Casey & Family Psychological Profile #8

[Friday]

Friday, I am right with you on GA.

Do you also believe the suicide attempt was not real?

I actually started to giggle as I read your question. No, I do not believe for a moment it was real. I think he was jealous of Cindy's mutual-admiration-society relationship with George Casey, so GA got miffed and took himself off to a motel (texting them all the way) where he registered under his own name. (Easier for the proprietor to call the police when news of GA's disappearance was broadcast) LOL.

To facilitate his "suicide," he brought along some beer (or was it liquor?) and a couple bottles of thyroid pills or something virtually harmless. Leaving his gun behind, he then sat in his motel room, drinking a little, and unhurriedly composing an 8 page suicide note. (That must be a record for length of a suicide note). In that note he claimed he was going to kill himself "because he couldn't protect his family." (Killing onesself being a better way to protect one's embattled family?) and hoping his wife found a better mate (George Anthony, perhaps?).

IMO: A pathetic, selfish, dramatic, disgusting attempt at grandstanding and evoking the pitying regret of CA, GA, and an entire nation. To my everlasting embarrassment, I fell for it--hook, line, and sinker for about one week.

 

[maswondering2]

I honest think George wanted to commit sucide...but wanted the attention more. so lets make it LOOK like sucide attempt.I think he was honestly wanting ot be with his dear Cayleeand away from CA Bull....but not brave enough to do it!

 

[essies]

I actually started to giggle as I read your question. No, I do not believe for a moment it was real. I think he was jealous of Cindy's mutual-admiration-society relationship with George Casey, so GA got miffed and took himself off to a motel (texting them all the way) where he registered under his own name. (Easier for the proprietor to call the police when news of GA's disappearance was broadcast) LOL.

To facilitate his "suicide," he brought along some beer (or was it liquor?) and a couple bottles of thyroid pills or something virtually harmless. Leaving his gun behind, he then sat in his motel room, drinking a little, and unhurriedly composing an 8 page suicide note. (That must be a record for length of a suicide note). In that note he claimed he was going to kill himself "because he couldn't protect his family." (Killing onesself being a better way to protect one's embattled family?) and hoping his wife found a better mate (George Anthony, perhaps?).

IMO: A pathetic, selfish, dramatic, disgusting attempt at grandstanding and evoking the pitying regret of CA, GA, and an entire nation. To my everlasting embarrassment, I fell for it--hook, line, and sinker for about one week.

Don't forget stopping for pizza! And I believe he even asked the guy at the motel where to go for a good pizza!

 

[NocturnalLady]

I am not convinced Casey knows.

The amount of people that knew about the family secrets (the lying, the stealing, the brawling, the money problems) they don't seem like a cohesive secret keeping group. And if Cindy actually knew who this man was she would have tossed him right under the same bus she tried to shove Jesse Grund in front of.

BBM.

That's for sure.

 

[NocturnalLady]

We have no evidence, whatever, of incest in the A family. Some people opined that Caylee was Lee's baby. The FBI proved otherwise.

And, the mods decided that incest discussions belong in the Parking Lot. So, please take it there. Thanks.

BTW-- Your personal verdict is one thing.*The legal definition of insane is another.

Unfortunately, we are stuck with the law, rather than personal opinion.

BHTW-- ALL closed-system families behave as though they have terrible secrets. Mine did. The "secret" was pretty mundane, and did not involve incest.

BBM.

Very, very true statement. I think that is something that is very hard for people who don't have experience with those family dynamics to understand. You have to picture a fire that feeds on itself and grows bigger and bigger until it's out of control. It almost doesn't matter what the original "secret"/spark may be. It's the emeshment and attempts to control ever aspect of interaction that cause the fire to explode.

 

[NocturnalLady]

I agree and have really given up on Casey's thought process.
The part of the pregnancy denial that interest me is Cindy.
They weren't acknowledging the pregnancy in public. They hadn't decorated the nursery. So either Cindy was operating under the baby is being given up for adoption and we are just going to deny any of this ever happened OR she had a plan for how to explain the sudden appearance of a baby a couple of months later. Was she going to tell people her and George adopted a newborn? Well, you guys were right, Casey was pregnant, silly me?

And George just standing by and letting this little charade go down. I know it is because George is seen as a sympathetic figure, a victim of Cindy, but he makes me absolutely insane. He is such a contributor to this family pathology. He is a crucial and required piece of the puzzle. And every bit as pathological as Cindy and Casey. He just wraps it up in a more palatable package than the pitbull does.

