Casey & Family Psychological Profile #5

[azwriter]

My daughter was Dx'd with Boarderline Personality Disorder when she was 23. I think one of the reasons it was so difficult was she was such an exceptional
child. When she was 5 she wanted to donate her favorite doll to a family who had lost everything in a fire, she didn't know the family, this was just the way she was.

Her behavior started to change when she was 21 and the last 8 years have been difficult. But I made a decision a few years ago, I will not be manipulated by her. I can completely understand how CA got where she is today, but the fact that she allows it to continue is beyond me.

I'm sure their lives were h*ll long before 6-16, but where it has lead them all to, none of us should ever imagine.

You and MYBROKENWING are to be admired for your bravery!

 

[kaelieanne]

Right around the time that she announced:
"I am a nurse of decomposition".
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What on earth did she mean by that?

 

[magic-cat]

I have 2 sociopathic children and I've seen and heard it all before - the tears, the terror, the horror, the need - the acting.

My opinion only.

Have both of the children been diagnosed as such? if you don't mind me asking? and if so, at what point in their lives did you notice things were not quite right?

 

[kaelieanne]

I saw that show also and I couldn't believe it. She had this angry expression on her face and all she could talk about was her lack of sleep. I disliked her from that day forward. In think at the end of the interview she said something to the effect that "if I get sleep, I will come back and talk to you another time".
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I missed this. Does anyone have a link for this? TIA

 

[kaelieanne]

Chilly, do you know anybody that's completely normal ?
I've been racking my brain and can't think of one person I know that doesn't have some kind of issue.
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ITA And the older I get, the more I realize that everyone of us is from dysfunctional homes. To a greater or lesser degree..

 

[kaelieanne]

I have 2 sociopathic children and I've seen and heard it all before - the tears, the terror, the horror, the need - the acting.

My heart definitely goes out to you, Blackwatch! I'm sure it hasn't been easy for you. Do you have any understanding of how they became this way? Was it something that happened in their lives, or is that the way they just are?

 

[kaelieanne]

Granted George mows the lawn, takes
care of the cars, etc. But still it appears he has been the absent father/husband emotionally,

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Having been married to a very controlling person, I can understand George's predicament. How could he be involved when Cindy wore the pants and told everyone what to do and how to do it?! There comes a time when you just give up and let them run the show. (My opinion)

 

[magic-cat]

Those first interviews she started doing that's the first things she would say. It was all about CA grandma. "I'm tired, I haven't slept, I haven't eaten, I can't think straight" over and over on every interview and even during her interview with LE she said that. She sounds so much like her daughter, honestly...I see what KC is the way she is. She a carbon copy of her mom. As I was reading AH police reports about the check KC cashed at the bank I was thinking that the money CA took out of KC's wallet wasn't hers to take. It was most likely AH's.

Considering that the check was cashed on what, the 15th of July and they captured her on the 15th of July, then Cindy has just stolen the money that Casey stole from Amy...one does not make the other better or worse, but they are the same crime to me...

 

[Advocate4]

I have a question -- if a sociopath doesn't have a conscience, doesn't have the ability to FEEL things (love, etc.), then how can they be found guilty of something like murder? If there is no moral compass, to the point where they can murder someone (even a family member) without feeling anything, then they would only be covering up such a murder because they realize that "others don't like murder", and not because they themselves FEEL that murder is wrong. Right? I don't understand how society can hold them accountable under such circumstances. It may not be a mental illness as such, but there is definitely something wrong with them and it sounds like this crops up often in young childhood, teen years, etc.

How could Cindy know what to do with Casey? She probably looked to the future in some reasonable hope that maturity would bring responsibility and accountability to Casey. Many parents have that situation with children, teens, and usually it works out fine and the child eventually emerges as a decent human being.

ETA: I know a lot about PTSD, and one of the facts is that over time, other family members will develop emotional illness issues of their own due to the constant coping with the PTSD issues of one member. Could it be the same with families of sociopaths, that over time they develop emotional/personality issues of their own out of the stress and circumstances of living with someone who is "not right"?

