Cesar Laurean's Trial

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #181
Ocean, I understand where you're coming from, and truthfully, I'm not sure what I believe. I will say that Ive spent a lot of time working closely with Sailors and Marines and there have been many occasions where I've honestly thought they were single, only to find out otherwise when their wives finally moved to the area (luckily for me, I don't get involved with people I work with). Also, when did he start talking about the wife and kid? It would make sense for him to project a "family man" image if he knew that he was possibly going to be charged with rape, or at the very least adultery. Again, this all pure speculation, and in the end, immaterial as it doesn't change the fact that she was murdered.
 
  • #182
He convinced me that all of this is totally out of character for Cesar Laurean.

Another reason why I dont feel he premeditated this.

IMO

I swear, I'm not trying to pick on you Ocean, but this is an interesting comment. I agree that murder seems to be out of character for Cesar, and I really don't think he's a cold blooded person who's first thought was " if I kill her, all this goes away". I do however, think he was an outstanding Marine who had the potential for extremely successful career. I think he loved being a Marine, and was probably aware that his chances of having similar success in the civilian sector were pretty slim. I also believe he made a stupid mistake and got involved with a young girl who lacked some emotional maturity and self esteem and things got out of control.

He was going to have a hard time refuting the rape allegation without admitting to adultery and fraternazation, both of which could potentially affect his career. The pregnancy added an additional complication, as I do believe that he at least thought there was a possibility the kid was his. The Marine testified yesterday that in Cesar's mind, the solution to the problem was basically for Maria to go away. I seriously doubt he wanted to hurt her, but he wanted her gone (to Mexico) so that he would not have to answer for his actions to the Corps.

I think it's possible that he tried to convince Maria to run away by saying he would join her, and for awhile it looked like she was going to go along with it. She bought the bus ticket, and he started to believe it might really all just go away. At some point on the 14th she returned to his house, and if she told him that she changed her mind about leaving, the threat to his career, his life is back. As previously demonstrated, he just wants to make it all go away.

I don't think he plotted for months, weeks or days to kill her, but when she showed back up and he knew his plan wasn't going to work, I think he got desperate. He may have seen her murder as his only way of salvaging his life, but if he picked up that crowbar and swung it with the intent to "make her go away" it's premeditated. One single blow to her head is, to me, more indicative of a calculated attack, than the actions of a "crime of passion" snapping.
 
  • #183
Ocean, I understand where you're coming from, and truthfully, I'm not sure what I believe. I will say that Ive spent a lot of time working closely with Sailors and Marines and there have been many occasions where I've honestly thought they were single, only to find out otherwise when their wives finally moved to the area (luckily for me, I don't get involved with people I work with). Also, when did he start talking about the wife and kid? It would make sense for him to project a "family man" image if he knew that he was possibly going to be charged with rape, or at the very least adultery. Again, this all pure speculation, and in the end, immaterial as it doesn't change the fact that she was murdered.

From the females that did interviews that worked with Laurean he seemed to have always done this. They said he absolutely adored his daughter, Abreanna and talked with the females about what diapers they used and what kind they did. Just normal chit chat. The Officer that testified today said they were about 10 people in his area including Lauterbach until she was moved after the rape allegation.

I haven't heard anyone say that Laurean told others he was single. And if he took her to his own home then today one of the witnesses said that family photos were in the home showing a family lived there. Jewelry boxes, clothing, toys etc.

Christina was working in Raleigh irrc and that isn't that far to come home on the weekends is it or maybe it is close enough that she commuted each day? I am not from NC so I don't really know how far these place are.

IMO
 
  • #184
I wasn't aware she was in Raleigh... Yes, that's plenty close. It's really hard to say without having been there what the situation was. I know several people who worked with or hung around him, and I've heard several different characterizations of him. The consistent themes, however, are that he was basically a good guy, but not above engaging in some of the "boys will boys" behaviors that are pretty common around here.

Just to clarify, I have the utmost respect for Marines and what they do, but Jacksonville is a tough town on marriages. I've seen people that I know to be intelligent, decent spouses do some really stupid things when they get around their buddies. Ive also some witnessed some equally intelligent single women get caught up with married men, and go a little nuts. I've lived a lot of places, but Jacksonville is truly in a class of it's own.
 