BBM.

:clap: You got it sista.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Will someone please tell me what proof we have that Casey had multiple sex partners in her teens.
That keeps coming up and my gut says: NO jmo

Well we don't need proof, we only need common sense. It's Casey we're talking about here, of course she was promiscuous. I'd rather hear what proof we have that she was not sleeping around and then suddenly "something changed" and she was suddenly a party girl. She just had to hide that stuff as a teenager, but as a young adult, she had cart blanche.

 

[impatientredhead]

Well we don't need proof, we only need common sense. It's Casey we're talking about here, of course she was promiscuous. I'd rather hear what proof we have that she was not sleeping around and then suddenly "something changed" and she was suddenly a party girl. She just had to hide that stuff as a teenager, but as a young adult, she had cart blanche.

First let me say that I am not judging her sexual behavior. I question her motives for it, but I do not judge her for it.

None of her high school friends said anything about being surprised she was pregnant.

A couple stated it was a one night stand. Again didn't say that was out of character.

She started sleeping with Jesse in December and was only a couple months pregnant at the time. So we know there were partners before Jesse.

Jesse's Dad was aware of a couple of people she was with during said engagement.

Caylee wasn't three yet and somewhere in that three years she was with Jesse, Tony, Tony R, Ricardo, Brandon, and I am sure I a missing someone....

The way she was off and on with Jesse between boyfriends and the way she had William teed up as soon as Tony was away for a long WEEKEND tells me she is not comfortable being without a male suitor.

 

[countzero]

Kids KCs age back in high school were having sex when they were in jr high or younger no doubt. They were having regular sex, oral & everything else sex. It's not an activity they consider abnormal. So of course they aren't going to say it's abnormal.

Knowing what I have learned about the A clan CA probably had "the talk" with KC. She either foollowed or irgnored it.

 

[Hollys G-mom]

As far as the incest theory, this was a 20 year old woman, right? All she had to do to get away from family abuse/incest was to get a job and move out.
Instead she pretended to have a job and stayed with the family, bringing her own child into it.

This is why I have problems with the incest theory. Though, who knows. This whole thing is too bizzare.

Enboldened by me: I understand how someone would draw that conclusion, but you must understand that once someone has been A: Conditioned to that type and degree of disfunction and B: learned to pretend reality is not real to that degree...once you magically turn 18, the disfunction doesn't just magically disappear. It takes years of re-training and earnest desire to change to go from being that "damaged" to "normal" thinking patterns. The Psych profession calls it "Stinkin Thinkin". In other words, once you have been trained to lie about EVERYTHING, it's hard to change and confront. It's especially hard for a young person to be able to move out on thier own these days, much less a single mother, without a father in tow to help with the bills and if she doesn't name someone, then no HRS money or medicaid, nor free housing or food stamps. Well, eventually, but it is a process. I've had relatives who just refuse to name a father so they could chit them out of visitation or paternal rights, from the get go.
Also when a person is denied the right to have say so over thier own body growing up, as in many sexual abuse cases, you have a perverted sense of self. There is the juxstaposition of what you're taught at school and/or church : Everyone is special, wonderfull, talented, ect positive re-enforcement and what an abuse victim learns at home: You're worthless, dirty, filthy, evil, stupid, slow, dumb, ect negative re-enforcements. Thus you end trying to live up to "normal" peoples standard they hold for themselves, but there are still very weak boundaries. Easily persuaded, especially sexually. I mean was down right taught that my job in life was to sexually satisfy men, and for years even though a part of me knew that wasn't true, I still found it hard to draw the line with people, on many issues. I think this is why she seems to be so slutty to everyone. For KC sex is a tool, and possibly the sharpest one. Children start learning manipulation from the cradle. If you're raised by master manipulators, and KC was, then she was perfecting her skills at 2. Sorry if I got OT.

 

[texaslb218]

snipped...From Friday;s post, but the quote color disappeared. Sorry, Friday

IMO: A pathetic, selfish, dramatic, disgusting attempt at grandstanding and evoking the pitying regret of CA, GA, and an entire nation. To my everlasting embarrassment, I fell for it--hook, line, and sinker for about one week.[/quote]

IMO below

Yes, Yes, and YES!!! I believe he was embarrassed, emasculated, and potentially losing his meal ticket.

