Casey & Family Psychological Profile #2

[Broderick]

Thanks for that post!

I wish there were more information to quantify Cindy's parental style into APD. I would like to see any reflections on Cindy's child rearing behavior from people that might have perspective more importantly early on. Did she treat Cayee differently than Casey was treated early on? Likely we will never see any of that. I have seen it said many times, that Casey is similar to her mother, apples don't fall far from the tree, etc. If a family member has had the disorder (especially the parents) it increases the chance of the disorder --- speaks to that observation by many here I think. Genetic? I don't think she was born that way, but cultivated in a sense into an image of her mother. Environment, most likely? Makes me wonder what Cindy's mother is like I guess.....

I had to look up somatize before and I didn't see anything to indicate that. Loosening of the gender roles probably changes things in diagnosis, especially in the last 10 or 15 years perhaps. No doubt from what I see, there doesn't seem to be true ramifications for her behavior in the past and that probably goes way back. She was likely never disciplined normally and I frankly don't view Cindy as all that an affectionate person. Very dominant though. I have always felt kind of sorry for George because he seems like a very beaten man. I think Lee has something to protect like in one of the phone calls he asks Casey if everything is still okay concerning people and things, almost in a type of code speak and she basically says he would obviously know if it wasn't.

 

[Broderick]

We don't know whether she was "fairly normal" in h.s. All we have is: 1) one statement from one teacher stating that she was "shy, quiet, and intelligent." 2) Some statements from classmates that she seemed "bipolar." 3) The sheriff stating that she had a "criminal history." or something to that effect. 4) Rick said that she had been lying, stealing, and enabled for a "long time." He stated that it was the source of a family rift. What's a long time? He did not specify

I would LOVE to know if she had a juvenile record, or history of acting out a a child. Also, exactly how long she has been lying and stealing?

Sociopathy, if that is the case, does not just jump out in adulthood. It starts earlier.

In some children, we have the MacDonald Triad as an ominous warning. but, it seems that that mostly manifests in the worst ones-- like Dahmer.

Well if she was urinating in bed, pulling legs off small animals like a hampster in amusement, or burning down the house that would really seal the deal. I don't know if we will ever find out though.

Come to think of it, she does have a fascination with gas and gas cans. She stole her parents two cans, borrowed another, and had Amy take her to buy one.....

 

[Brini]

I have found out murder by a mother is completely acceptable to believe when it happens so infrequently, say about 200 times a year - but broach the subject of abuse as it might relate to her behavior and the family's shocking behavior and it illicits very strong emotions on the contrary. That issue is far more prevalent in society but by far, more taboo, to discuss. It is only a hypothetical at this point anyway, but I find it filling in gaps and explaining things possibly when we view everyone's behavior in the immediate family all encompassing.

Now, of course, there is proof of one, and no proof of the other so I do understand logically.

Yes, you are exactly right about that last statement.

But, statements such as, "The As did this out of shame," are certainly open to challenge. Or, "GA moved out because he was ashamed of LA," when the family says something else. Or, "KC had nightmares, because she was reliving the crime."

I DO think that family, like most closed system families, are protecting a secret. In some families, the secret is sexual or physical abuse. In many families, it's gambling, alcoholism, adultery, or mental illness. In mine, it was alcoholism.

It's not always incest. I think in the A's case, it's the lies and theft, and maybe the sociopathy itself.

MOO

 

[Brini]

I wish there were more information to quantify Cindy's parental style into APD. I would like to see any reflections on Cindy's child rearing behavior from people that might have perspective more importantly early on. Did she treat Cayee differently than Casey was treated early on? Likely we will never see any of that. I have seen it said many times, that Casey is similar to her mother, apples don't fall far from the tree, etc. If a family member has had the disorder (especially the parents) it increases the chance of the disorder --- speaks to that observation by many here I think. Genetic? I don't think she was born that way, but cultivated in a sense into an image of her mother. Environment, most likely? Makes me wonder what Cindy's mother is like I guess.....

I had to look up somatize before and I didn't see anything to indicate that. Loosening of the gender roles probably changes things in diagnosis, especially in the last 10 or 15 years perhaps. No doubt from what I see, there doesn't seem to be true ramifications for her behavior in the past and that probably goes way back. She was likely never disciplined normally and I frankly don't view Cindy as all that an affectionate person. Very dominant though. I have always felt kind of sorry for George because he seems like a very beaten man. I think Lee has something to protect like in one of the phone calls he asks Casey if everything is still okay concerning people and things, almost in a type of code speak and she basically says he would obviously know if it wasn't.