 

[magic-cat]

Now is the time to stop taking your daughter at face value. Don't keep ignoring the signs! Don't keep excusing her manipulation of you. Make sure she is held responsible for her choices and the outcome of those choices from this day forward. When that baby comes, make her be that baby's mother! Don't babysit every weekend so she can "go be a teenager"- she isn't a "teenager" anymore- she made a choice (to have sex and to have a child) and she is now a mother. Deal with it! I imagine you had to, right?

Choices, consequences.

Someone has to love them enough to let 'em go, to step back and start letting them live their life by themself. They don't need momma to do it anymore. We need to learn how to clean up our own messes, be held accountable, it's character and self-esteem building. It's helps us to grow, to learn, to feel good about ourselves. We learn that life is hard but we make it through and that's helps to build a person!

Granted, your children may be mad at you or might not want to be your buddy but you are contributing to his/her healthy personality. The phrase "This is gonna hurt me more than it hurts you" is sometimes true. Sometimes we have to leave our children in bad situations, regardless of how much it hurts to do so, so they can bail themselves out and learn from it.

Now that you noticed these behaviors, do not look away from them, do not allow yourself to ignore them (I promise you will be tempted to) because they could worsen after the birth, mainly the manipulation if you allow the behaviors to continue.

I wish you much luck! :blowkiss:

Truer words were never spoken! I am always telling my teens when they are furious at me, "Then I must be doing something right" or "That's my job"...and it is HARD, but it is a war worth fighting if it can help them to grow into stable and productive people...

 

[magic-cat]

My mom has Borderline Personality Disorder and I can tell you that the DSM-V criteria is a very small description and does not nearly give the depth & complexity of the disorder, nor does it show the physchological impact on family members who have lived with a person with BPD. My mom is very low functioning, she has never had a job or learned how to drive. She abandoned her children with no contact for years. Personally I don't think that Casey Anthony has BPD, I would be more apt to lean towards Casey being a psychopath.

My mom though, like Casey is a liar extradorinaire. This isn't the run of the mill lying that most people have come up against every now and then. This is lying of a totally different caliber. When you deal with a person on a day to day basis that lies, it is very wearing. You cannot get them to tell the truth. Sometimes when I am up to playing the game, I will call her on her a lie just to aggravate her, but most of the time I just let it go, it is a no win situation.

You read the transcript where Yuri is interviewing Casey and you can see there is no fear, no embarassment, no humiliation. You cannot use ordinary methods to get them to tell the truth. Yuri is intelligent and experienced, but even if that interview had lasted for 24 hours, Casey would be able to keep up the lies longer than Yuri could the interview. So, one could well understand Cindy knowing perfectly well the past few years that Casey has
been lying about this or that and not up to the impossible struggle of getting the truth.

I find the relationship between Cindy and Casey morbidly fascinating.
But, I just can't seem to get a grasp on Cindy. In the 911 calls she seem to display authentic panic & pain over Caylee, and also able to call a spade a spade went it came to Casey. But then came the turn and I cannot figure that out.

However, I have been wondering if some of the lies, coverups, etc. have more to do with George than Casey. Someone would be hard pressed to convince me that any man could remember what a little girl was wearing 30 days ago with such detail. My husband wouldn't even be able to remember what our daughter was wearing today. Which leads me to believe he wasn't even home that morning. Granted George mows the lawn, takes
care of the cars, etc. But still it appears he has been the absent father/husband emotionally, I wouldn't be suprised if Cindy had discovered some infidelity on George's part during all this and he is bound to her for the time being out of guilt.

Casey is almost easier to figure out than Cindy.

Perhaps the outfit decribed is the one she was buried in and the info was either relayed TO him or he saw it because he was there...THAT would certainly burn into the memory banks for all of eternity, right down to the shoes...imagine if it was the last time he KNEW he would ever see her and he may have had a cause to memorize her clothes...

I am back and forth on George...I just don't know anymore.:banghead:

 

[magic-cat]

Unfortunately, you have to make the decision...family member or no family member...it's either you or them...cause they'll take you down given half the chance. The best thing (mental health wise) is to walk away.

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!! This is it in a nutshell, walk away from the PSYCHOS and make a new SANE family even if you have to piece it together from strangers...

 

[magic-cat]

No it is not insanity but a personality disorder.