 

[Hollys G-mom]

We also have no evidence, whatsoever, that KC was raped, or that "something traumatic" happened. per Ryan and Amy, KC was always pretty much a liar, manipulator and a sneak. And, Ryan knew her from age five. Amy and KC decided to "dump" their virginity at the same time. KC went whole hog.

Would Drew Peterson or Scott Peterson have to have been victims of a sexual crime? How about Diane Downs? It's all the same personality disorder, and it's all about murder of kids/wives.

Bold by me: Very likely....

BTW-- KC wasn't trapped. She had the legal choice. CA could not have forced anything. The law was on KC's side, and she knew it. She also had the choice to have an abortion, early on, at Planned Parenthood. Her folks would never have known.

Like it or not, KC is not a victim. She is a victimizer. A chronic liar, thief, and murderess.

WOW! I realize what murderers do is not OK but I can still appreciate what contributing factors got them there as well as try to be objective about how trauma really affects people. Also the stats on sexual abuse victims victimizing others is 1:2. That's right folks, if you're unlucky enough to have something of this caliber happen to you at a tender age there is a 50/50 shot you will victimize others. Not only that, if you don't claw, scratch, and dig yourself out of the mire and better yourself and your mental health...then you get NO SYMPATHY. wow.

 

[PrintGal]

I have followed all of these psych threads with great interest, and though I agreed that Casey showed all the signs of being a sociopath, it was difficult for me to grasp the totality of what that meant until I read a fictional account of another female sociopath that I better understood the behavior (In the Woods by Tana French, OK read, the portrayal of the sociopathic characters however was extremely edifying). I have never encountered anyone quite like Casey, sure I know people who are narcissists and have other personality disorders but I am fairly certain I have never encountered a true sociopath (at 23 I'm sure there is plenty of time for that). I think it this is why is was difficult for me, and remains difficult for others to understand how and why Casey acts as she does without any other underlying clinical or psychological reason for her behavior.

Check out "The Sociopath Next Door" by Dr. Martha Stout. It is a fascinating and insightful read. Chances are huge you HAVE encountered a true sociopath (apparently approximately 4 in 100 people are sociopaths) and just didn't know it. Dr. Stout wrote that when people ask her how to recognize them to be wary of people who try to engage your pity. Sociopaths know that much will be excused of someone whom we pity. I am sure Ton-EE got an earful about how awful her parents were to her and so on right from the beginning.

 

[Searchfortruth]

Enboldened by me: I understand how someone would draw that conclusion, but you must understand that once someone has been A: Conditioned to that type and degree of disfunction and B: learned to pretend reality is not real to that degree...once you magically turn 18, the disfunction doesn't just magically disappear. It takes years of re-training and earnest desire to change to go from being that "damaged" to "normal" thinking patterns. The Psych profession calls it "Stinkin Thinkin". In other words, once you have been trained to lie about EVERYTHING, it's hard to change and confront. It's especially hard for a young person to be able to move out on thier own these days, much less a single mother, without a father in tow to help with the bills and if she doesn't name someone, then no HRS money or medicaid, nor free housing or food stamps. Well, eventually, but it is a process. I've had relatives who just refuse to name a father so they could chit them out of visitation or paternal rights, from the get go.
Also when a person is denied the right to have say so over thier own body growing up, as in many sexual abuse cases, you have a perverted sense of self. There is the juxstaposition of what you're taught at school and/or church : Everyone is special, wonderfull, talented, ect positive re-enforcement and what an abuse victim learns at home: You're worthless, dirty, filthy, evil, stupid, slow, dumb, ect negative re-enforcements. Thus you end trying to live up to "normal" peoples standard they hold for themselves, but there are still very weak boundaries. Easily persuaded, especially sexually. I mean was down right taught that my job in life was to sexually satisfy men, and for years even though a part of me knew that wasn't true, I still found it hard to draw the line with people, on many issues. I think this is why she seems to be so slutty to everyone. For KC sex is a tool, and possibly the sharpest one. Children start learning manipulation from the cradle. If you're raised by master manipulators, and KC was, then she was perfecting her skills at 2. Sorry if I got OT.

I have to agree with much of this. I have heard things like, well Casey was over 18, she should have just packed up her things, taken Caylee and made a life for them. Well, yes she should have...but, when raised in the type of enmeshment she was raised in, lack of boundaries, learned dependence, I believe it's easier said than done. I think this whole family is very complicated.

