Cause of Death and Time of Death *MERGED* (Warning: Contains Graphic Content!)

[panthera]

panthera - a matter of days (if even). I posted in the general threads about a friend who got it (from clipping one of her toenails too short and walking around barefoot). Within 2 days she was in the hospital and they were talking about amputating her whole leg. Thank God that didn't happen but I was shocked (and so was she) that something could set in that fast.

If Zahra had gotten blisters or raw - maybe even open sores on her stump and the bacteria entered there - very close to her femural artery and I would imagine it would be very quick. Symptoms are fever, rapid breathing, rapid heartbeat - could be mistaken for flu. If that happened AB and EB wouldn't have even realized that was what was wrong.

Thank you for reposting that information here. I honestly would be surprised if Zahra didn't have any complications from wearing the prosthesis that hadn't been replaced since leaving Australia. I still feel, however, that she met a violent death, perhaps prompted by not feeling well or her inability to move. MOO

 

[Mountain_Kat]

From my understanding of the facts of this case, there are ONLY 2 possible scenarios :

1). EB beat this child to death and both AB and EB covered it up.
2). Both AB and EB willfully, and with premeditation, murdered this child, and then completely destroyed her body after death in an attempt to eradicate any evidence of physical and/or sexual abuse.

No return of cancer, no sepsis, no death via neglect, no slow poisoning. The facts, imo, simply do not support those theories.

JMO

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Thank you for reposting that information here. I honestly would be surprised if Zahra didn't have any complications from wearing the prosthesis that hadn't been replaced since leaving Australia. I still feel, however, that she met a violent death, perhaps prompted by not feeling well or her inability to move. MOO

ITA - I believe she was badly beaten. Since EB has stated in her letters that she had been sick - I believe that she possibly was (probably from her stump) sick but not that it killed her. Her stump could have been worn raw and even blistered - but I do believe she was beaten to death. I am just looking for an explanation of where EB has come up with the "she was sick" story.

 

[panthera]

ITA - I believe she was badly beaten. Since EB has stated in her letters that she had been sick - I believe that she possibly was (probably from her stump) sick but not that it killed her. Her stump could have been worn raw and even blistered - but I do believe she was beaten to death. I am just looking for an explanation of where EB has come up with the "she was sick" story.

In every lie there's a little truth, or so the saying goes. There have been reports (discussed previously) of EB forcing Zahra to walk up the hill at the mobile home and implications of punishment. Zahra was last seen at the furniture store two weeks before she was reported missing. What if that outing and being forced to walk on her ill-fitting prosthesis caused a condition which led her to have "flu like symptoms" but was actually sepsis/gangrene setting in? What if EB couldn't get her out of bed.......and became violent? MOO

 

[Mountain_Kat]

ITA - I believe she was badly beaten. Since EB has stated in her letters that she had been sick - I believe that she possibly was (probably from her stump) sick but not that it killed her. Her stump could have been worn raw and even blistered - but I do believe she was beaten to death. I am just looking for an explanation of where EB has come up with the "she was sick" story.

It is interesting to note that AB makes certain to insert the "stomach virus" info in the 911 missing child call as a means to justify why he hasn't seen this child in days. I believe this was part of their script long before EB's jailhouse letters.

JMO

ETA: Very telling to me that AB so awkwardly worked this part of the story into the 911 call, then goes on to add the "broody puberty" comment, complete with nervous giggle.

 

[writer7]

What do y'all think about a possible shooting to end some terrible suffering that looked sure to end in death?

I don't mean to be fanciful, but I'm trying to think of what different evidence could show.

I think Adam could have killed her, in the end.

I do hope associates and friends are going to LE with any information they have about weapons the two may have had access to.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

What do y'all think about a possible shooting to end some terrible suffering that looked sure to end in death?

I don't mean to be fanciful, but I'm trying to think of what different evidence could show.

I think Adam could have killed her, in the end.

I do hope associates and friends are going to LE with any information they have about weapons the two may have had access to.