I would be enlightening to know about CAs Mom's parenting, and more about CA's parenting. And, of course, about KC's childhood bx.

Tell ya something... I wouldn't want CA as my nurse, either.

 

[Brini]

Well if she was urinating in bed, pulling legs off small animals like a hampster in amusement, or burning down the house that would really seal the deal. I don't know if we will ever find out though.

Come to think of it, she does have a fascination with gas and gas cans. She stole her parents two cans, borrowed another, and had Amy take her to buy one.....

Yes, there is that.

 

[Broderick]

Yes, you are exactly right about that last statement.

But, statements such as, "The As did this out of shame," are certainly open to challenge. Or, "GA moved out because he was ashamed of LA," when the family says something else. Or, "KC had nightmares, because she was reliving the crime."

I DO think that family, like most closed system families, are protecting a secret. In some families, the secret is sexual or physical abuse. In many families, it's gambling, alcoholism, adultery, or mental illness. In mine, it was alcoholism.

It's not always incest. I think in the A's case, it's the lies and theft, and maybe the sociopathy itself.

MOO

I think incest is likely not the norm, but to the degree of what they are protecting and how if you are right seems excessive. It would seem to be more than just alcohol abuse they are protecting for instance. I do believe there is credence to the theory I have read that Cindy is protecting Casey because she doesn't want herself, in a narcissistic pattern, to be blamed for Casey's failure and Caylee's ultimate demise. She would have to accept that she failed, and Cindy seems incapable of that.

 

[Broderick]

I would be enlightening to know about CAs Mom's parenting, and more about CA's parenting. And, of course, about KC's childhood bx.

Tell ya something... I wouldn't want CA as my nurse, either.

Ohhh, boy is that an understatement. I completely agree.

 

[Recovering-Lurker]

That's FUNNY! LOL!

I don't get it. :waitasec:

 

[OneLostGrl]

I don't get it. :waitasec:

I do..

 

[aprilshowers]

I just came across this online, thought it was interesting:

In my experience as a counselor for 40 years, I have found that love addiction and approval addiction are far more prevalent than any other substance or process addictions. We live in a love-addicted, approval-addicted society.

What does it mean to be love/approval addicted? Below is a checklist for you to see if you are addicted to love and/or approval. Believing any of these may indicate love or approval addiction.
I believe that:

* My happiness and wellbeing are depended upon getting love from another person.
* My adequacy, lovability, and feelings of self-worth and self-esteem come from others liking me and approving of me.
* Others disapproval or rejection mean that I’m not good enough.
* I can’t make myself happy.
* I can’t make myself as happy as someone else can.
* My best feelings come from outside myself, from how other people or a particular other person sees me and treats me.
* Others are responsible for my feelings. Therefore, if someone cares about me, he or she will never do anything that hurts or upsets me.
* I can’t be alone. I feel like I’ll die if I’m alone.
* When I’m hurt or upset, it’s someone else’s fault.
* It’s up to other people to make me feel good about myself by approving of me.
* I’m not responsible for my feelings. Other people make me feel happy, sad, angry, frustrated, shut down, or depressed. When I’m angry, someone makes me feel that way and is responsible for fixing my feelings.
* I’m not responsible for my behavior. Other people make me yell, act crazy, get sick, laugh, cry, get violent, leave, or fail.
* Others are selfish if they do what they want instead of what I want or need.
* If I’m not connected to someone, I will die.
* I can’t handle my pain, especially the pain of disapproval, rejection, abandonment, the pain of being shut out - the pain of isolation and loneliness.

Living as a love or approval addict is a very hard way to live. You have to constantly make sure you say the right thing, do the right, and look right in order to get the needed love and approval. Your feelings are on a roller coaster – from feeling the wonderful feelings that come from getting your love or approval “fix” to feeling the despair that comes when your “supply” – the source of your love and approval - shuts down, gets angry or judgmental, or goes away.

Sounds like KC huh? Sorry, didn't bookmark the source.