 

[Hollys G-mom]

Well, the bottom line is that none of the As have ever been able to "force" KC to do anything.

They couldn't make her stay in school.
They couldn't make her work for a living.
They couldn't make her tell the truth.
They couldn't (wouldn't) stop her from stealing from them.
They couldn't (according to them) make her tell who sired Caylee.
They couldn't stop her from partying, and screwing around.
We've all seen them try to wheedle information about what happened to Caylee, from her. She set her brakes and turned to silent stone.

Add to that the females in that house are dominant, but KC is perfectly capable of taking on CA (CA wheedling for information, while visiting KC in jail).

The idea that she'd passively and helplessly become a sex slave to one of the two first-degree relatives, or yield to being a a forced breeder becomes a bit absurd.

As willful and aggressive as she is in every area of her life, why would she become a passive victim in either/both of those two scenarios?


KC has always done whatever she wanted, without regard to anyone else. That was her downfall. That was also her choice.

Face it, folks. Some people are naturally shallow, promiscuous, greedy, manipulative, and/or just plain bad. It happens. Even among the young and cute.

Bold by me: Not if she'd been in that pattern of abuse , being raped since she was 2. I mean there are pedophiles blanketing the internet with "How To" videos on how to have sex with and infant-12 years of age. It does ocur. I know a woman who was forced to bear her fathers child @16. The child has no abnormalities and was given up for adoption almost immediately, if for no other reason then to not also be victimized prior to the mothers escape.

There are some really great website who give great information as to the whys and what-nots. I should get a few links. So do you think that because KC was sexually active, no more so then the average college aged person in my opinion, that that makes her a willing partner to rape or forced incest (if that was even the case. I thought it was ok to discuss our theories.
!


I don't think I can think of one person, now living or ever, who was "just born that way". Some may choose to stay that way, and I agree KC was this type at this stage of her life. I'm not saying because some types of abuse may have happened to her that it let's KC off the hook. No...That is NOT what I'm saying. What I am saying is this, how much of this can be considered contributing factors or even motive?

 

[NocturnalLady]

George is not being used by Cindy. He is the opposite side of the same coin. He lacks what Cindy has and vice versa. This dynamic does not work without the other one. He is not some dimwitted stockholm victim. He is a grown man who passed the police academy at some point in his life, ran a business for a period. He is fully competent.

My personal experience makes me very leary of the "good hearted man/woman that stands by their clearly unstable and horrible husband/wife"... while they take all the pats on the back and meanwhile the kids stuck in the situation has to deal with their inconsistent responses and the overwhelming life lesson that the people who "care most about you" will fail to protect you time and time and time again. That is a fun message to try to unwire from your brain if you want to have a healthy relationship sometime in your adult life.

I tend to be of the belief that the people who step into the role George is in have horrifying behavior/baggage just below the surface and they get a huge benefit by being with a partner that is so loud and visible in their dysfunction that the focus never makes it to their own.

BBM.

I agree with everything you said but especially the bold. :clap::clap:

 

[3doglady]

George is not being used by Cindy. He is the opposite side of the same coin. He lacks what Cindy has and vice versa. This dynamic does not work without the other one. He is not some dimwitted stockholm victim. He is a grown man who passed the police academy at some point in his life, ran a business for a period. He is fully competent.

My personal experience makes me very leary of the "good hearted man/woman that stands by their clearly unstable and horrible husband/wife"... while they take all the pats on the back and meanwhile the kids stuck in the situation has to deal with their inconsistent responses and the overwhelming life lesson that the people who "care most about you" will fail to protect you time and time and time again. That is a fun message to try to unwire from your brain if you want to have a healthy relationship sometime in your adult life.

I tend to be of the belief that the people who step into the role George is in have horrifying behavior/baggage just below the surface and they get a huge benefit by being with a partner that is so loud and visible in their dysfunction that the focus never makes it to their own.

I totally agree with you. I know a couple like this. I always thought the husband was the problem in the family. He was very loud and verbally abused the whole family. After he left them, I was shocked to learn that the personality of the wife (alone) was as dysfunctional. in a different way. as the husband. The children have big emotional problems because of their parents. One is like KC, lies, steals, yells verbal abuse at his mom who he still lives with at the age of 25. The other child is an overachiever, anything less than perfect and she gets hysterical.