Don't believe for one split second that either of these 2 are the kind of people who would put their freedom on the line for any altruistic reason.

JMO

 

[Reba]

I believe that the time and effort it took to care for a child with needs as extensive as Zahra's triggered violent rages from EB. I think EB was so self absorbed that she could not tolerate any longer caring for her. Remember the recent story about the young mother beating her son to death because he interrupted her online game? Do we have any indication at how much time EB spent playing online?

MOO

 

[Reannan]

Does anyone know if Zahra had crutches to use when she did not have the prosthesis on??? I had a bone disease as a child and could not walk on my leg for 3 years. It was horrible. I grew up in the Southern United States without any air conditioning. I had HUGE blisters on my leg all summer where the brace that I wore rubbed up against my hip. In the evenings, and sometimes during the day, I would use my crutches. Did Zahra ever have crutches??? Just curious.....(and sympathetic)

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Does anyone know if Zahra had crutches to use when she did not have the prosthesis on??? I had a bone disease as a child and could not walk on my leg for 3 years. It was horrible. I grew up in the Southern United States without any air conditioning. I had HUGE blisters on my leg all summer where the brace that I wore rubbed up against my hip. In the evenings, and sometimes during the day, I would use my crutches. Did Zahra ever have crutches??? Just curious.....(and sympathetic)

I've seen pictures of her with them. I've heard friends and family members comment on them. What I don't know is if those crutches were ever recovered from the house by LE. But I would certainly LIKE to know that.

 

[tlcya]

From my understanding of the facts of this case, there are ONLY 2 possible scenarios :

1). EB beat this child to death and both AB and EB covered it up.
2). Both AB and EB willfully, and with premeditation, murdered this child, and then completely destroyed her body after death in an attempt to eradicate any evidence of physical and/or sexual abuse.

No return of cancer, no sepsis, no death via neglect, no slow poisoning. The facts, imo, simply do not support those theories.

JMO

Just my own here but I gotta disagree. I watched my dad die a pretty quick death, long term diabetes complications. I cared for him while my mom had to be at work. He wanted to die at home. I have seen sepsis up close and personal, and until you've changed those dressings and dealt with septic wounds, you just cannot imagine how quickly that infection moves, even with proper treatment. I can only imagine how quickly it would move if untreated.

I am not discounting your theories as I find them equally valid and possible. I just have to say, based on my own life experience and having seen it myself, the sepsis thing, really could shut down major organs within days.

Therefore, I can't dismiss that theory any more than I can dismiss yours at this point.

ETA Sepsis would not, however, explain to me why LE took that drywall from Z's room, unless part of the coverup began there. If that drywall shows evidence of bodily fluids such as blood, etc. Then I may be more willing to discount the septic theory.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Just my own here but I gotta disagree. I watched my dad die a pretty quick death, long term diabetes complications. I cared for him while my mom had to be at work. He wanted to die at home. I have seen sepsis up close and personal, and until you've changed those dressings and dealt with septic wounds, you just cannot imagine how quickly that infection moves, even with proper treatment. I can only imagine how quickly it would move if untreated.

I am not discounting your theories as I find them equally valid and possible. I just have to say, based on my own life experience and having seen it myself, the sepsis thing, really could shut down major organs within days.

Therefore, I can't dismiss that theory any more than I can dismiss yours at this point.

ETA Sepsis would not, however, explain to me why LE took that drywall from Z's room, unless part of the coverup began there. If that drywall shows evidence of bodily fluids such as blood, etc. Then I may be more willing to discount the septic theory.

I hear you, TL. And you know how much I respect your opinion. But here is why the sepsis theory doesn't work for me:

1). Let's assume Zahra dies in her bed, from sepsis (or cancer, or poisoning). How do you then explain LE taking out part of the bedroom wall and floor. I can see no scenario where dismemberment would have occured in this room...way too difficult to clean to do that purposefully there. I have to assume there was blood evidence (and quite alot of it) on the wall and floor of this room, so I have to ask myself why it would be there.