 

[aprilshowers]

Some interesting reading:

The Sociopath Next Door - The Ruthless Versus Us


http://www.buy.com/prod/sociopath-n...versus-the-rest-of-us/q/loc/106/31179027.html

http://www.tellinitlikeitis.net/2007/03/the-sociopath-next-door-the-ruthless-versus-us.html

 

[tiredofthis]

I would be enlightening to know about CAs Mom's parenting, and more about CA's parenting. And, of course, about KC's childhood bx.

Tell ya something... I wouldn't want CA as my nurse, either.

Can you picture CA standing at your bedside and giving you drugs...Cough...I mean meds? That is enough to send chills down your spine!

 

[OneLostGrl]

Some interesting reading:

The Sociopath Next Door - The Ruthless Versus Us


http://www.buy.com/prod/sociopath-n...versus-the-rest-of-us/q/loc/106/31179027.html

http://www.tellinitlikeitis.net/2007/03/the-sociopath-next-door-the-ruthless-versus-us.html

thanks for the links

 

[shadowraiths]

I put forth this question on some other threads here and sorry if it has already been addressed. I can really see the defense trying to get her ruled insane by undiagnosed post-partum psychosis; to favorably compound the issue, they could cite the miscarriage she told her friend about at the party.

I highly doubt she was suffering from any sort of psychosis, as symptomology tends to be very pronounced and noticeable. By noticeable, here, for example is a transcribed letter (with identifying information redacted) written a couple of decades ago by an individual who was experiencing a full blown psychosis.

The attorney who received the letter consulted with the prison psychologist, wondering if it was "authentic." As it turned out, this individual was a dx'd schizophrenic well before the crime that sent her to Atascadero. In short, she exhibited the Schneiderian first rank symptoms (i.e., positive symptoms), which is what most of the general public is familiar with when it comes to schizophrenia. The negative symptoms (i.e., lack of affect, paucity of speech, etc) are, of course, tougher to detect, when it comes to this very tragic disorder. However, even those are noticeable enough to raise red flags. Though, they still, very rarely constitute "legal insanity."

That being said. KC underwent two psych evals, the prosecution had access to whatever medical and/or legal juvenile records that exist, and they still proceeded to bring this case before the grand jury. This, imho, very strongly suggests there were no glaring psychological anomalies in KC's background to indicate a pre-existing severe psychological disorder (i.e., post partum psychosis).

 

[sharpar]

Mental illness doesnt mean you are legally insane . Different criteria
for each condition.

 

[Brini]

Can you picture CA standing at your bedside and giving you drugs...Cough...I mean meds? That is enough to send chills down your spine!

Standing... smiling..... filled hypodermic syringe poised....

 

[Brini]

Ohhh, boy is that an understatement. I completely agree.

Nurse Ratched!

 

[Brini]

I think incest is likely not the norm, but to the degree of what they are protecting and how if you are right seems excessive. It would seem to be more than just alcohol abuse they are protecting for instance. I do believe there is credence to the theory I have read that Cindy is protecting Casey because she doesn't want herself, in a narcissistic pattern, to be blamed for Casey's failure and Caylee's ultimate demise. She would have to accept that she failed, and Cindy seems incapable of that.

I think your last sentence just NAILED it!

 

[kaRN]

:crazy:

Its not personal at all - dont get your feathers ruffled -

I doubt the incest too - for a variety of reasons -

persons afflicted with personality disorders often seem to be
cookie cutter cut outs - to a startling remarkable degree .

Once you know one of them - you know all of them
even with variations and accessories

Borderlines say and do the very same things that other borderlines
say or do . Once you have been betrayed used and abused by one
you tend to recognize the red flags pretty quickly .

I can spot a wingnut at 50 paces -------

Poor Amy learned some hard lessons but I guarantee you she will recognize the next one who tries to snuggle up to her pocketbook .

Too bad Cindy with all her alleged Nursing background, couldn't spot her own wingnut from 50 paces. But wait, she doesn't recognize it when she stares at her own face in the mirror. Never mind

 

[karenmamo]

I have found out murder by a mother is completely acceptable to believe when it happens so infrequently, say about 200 times a year - but broach the subject of abuse as it might relate to her behavior and the family's shocking behavior and it illicits very strong emotions on the contrary. That issue is far more prevalent in society but by far, more taboo, to discuss. It is only a hypothetical at this point anyway, but I find it filling in gaps and explaining things possibly when we view everyone's behavior in the immediate family all encompassing.

Now, of course, there is proof of one, and no proof of the other so I do understand logically.

Count me as one who thinks daddy IS LA .