It may well be an insane personality disorder...and I am speaking from hard core raelity and living it...Yes, it is a personality disorder, and if left unchecked it leads to an utterly and completely insane individual who is capable of hiding it from the "outside" world...

 

[magic-cat]

I have a question -- if a sociopath doesn't have a conscience, doesn't have the ability to FEEL things (love, etc.), then how can they be found guilty of something like murder? If there is no moral compass, to the point where they can murder someone (even a family member) without feeling anything, then they would only be covering up such a murder because they realize that "others don't like murder", and not because they themselves FEEL that murder is wrong. Right? I don't understand how society can hold them accountable under such circumstances. It may not be a mental illness as such, but there is definitely something wrong with them and it sounds like this crops up often in young childhood, teen years, etc.

How could Cindy know what to do with Casey? She probably looked to the future in some reasonable hope that maturity would bring responsibility and accountability to Casey. Many parents have that situation with children, teens, and usually it works out fine and the child eventually emerges as a decent human being.

ETA: I know a lot about PTSD, and one of the facts is that over time, other family members will develop emotional illness issues of their own due to the constant coping with the PTSD issues of one member. Could it be the same with families of sociopaths, that over time they develop emotional/personality issues of their own out of the stress and circumstances of living with someone who is "not right"?

Society holds them accountable because although they do not "feel" the appropriate range of emotions, they are perfectly well able to determine what is a legal and an illegal act, and in participating in an illegal act, they are fully responsible, having full faculties to know the difference whether or not they feel the difference...

 

[OneLostGrl]

Thanks for the hugs closetobeingfoundgirl! lol...I follow your posts and enjoy them very much and I admire what YOU have overcome and think you are on the right track now and although it is difficult, I believe you are not going to stay lost forever...YOU will find you...

Aaaw- that's very sweet of you, thanks!

 

[BonKai]

Cindy maybe acting out in ways we don't like, but I still think she is greiving. This is her way of doing it I guess. I think she is trying so hard to get the public to believe her story and it simply isn't working. She is only making herself look bad. I do feel for her.. I really do. Who wants to believe that your own daughter is a killer. Who wants to believe that your daugher killed your grandchild.. Casey has told so many lies that it must be heartbreaking to her parents to hear. Everything Casey has done in the past year is now on public display. I'm sure her parents are not to happy with what is out there about their daughter. I'm sure deep in her heart she is really angry at Casey. I think she is misplacing this anger.

This whole familys life has been turned upside down all because of ONE PERSON.. THEIR DAUGHTER/SISTER who is trying her hardest to protect her own and could care less about who she is dragging into it.. :banghead:

I agree with everything you said; however, there comes a time when you have to stop enabling your daughter/sister. I believe Cindy had gotten to that point on 7/15 when she called LE about Casey's stealing from her. At this point, Cindy did not know that Caylee was "missing". After she found out, she pretty much lost it.

I don't know if Cindy is mentally ill, but I do believe she has control issues. Her grand daughter is missing, presumed dead, and now she wants to save her daughter. She is still enabling.

 

[BonKai]

Thanks for providing that link. Although I had seen it before, I watched it again. It is priceless. Cindy at her most confused. Did you notice the expression on George's face, he looked at her like she was an alien.

I do feel bad for George.

 

[Dutchie Treat]

I agree with everything you said; however, there comes a time when you have to stop enabling your daughter/sister. I believe Cindy had gotten to that point on 7/15 when she called LE about Casey's stealing from her. At this point, Cindy did not know that Caylee was "missing". After she found out, she pretty much lost it.

I don't know if Cindy is mentally ill, but I do believe she has control issues. Her grand daughter is missing, presumed dead, and now she wants to save her daughter. She is still enabling.

I agree. I think that once Cindy realized that Caylee was dead (which she must have considering the blatant clues) for some reason she figured that she can't save Caylee so she will save KC. (and herself and GA in the process) It's almost like her control issue got the better of her and it was easier for her to have something she could influence than have to face the realization that she had raised and been living with a sociopath daughter whom she obviously did not know as well as she thought. I'm surprised after following this that CA and/or GA are still living. If KC had gone after CA I wouldn't have been surprised either.

Did she suddenly become frightened of KC? Is she enabling her out of fear? Thoughts, sleuths???