2). Set the bedroom aside for a moment. A child in your care dies of sepsis because you neglected them. You're scared, you panic, you decide to get rid of the body. Why would you chose to dismember the body when you could simply bury it. No blood evidence in your home to lead LE straight to your door.

Just from those two things I can't make this theory work in my mind. And I could list several more on top of those.

JMO

ETA: Aha...I see your ETA and see that once again, we are in lock step.

 

[tlcya]

love you too M_K. I cannot explain the dismemberment period!

That part of this whole thing, while sickening, is also just plain puzzling to me. This is an area of the state with lots of bodies of water, some in rather isolated areas. Why not weigh down a whole body and chuck it into one?

Why not visit one of the MANY isolated wooded less travelled at night areas and just bury a body?

One site, less chance of being interupted, less chance of being witnessed. The whole dismemberment angle just completely stymies me.

ETA question, in what circumstance DOES the dismemberment make sense to you? What does the dismemberment address that burying or submerging does not?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

love you too M_K. I cannot explain the dismemberment period!

That part of this whole thing, while sickening, is also just plain puzzling to me. This is a an area of the state with lots of bodies of water, some in rather isolated areas. Why not weigh down a whole body and chuck it into one?

Why not visit one of the MANY isolated wooded less travelled at night areas and just bury a body?

One site, less chance of being interupted, less chance of being witnessed. The whole dismemberment angle just completely stymies me.

ETA question, in what circumstance DOES the dismemberment make sense to you? What does the dismemberment address that burying or submerging does not?

Me too,TL. The only thing I can come up with to even begin to reasonably (well, you know what I mean) explain it is that there had to be some story her little body could tell, and that terrified the living crap out of whoever did this.

It's the only thing I can wrap my head around AT ALL.

ETA: Get out of my head! You're starting to freak me out over here! LOL!

 

[tlcya]

:floorlaugh: kinda creepin me out to, but not in a bad way,just weird

ETA good thing we don't live near one another, lol We'd never get anything done. I think I found my "soul" sister.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Here's the thing, though. If you buried a body, and it wasn't discovered for some time...would the body show evidence of whatever this secret was? If you weighed down a body, and threw it in a lake, and it wasn't recovered for some time, would the body still be able to betray your secret? I don't know. But more to the point, I doubt if either of these 2 brain surgeons would know.

Umm...I've lost my train of thought. Or maybe I really didn't have much of one to begin with.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Me too,TL. The only thing I can come up with to even begin to reasonably (well, you know what I mean) explain it is that there had to be some story her little body could tell, and that terrified the living crap out of whoever did this.

It's the only thing I can wrap my head around AT ALL.

ETA: Get out of my head! You're starting to freak me out over here! LOL!

BBM

Yes yes and yes. I hope the Dudley Shoals find and recovery was her head. And I also hope they had wrapped it or possibly put it in a bag that would have really slowed the decomp process. Hair toxicology will tell a lot but if there was facial bruising pre-mortem or a broken cheek bone or broken nose, possibly blows to the back of her head or the top. It will very much tell the story. This could even be true of the other remains recovery. Hopefully the abuse she suffered will be proven.

 

[tlcya]

I am with you M_K, chasing round my brain trying to figure what these two folks were thinking is making me dizzy.

 

[bessie]

Sepsis and advanced cancer are definitely possibilities. I've witnessed both, and the decline is rapid. In the end, though, I think Zahra's death was violent. Removing sections of the floor and wall support that, just like the need to dismember and hide her body. There was something these two vile animals couldn't allow to become known.

 

[tlcya]

BBM

Yes yes and yes. I hope the Dudley Shoals find and recovery was her head. And I also hope they had wrapped it or possibly put it in a bag that would have really slowed the decomp process. Hair toxicology will tell a lot but if there was facial bruising pre-mortem or a broken cheek bone or broken nose, possibly blows to the back of her head or the top. It will very much tell the story. This could even be true of the other remains recovery. Hopefully the abuse she suffered will be proven.

I agree - whatever the recent remains found were, I hope they are telling a story loud and clear to the ME.