  • #185
I swear, I'm not trying to pick on you Ocean, but this is an interesting comment. I agree that murder seems to be out of character for Cesar, and I really don't think he's a cold blooded person who's first thought was " if I kill her, all this goes away". I do however, think he was an outstanding Marine who had the potential for extremely successful career. I think he loved being a Marine, and was probably aware that his chances of having similar success in the civilian sector were pretty slim. I also believe he made a stupid mistake and got involved with a young girl who lacked some emotional maturity and self esteem and things got out of control.

He was going to have a hard time refuting the rape allegation without admitting to adultery and fraternization, both of which could potentially affect his career. The pregnancy added an additional complication, as I do believe that he at least thought there was a possibility the kid was his. The Marine testified yesterday that in Cesar's mind, the solution to the problem was basically for Maria to go away. I seriously doubt he wanted to hurt her, but he wanted her gone (to Mexico) so that he would not have to answer for his actions to the Corps.

I think it's possible that he tried to convince Maria to run away by saying he would join her, and for awhile it looked like she was going to go along with it. She bought the bus ticket, and he started to believe it might really all just go away. At some point on the 14th she returned to his house, and if she told him that she changed her mind about leaving, the threat to his career, his life is back. As previously demonstrated, he just wants to make it all go away.

I don't think he plotted for months, weeks or days to kill her, but when she showed back up and he knew his plan wasn't going to work, I think he got desperate. He may have seen her murder as his only way of salvaging his life, but if he picked up that crowbar and swung it with the intent to "make her go away" it's premeditated. One single blow to her head is, to me, more indicative of a calculated attack, than the actions of a "crime of passion" snapping.

I love different theories. You will find I am very laid back and easygoing. I don't consider it "picking on me" because you have an opinion and voice it when you reply to my posts.

My theory is Maria did have consensual sex with him, both times imo. I don't only think that Maria was immature, I think she had some mental issues. Even her mother said so. Maybe Cesar stopped to think how this could affect his career if he continued, and I do agree being a stellar Marine was very important to him, so he may have broken it off with her, and she just immaturely reacted, and wanted to hurt him in the way she knew would hurt the most......his career and marriage.

Imo they did not see each other again until around September because if he had been seeing her all along he wouldn't have asked his Marine buddy to contact her to set up a happenstance meeting.

In May, maybe to get back at Cesar, Maria went with someone else and got pregnant by that mystery dad.

But I cannot say with any certainty that Cesar did not love her. He said he did, even though he knew it would get back to Christina, since the US press was there in Mexico when he was arrested.

Forbidden love sometimes is more alluring than love that is not. So I do think he thought it was best for him and Maria that she leave the Corps and his grandmother who lives in Mexico would take care of Maria and his child (he thought at the time) until he came to be with them and he would send money to support them until then.

He would have been able to leave the Corps In March of the following year, iirc, when his contract would have been up.

Sheriff Brown did say early on that he had learned Maria may be getting dishonorably discharged from the Corps and it would have happen too if the child did not turnout to be Laureans. Rightly or wrongly, Maria's credibility was already an issue with the Marine Corps way before the rape allegations. So I think even Maria knew things weren't going to go well for her in the MC and she knew she couldn't be there for them to take DNA testing on her child, even though she had recently tried to retract that he was the father. The Corps was still going to take the DNA of Gabriel. If they determined that Maria was lying the entire time about all of these accusations she would have been in deep do.

I don't know what happened when she came there twice to his home. Evidently the first time everything must have gone rather well. Maybe she got cold feet and returned demanding that he leave with her then. Maybe if he told her he couldn't do that, but would come later, and it made her so angry that she blurted out to him. "YOU ARE NOT THE FATHER OF MY BABY!" and she may have even told him who the real father was. I think very mean spirited words were exchanged by both of them and it got more and more heated until there was an emotional explosion culminating from the months of pressure they both had been under.

I remember early on someone said "no one bullied Maria" so I think it was a very heated exchange of hurtful words from both sides.

I see this case as a crime of passion. Months and months of undeniable pressure on two people in a firestorm of emotions and events. When they came together for the last time things were raw with emotional rage and there is a very thin line between love and hate.

IMO of course.
 
  • #186
He convinced me that all of this is totally out of character for Cesar Laurean.

Another reason why I dont feel he premeditated this.

IMO
I really would have liked to have seen his testimony. I am also in agreement with you regarding premeditation. MOO
 
  • #187
I wasn't aware she was in Raleigh... Yes, that's plenty close. It's really hard to say without having been there what the situation was. I know several people who worked with or hung around him, and I've heard several different characterizations of him. The consistent themes, however, are that he was basically a good guy, but not above engaging in some of the "boys will boys" behaviors that are pretty common around here.

Just to clarify, I have the utmost respect for Marines and what they do, but Jacksonville is a tough town on marriages. I've seen people that I know to be intelligent, decent spouses do some really stupid things when they get around their buddies. Ive also some witnessed some equally intelligent single women get caught up with married men, and go a little nuts. I've lived a lot of places, but Jacksonville is truly in a class of it's own.

That is why our son made himself a promise before he went into the Marine Corps to never marry a woman from a town he was based at and he kept that promise to himself and came back to Georgia and found the woman of his dreams. Who btw/is from NC but not a base town. LOL!

Yes, I am very aware that Jacksonville is a rough town on marriages. My son was over about 40 men when he was at New River AS, and a lot of them once they came back from deployment, found their wives and children gone, and they were living with another Marine or some other guy from Jacksonville.

He spent a lot of his off time just trying to help them find a place to live since they had no home to come back to when they came back from overseas. And it wasn't unusual for some of their wives to be pregnant by another man when they came back. It broke his heart at times and infuriated him at other times but it also was a very good life lesson for him and he was determine he would never be one of those statistics and he wasnt, and for that I am very thankful and love my daughter in law as much as if she is my own child.

IMO
 
  • #188
Laurean trial update: Tell-tale computer records

GOLDSBORO — As local and federal authorities narrowed in on Cesar Laurean as the main suspect in the disappearance of a pregnant colleague, his computer searched websites about homicide investigations, Jacksonville defense lawyers and employment opportunities in Mexico, according to testimony Friday.
Former Marine Cpl. Cesar Laurean, 23, is on trial charged with first-degree murder in the death of 20-year-old Lance Cpl. Maria Lauterbach of Vandalia, Ohio, in December 2007. She was missing until her body was discovered in Laurean’s Half Moon community backyard in mid-January 2008.
A judge ruled earlier this year that the trial be held in Wayne County due to pretrial publicity in Onslow County.
The prosecution team of District Attorney Dewey Hudson, Chief ADA Ernie Lee, and Senior ADA Mike Maultsby continued Friday to lay out their case against Laurean with testimony from a computer expert, a Naval investigator, a bank official and two former Laurean neighbors.
The Defense Department computer issued to Laurean accessed the Internet on Jan. 8, 2008, to search Amazon.com for books about “what happens in a homicide investigation,” according to testimony Friday from Special Agent Randy Dulay, a computer forensic expert with Naval Criminal Investigative Service.
Also Googled were Jacksonville defense lawyers, including the Welch Law Firm.
Jacksonville lawyer Chris Welch has represented Laurean’s wife, Christina Laurean, since Lauterbach’s body was discovered in the Laureans’ backyard Jan. 11, 2008.

more at http://www.enctoday.com/news/records-89803-nbsj-bodycopyrag-tale.html
 
  • #189
Ocean, happy to her that you don't take offense. I'm always interested in hearing what other have to say, and while I might not always agree, I do respect your thoughts and can understand why you have the opinions you do. (And kudos to you on your advice to your son!! So glad he listened.)

I hear a lot of people talking about how Maria was a pathological liar, bipolar etc. but again I haven't seen anything other than antecdotal evidence of this. I think she was a young, immature girl who tried to manipulate situations to get her way. Sadly, this isn't unusual. Most female Marines fall into one of two (very general) categories, those who use their gender as a crutch or an excuse, and those who choose not to make it an issue. The females in the former category do not last long. The lies Maria was purported to have told appear to all have been a means to an end, attention, sympathy, money etc. That makes her dishonest, not mentally ill. Pathological liars tell lies even when the truth is plainly obvious, and even when the lies serve no purpose or have no benefit to them.