 

[dcorrigano]

I agree with everything you said; however, there comes a time when you have to stop enabling your daughter/sister. I believe Cindy had gotten to that point on 7/15 when she called LE about Casey's stealing from her. At this point, Cindy did not know that Caylee was "missing". After she found out, she pretty much lost it.

I don't know if Cindy is mentally ill, but I do believe she has control issues. Her grand daughter is missing, presumed dead, and now she wants to save her daughter. She is still enabling.

I dont think CA is mentally ill, I think she has lost her mind from dealing for 22 years with a sociopath. Ive dealt with one up close and personal, a direct family member. So I know what it does to your psychy. You cant seperate the unconditional love you have for them and the fact that the only way to deal with them is NO contact at all. Its an impossible decision to make. I think Cindy was well on her way to no contact when she called the police to have her arrested for stealing the car, cks cc etc. and KC knew it. That's why KC was setting up new targets to feed her.

From my own personal experience, I can tell you I spent many years trying to be better at everything, constantly seeking approval, and always thought if I were the best this person would love me, if only I did more. The harder I worked toward this the more I was used and put down. I literally ended up in a psych ward, cause I felt so useless and stupid. It wasnt until I just gave up on this person and said ya know what, Im going to be the best me I can be for me and not you. Im going to do what I know is right, regardless of you, and Im going to take care of me and screw you. The sociopath walked out of my life, I changed all my numbers never to hear from him again. I was no longer feeding into the "game".

So is CA insane, oh yeah definately... I know what she is thinking, she needs to stand up for herself, say its all about me now and turn her back on KC. but unconditional love is a tough thing to break and it is driving her completely crazy.....

 

[BetsyB]

Did anyone see Oprah a couple days ago?

The guest was a man, Kent Whitaker, who was shot, along with his wife and two sons. His wife and one son died. He's written a book, "Murder by Family," about forgiving the surviving son, who was the mastermind behind the murders.

His son is a sociopath. Apparently, his son has written a portion of the book about what it is like to be him. The son basically said he is a shell of a person and feels nothing on the inside.

This son had lied for years. When the family was shot, they were returning from a celebration of his college graduation. Turns out, he hadn't even finished freshman year.

I thought a lot about Casey Anthony and her lies. I thought about what it would be like to be a parent of a child who tells fantastic lie after fantastic lie. It must be heartbreaking to find out your child is empty.

I grew up with a sociopath for a parent. One of my nephews, also raised in the household, is a sociopath as well. The family dynamics are perplexing, even when I stand outside of the situation with several years' distance between me and them. I still fully expect to get news that one of them has killed the other, or other family members. I simply don't intend to be around for that eventuality. (There's no help to be found; neither is incompetent, there is no treatment, and law enforcement can't do anything until a crime is committed.) Neither knows where I live.

Sociopathy--antisocial personality disorder--is a personality disorder, not psychosis. It does not mitigate responsibility. The sociopath knows full well when his/her actions are socially unacceptable. The sociopath understands consequences completely. The sociopath chooses his actions with full understanding of rules, regulations, and laws.

There's no delusion--the sociopath is grounded in reality. (There may be fantasies, but they differ from delusion.)

HOWEVER--sociopathy can have comorbidities that segue into the land of diminished responsibility. A sociopath, like any other member of the human race, can have other mental illnesses that mitigate responsibility. The sociopath, like any other human, can become legally insane.

When she does however, her actions become disordered. Psychotic sociopaths are not able to plan, to plot, to plan, to conceal.

Cindy Anthony may or may not be personality-disordered. I personally believe that her behavior is the result of living with a sociopath rather than the other way around. (Living with one is crazy-making---it is a tremendous emotional strain.) I don't really see the hallmark lack of conscience in her--she seems to be more desperate than anything else. I think her comment that she'd already "lost one" and didn't want to "lose another" pretty much sums up where her head is at the moment. Her world is falling apart---and guilt that she could have intervened in a meaningful way to prevent this outcome is what I think is likely fueling any psychopathology we're seeing right now.

She may indeed be domineering. She may indeed be a control freak. Living with a sociopath makes one grasp at whatever control one can find, however---it's a coping mechanism, not an illness.

Her daughter? Without a doubt personality-disordered. Disordered to the point of unspeakable evil and lack of conscience.