 

[impatientredhead]

Bold by me: Not if she'd been in that pattern of abuse , being raped since she was 2. I mean there are pedophiles blanketing the internet with "How To" videos on how to have sex with and infant-12 years of age. It does ocur. I know a woman who was forced to bear her fathers child @16. The child has no abnormalities and was given up for adoption almost immediately, if for no other reason then to not also be victimized prior to the mothers escape.

There are some really great website who give great information as to the whys and what-nots. I should get a few links. So do you think that because KC was sexually active, no more so then the average college aged person in my opinion, that that makes her a willing partner to rape or forced incest (if that was even the case. I thought it was ok to discuss our theories.



I don't think I can think of one person, now living or ever, who was "just born that way". Some may choose to stay that way, and I agree KC was this type at this stage of her life. I'm not saying because some types of abuse may have happened to her that it let's KC off the hook. No...That is NOT what I'm saying. What I am saying is this, how much of this can be considered contributing factors or even motive?

Unfortunately there is nothing that unique about the environment Casey was raised in. There kids being raised by manipulative personality disordered mothers and fathers across the country. Some of them will continue on and raise their kids in the same dysfunction, some will break free, and some will end up in jail facing drug charges etc...... A bad childhood is not a motive to kill a toddler. If she had throttled Cindy I could call it motive, but she would still be 100% responsible for her actions.

We do not know that she was sexually abused. There are no DCF reports. No write ups at school. No horror stories about George and Cindy torturing her. If I was on the jury and you tried to sell this story to me as a mitigating factor of abuse it would not fly. The abuse was so horrid she chose to pretend to work and pretend to be moving out rather than remove herself and her child from this abusive environment? Nope, no way. Not on a criminal level.

If her "sins" were sleeping around, lying, and petty theft.... okay lets get her into some serious therapy and probation and give her the tools to improve her life and the life of her daughter. Explain away .000001% of her responsibility in killing a toddler, her toddler? Hell no.

And some sociopaths are just born that way. We are no different than any other animal species. Sometimes the wiring is just not right. Not every aggressive or fear biting dog has been abused. Some of them are just not right. Every sociopath is not the fault of their parents, and not every sociopath is homicidal. Of course environment can make a difference, just like pouring gas on a fire will make a difference.

 

[Brini]

I have followed all of these psych threads with great interest, and though I agreed that Casey showed all the signs of being a sociopath, it was difficult for me to grasp the totality of what that meant until I read a fictional account of another female sociopath that I better understood the behavior (In the Woods by Tana French, OK read, the portrayal of the sociopathic characters however was extremely edifying). I have never encountered anyone quite like Casey, sure I know people who are narcissists and have other personality disorders but I am fairly certain I have never encountered a true sociopath (at 23 I'm sure there is plenty of time for that). I think it this is why is was difficult for me, and remains difficult for others to understand how and why Casey acts as she does without any other underlying clinical or psychological reason for her behavior.

I've worked with them. If you haven't crossed one, yet, count your blessings!

The cause is generally though to be a hereditary difference in brain-wiring, plus a background that encourages or discourages the fruition of it.

 

[Brini]

Unfortunately there is nothing that unique about the environment Casey was raised in. There kids being raised by manipulative personality disordered mothers and fathers across the country. Some of them will continue on and raise their kids in the same dysfunction, some will break free, and some will end up in jail facing drug charges etc...... A bad childhood is not a motive to kill a toddler. If she had throttled Cindy I could call it motive, but she would still be 100% responsible for her actions.

We do not know that she was sexually abused. There are no DCF reports. No write ups at school. No horror stories about George and Cindy torturing her. If I was on the jury and you tried to sell this story to me as a mitigating factor of abuse it would not fly. The abuse was so horrid she chose to pretend to work and pretend to be moving out rather than remove herself and her child from this abusive environment? Nope, no way. Not on a criminal level.

If her "sins" were sleeping around, lying, and petty theft.... okay lets get her into some serious therapy and probation and give her the tools to improve her life and the life of her daughter. Explain away .000001% of her responsibility in killing a toddler, her toddler? Hell no.

And some sociopaths are just born that way. We are no different than any other animal species. Sometimes the wiring is just not right. Not every aggressive or fear biting dog has been abused. Some of them are just not right. Every sociopath is not the fault of their parents, and not every sociopath is homicidal. Of course environment can make a difference, just like pouring gas on a fire will make a difference.

POTD!:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: