Canadian hostage, wife & children freed from Afghanistan, husband arrested for abuse, Oct 2017 #3

[JDG]

Both Coleman and Boyle were terrorized for 5 years of captivity. I don't think anyone can say that one was more terrorized than the other.

Where is the proof that they were terrorized? They 'said' they were held captive and abused but that is not proof of anything. They could have been spying or been another type of informer. Why did Boyle refuse to accept the American offers to get them out faster? Why did he refuse to land in the USA??

If they had landed in the USA, they would have been debriefed completely and thoroughly. Coming to Canada, not so much or not at all perhaps.

IF its all true, why the reluctance to get out as fast as possible? And lastly, why continue to have children when you are 'being held captive' and do not know your fate??

 

[JDG]

Please remember that Boyles' father is a judge, albeit a tax judge. Ever heard the phrase, its not what you know, its who you know??

They have deep pockets, better lawyers. That all adds up in a court of law.

 

[Satchie]

Rhetorical question: Why is a traumatized woman required to have “consistent” recall of the details of sexual assault and other abuse, but a man is not held to the same standard? Remind me to take contemporaneous notes if I am ever a victim. /sarcasm

Yes, I do understand the need to establish guilt beyond a “reasonable doubt” and that the burden of proof is on the accuser. And I do know that there are men who have been falsely accused. But it seems that, in general, accused men are favored either in verdicts or sentencing (Brock Turner, anyone?).

I can’t help wondering if Caitlyn’s ill-advised press interviews against the judge’s orders were a factor in the verdict.

I've had the thought before, that these cases are so difficult because the abused partner is trying really hard to save or heal the relationship, and so just doesn't adopt the adversarial attitude that the courts expect to see.

It seems you have to first make up your mind that: I'm going to take this person to court, therefore I'll collect evidence and make notes of all our interactions (as you're advised to do in a work situation if you suspect harrassment), I'll keep alert to where my 'loved one' is legally crossing the line into assault, and I'll call the police as soon as that happens.

But if someone is in that state of mind, they're unlikely to be in an abuse situation anyway, they'd probably have left long ago.

And IMO, this would actually be the cold, conniving way of proceeding. Set a trap and wait for him to walk into it and then: snap, put him in jail and take your kids away from him.

The fact is she didn't do that: she didn't call police, HE did.

 

[Medstudies]

I certainly think it can be stated unequivocally that a woman held hostage in Afghanistan by people who have even less respect for women than do western countries, pregnant several times by the man who brought her there, giving birth under awful conditions, etc....is much more terrorized than a man. It’s not a competition, as you seem to think it is. It’s truth, and is a woman’s reality anywhere men view women as less valuable than men...even here in the U.S.

RBBM

yea, is this the pain Olympics?

Someone inbox me to let me know when a man has had a forced abortion or given birth. ...

And when women get equal pay. ...

And when the standard of living is equitable for both genders post divorce.

 

[otto]

Nope that’s not what we were discussing. Shifting the goalposts is poor argument. And to say otherwise would just reek of gaslighting

I don't know what you mean. Coleman was a happy, healthy 27 year old woman who is completely capable of making her own decisions when she decided to go to Europe with Boyle. They were captured, they were tortured, and they survived.

From the trial, we know both were interested in consensual S&M, however Coleman alleges that there was one instance that was not consensual.



Former Taliban hostage insists his American wife ASKED to be beaten with a broom as he denies abuse | Daily Mail Online

 

[human]

I don’t think the verdict matters. She is in the US away from him. The children are with her.

unless his parents did not see, he did not take care of the children. I really doubt at their age that they want to take care of four children.

I doubt if he has money so getting the costly attorneys that would be needed to get the children just so they can watch them does not seem like something his older parents would care to do.

they probably have plenty of money but is that what they want to spend it on?

if they really want to see the grandchildren, perhaps they can arrange visits in the US. Them, not him

 

[otto]

I do not think Boyle was found 'not guilty'. The charges were 'dismissed', a totally different thing that can happen for many, varied reasons.

Perhaps there's a legal beagle who can weigh in further on Canadian charges being dismissed.

Good point. All charges were dismissed.

"Ontario Court Judge Peter Doody on Thursday dismissed all 19 charges against Joshua Boyle, a former hostage of Taliban-linked extremists in Afghanistan.
...

The judge said he did not believe Boyle's version of events, but he also could not accept Coleman's "unconfirmed evidence."

"I do not believe her, just as I do not believe Mr. Boyle."He also raised concerns about Coleman's reliability as a witness due to inconsistencies in testimony and memory lapses."​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/joshua-boyle-caitlan-coleman-verdict-1.5400633

 

[Medstudies]

Where is the proof that they were terrorized? They 'said' they were held captive and abused but that is not proof of anything. They could have been spying or been another type of informer. Why did Boyle refuse to accept the American offers to get them out faster? Why did he refuse to land in the USA??

If they had landed in the USA, they would have been debriefed completely and thoroughly. Coming to Canada, not so much or not at all perhaps.

IF its all true, why the reluctance to get out as fast as possible? And lastly, why continue to have children when you are 'being held captive' and do not know your fate??

I have no way to know but I’m going to guess she was denied contraception. I would imagine SB was aware of this fact. Abstinence would’ve been good. Who’s life was more in peril during gestation? Who had the greater burden and greatest risk?


Not. Equal.

 

[otto]

I certainly think it can be stated unequivocally that a woman held hostage in Afghanistan by people who have even less respect for women than do western countries, pregnant several times by the man who brought her there, giving birth under awful conditions, etc....is much more terrorized than a man. It’s not a competition, as you seem to think it is. It’s truth, and is a woman’s reality anywhere men view women as less valuable than men...even here in the U.S.

I'm not convinced that terrorists give special privileges to male hostages. Men seem to lose their heads quite often during captivity.

 

[otto]

RBBM

yea, is this the pain Olympics?

Someone inbox me to let me know when a man has had a forced abortion or given birth. ...

And when women get equal pay. ...

And when the standard of living is equitable for both genders post divorce.

This was not a situation where Boyle lived with Muslims and his wife was treated poorly, this is more like a James Foley situation where they were lucky to make it out of there alive.

 

[Medstudies]

I don't know what you mean. Coleman was a happy, healthy 27 year old woman who is completely capable of making her own decisions when she decided to go to Europe with Boyle. They were captured, they were tortured, and they survived.

From the trial, we know both were interested in consensual S&M, however Coleman alleges that there was one instance that was not consensual.

View attachment 221473

Former Taliban hostage insists his American wife ASKED to be beaten with a broom as he denies abuse | Daily Mail Online

The courts have determined that Coleman cannot be believed. Are we going to assume that she can be believed, contrary to the verdict, and then impugn Bolye's character on that basis?

Why don't we accept Coleman's statement that her memory is unreliable, and the court's statement that she is an unreliable witness?

Perhaps the questions should be: was she raped? did she miscarry? was there an induced abortion? How many times was she pregnant?

Yea this was what was being discussed.

 

[Stunned]

I certainly think it can be stated unequivocally that a woman held hostage in Afghanistan by people who have even less respect for women than do western countries, pregnant several times by the man who brought her there, giving birth under awful conditions, etc....is much more terrorized than a man. It’s not a competition, as you seem to think it is. It’s truth, and is a woman’s reality anywhere men view women as less valuable than men...even here in the U.S.

Especially IMO, if her husband has no respect or regard for her.

 

[Medstudies]

This was not a situation where Boyle lived with Muslims and his wife was treated poorly, this is more like a James Foley situation where they were lucky to make it out of there alive.

Mmmkkkay.

 

[Lilibet]

Mmmkkkay.

Much better than the “OK Boomer” reply I scrapped.

(Full disclosure...Turning 74 next month, I am among the first of the baby boomers.)

 

[Medstudies]

Much better than the “OK Boomer” reply I scrapped.

(Full disclosure...I am among the first of the baby boomers.)

Haha me too! I’m the other bookend, still a Boom Baby!
and my kids are here and just did a South Park episode.

Anyway maybe you’ve seen this?

 

[otto]

Please remember that Boyles' father is a judge, albeit a tax judge. Ever heard the phrase, its not what you know, its who you know??

They have deep pockets, better lawyers. That all adds up in a court of law.

Canadian law is the same for everyone across the country regardless of wealth. Of note, the law doesn't change from Province to Province as it does from State to State.

Having an experienced lawyer helps, and that can cost more, but that is true everywhere.

 

[Lilibet]

Haha me too! I’m the other bookend, still a Boom Baby!
and my kids are here and just did a South Park episode.

Anyway maybe you’ve seen this?
View attachment 221476

LOL. And you were too polite to say it. I figure only Boomers can get away with saying “OK Boomer” without being insulting. Some of us were born boomers, but don’t think like the stereotype.

I hadn’t seen “The Narcissist’s Prayer”...perfect! But that’s assuming they feel the need to pray.

 

[Medstudies]

LOL. And you were too polite to say it. I figure only Boomers can get away with saying “OK Boomer” without being insulting. Some of us were born boomers, but don’t think like the stereotype.

I hadn’t seen “The Narcissist’s Prayer”...perfect! But that’s assuming they feel the need to pray.

Haha!
And yea, no need to pray when they believe they are god.

 

[otto]

I have no way to know but I’m going to guess she was denied contraception. I would imagine SB was aware of this fact. Abstinence would’ve been good. Who’s life was more in peril during gestation? Who had the greater burden and greatest risk?

Not. Equal.

Do you mean that Coleman and Boyle were denied contraception, or that Coleman was denied contraception but Boyle wasn't?

 

[bears10]

Please remember that Boyles' father is a judge, albeit a tax judge. Ever heard the phrase, its not what you know, its who you know??

They have deep pockets, better lawyers. That all adds up in a court of law.

I’ve been wanting to bring this up since yesterday, but I had to pick my battles. I ABSOLUTELY think his fathers profession was a factor in JB waiving his right to a jury trial. Just my opinion.