipedia edits

 

[Montrealaise]

I agree that he probably doesn't want the responsibility, but that's what mommy and daddy are for. I am sure he would have his parents do the heavy lifting.

I think he will be vindictive during the custody case. It gives him a great opportunity to continue inflicting pain and stress on CC. Plus, he has way too much pride to go down without a fight. Often times, messy custody battles aren't even about the kids. Instead, the real motive is to hurt the other parent and "win". I picture JB as one of those parents that will make the custody case about himself, and getting "revenge" on CC.

I think it's time for mommy and daddy to stop being his enablers. They undoubtedly paid attorney Greenspon's fees but they need to tell JB that they will not pay the fees of a family law attorney nor will they agree to raise his children. I completely agree that he will be very vindictive and that his real motive is to "punish" CC. I don't believe that he really wants the children or that he has their best interests at heart. Remember, he repeatedly impregnated CC while they were in captivity, knowing that the children would be born into horrible circumstances, without medical care or other basic amenities of life. At his trial, witnesses testified that he never took care of the children, relying on CC to do so, even bringing them to the hospital where she was hospitalized so she could care for him and he didn't have to.

 

[Montrealaise]

I certainly don't agree that a "not guilty" verdict means guilty but the justice system got it wrong. I suspect that many people view a "not guilty" verdict in the same way.

If "guilty" and "not guilty" mean the same thing, except one has consequences and the other doesn't, then the justice system is seriously mess up.

A "not guilty" verdict means that the defendant may or may not committed the crime he's accused of, but the prosecutor did not have the evidence to establish guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The standard of proof in criminal cases is very high - much higher than in civil cases (including family law cases) where the standard is balance of probabilities.\

I don't understand why you are so intent on arguing that JB is the innocent victim of a conniving woman who made up allegations just to get the upper hand in a custody dispute. Did you miss the judge's finding that JB is NOT a credible witness, i.e. he's a liar? And there has been a lot written in the media about how odd he has always been, even before the adventure in Afghanistan. The disturbing obsessions with torture and terrorism, his control-freak personality - he's not the nice, misunderstood guy you make him out to be.

 

[nuff]

The courts have determined that Coleman cannot be believed.

Not "the courts" - one judge said that he found neither entirely credible. He made it clear in his remarks that he didn't believe JB either. If the Crown appeals - as we might hope - an appeal court might find differently. But, as we know, our justice system does not deal fairly or effectively with domestic violence cases (whether that violence is physical or psychological or both.) Proof beyond a reasonable doubt is not a reasonable standard in cases that rely entirely on the testimony of two people.

Custody is an entirely separate issue. Hard to imagine how any family court could think JB is a fit parent.

 

[otto]

Well her husband is on record saying a baby was killed. and that she was raped. So is he lying?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...5b1d2c-b0d1-11e7-a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html

Eta: how many pregnancies did he carry? Had paternity been done? Maybe the rapist is the bio dad and not him.

Thanks! I would imagine that those experiences were equally horrific for both parents.

 

[otto]

A "not guilty" verdict means that the defendant may or may not committed the crime he's accused of, but the prosecutor did not have the evidence to establish guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The standard of proof in criminal cases is very high - much higher than in civil cases (including family law cases) where the standard is balance of probabilities.\

I don't understand why you are so intent on arguing that JB is the innocent victim of a conniving woman who made up allegations just to get the upper hand in a custody dispute. Did you miss the judge's finding that JB is NOT a credible witness, i.e. he's a liar? And there has been a lot written in the media about how odd he has always been, even before the adventure in Afghanistan. The disturbing obsessions with torture and terrorism, his control-freak personality - he's not the nice, misunderstood guy you make him out to be.

As I've said, I don't think Coleman or Boyle are normal, and I'm certain that they will always experience PTSD due to their 5 years of captivity. I believe they both suffered tremendously during captivity.

I do, however, accept that a not guilty verdict means that someone is not guilty of the crimes for which they were tried. I'm sure that there is some truth to both sides of the "he said she said," but I don't think the criminal court was the right place to air their dirty laundry.

 

[bears10]

As I've said, I don't think Coleman or Boyle are normal, and I'm certain that they will always experience PTSD due to their 5 years of captivity. I believe they both suffered tremendously during captivity.

I do, however, accept that a not guilty verdict means that someone is not guilty of the crimes for which they were tried. I'm sure that there is some truth to both sides of the "he said she said," but I don't think the criminal court was the right place to air their dirty laundry.

so you think that Casey Anthony and OJ are innocent?

 

[Medstudies]

Thanks! I would imagine that those experiences were equally horrific for both parents.

Sorry if I got shot, stabbed or assaulted I don’t think my spouse would ever dream of claiming he suffered equally. And I don’t think a court of law would find it so either. Or are all cases in court filed this way?

 

[otto]

so you think that Casey Anthony and OJ are innocent?

This is about the Canadian justice system. Law is entirely different than in the USA.

 

[otto]

Sorry if I got shot, stabbed or assaulted I don’t think my spouse would ever dream of claiming he suffered equally. And I don’t think a court of law would find it so either. Or are all cases in court filed this way?

Both Coleman and Boyle were terrorized for 5 years of captivity. I don't think anyone can say that one was more terrorized than the other.

 

[Medstudies]

Both Coleman and Boyle were terrorized for 5 years of captivity. I don't think anyone can say that one was more terrorized than the other.

Nope that’s not what we were discussing. Shifting the goalposts is poor argument. And to say otherwise would just reek of gaslighting

 

[JDG]

Coleman certainly did her best to inflict pain and stress on Boyle! He has been deprived of his children, saddled with huge legal bills and his reputation has been damaged even though he is not guilty on all counts.

I do not think Boyle was found 'not guilty'. The charges were 'dismissed', a totally different thing that can happen for many, varied reasons.

Perhaps there's a legal beagle who can weigh in further on Canadian charges being dismissed.

 

[Lilibet]

Both Coleman and Boyle were terrorized for 5 years of captivity. I don't think anyone can say that one was more terrorized than the other.

I certainly think it can be stated unequivocally that a woman held hostage in Afghanistan by people who have even less respect for women than do western countries, pregnant several times by the man who brought her there, giving birth under awful conditions, etc....is much more terrorized than a man. It’s not a competition, as you seem to think it is. It’s truth, and is a woman’s reality anywhere men view women as less valuable than men...even here in the U.S.