I wholeheartedly agree that she used the rape allegations to try and manipulate the situation, perhaps to punish him, perhaps to try and get his attention, maybe both. I also think Cesar cared about her, and didn't want to hurt her. I do not believe he ever intended on ruining his career, leaving the Corps, or his wife to be with her. Every thing points to a guy who loved being a Marine. I'm sure you understand that for most Marines, it's not just a job, it's an identity. Being a Marine is first and foremost who they are. As I said, I think he just wanted the threat to his identity to go away.

I also see what you're saying regarding months of frustration and lies building up and leading to an ugly scene, and a "crime of passion". Sadly, there is no legal definition for a crime passion. It's a defense that basically claims that he didn't know that picking up a crowbar and striking her in the head with it could lead to her death. Yes, in the heat of the moment we can all do things without thinking, but where was the crowbar? Was it in his hand when they started fighting? Or did he have to look around and pick it up? There's been nothing to suggest that he had any reason to defend himself from Maria, or that, other than wielding it as a weapon, he had any reason to be holding a crowbar. So if he picked it up, it's reasonable to assume he intended to use it as a weapon. When he swung it, he aimed at her head. Again, a reasonable person could assume that, given his training as a Marine, he knew that such a blow could kill her. So, if he made the decision to pick up an object, wield it as a weapon and deliver a blow that he knew had a reasonable chance of causing her death, then by the legal definition, the murder was premeditated. It's a sad, sad situation, as it seems that if just one or two things had been done differently it could have been prevented. But no matter how poor Maria's choices were, she (nor her baby) deserved to die. IMHO he made a choice, under stress yes, but still made a choice that ended her life.

Again, just my opinion here, and I'm certainly the first to admit that I'm wrong more than I'm right. :) I don't envy those jurors, that's for sure.
 
  • #190
Ocean, happy to her that you don't take offense. I'm always interested in hearing what other have to say, and while I might not always agree, I do respect your thoughts and can understand why you have the opinions you do. (And kudos to you on your advice to your son!! So glad he listened.)

I hear a lot of people talking about how Maria was a pathological liar, bipolar etc. but again I haven't seen anything other than antecdotal evidence of this. I think she was a young, immature girl who tried to manipulate situations to get her way. Sadly, this isn't unusual. Most female Marines fall into one of two (very general) categories, those who use their gender as a crutch or an excuse, and those who choose not to make it an issue. The females in the former category do not last long. The lies Maria was purported to have told appear to all have been a means to an end, attention, sympathy, money etc. That makes her dishonest, not mentally ill. Pathological liars tell lies even when the truth is plainly obvious, and even when the lies serve no purpose or have no benefit to them.

I wholeheartedly agree that she used the rape allegations to try and manipulate the situation, perhaps to punish him, perhaps to try and get his attention, maybe both. I also think Cesar cared about her, and didn't want to hurt her. I do not believe he ever intended on ruining his career, leaving the Corps, or his wife to be with her. Every thing points to a guy who loved being a Marine. I'm sure you understand that for most Marines, it's not just a job, it's an identity. Being a Marine is first and foremost who they are. As I said, I think he just wanted the threat to his identity to go away.

I also see what you're saying regarding months of frustration and lies building up and leading to an ugly scene, and a "crime of passion". Sadly, there is no legal definition for a crime passion. It's a defense that basically claims that he didn't know that picking up a crowbar and striking her in the head with it could lead to her death. Yes, in the heat of the moment we can all do things without thinking, but where was the crowbar? Was it in his hand when they started fighting? Or did he have to look around and pick it up? There's been nothing to suggest that he had any reason to defend himself from Maria, or that, other than wielding it as a weapon, he had any reason to be holding a crowbar. So if he picked it up, it's reasonable to assume he intended to use it as a weapon. When he swung it, he aimed at her head. Again, a reasonable person could assume that, given his training as a Marine, he knew that such a blow could kill her. So, if he made the decision to pick up an object, wield it as a weapon and deliver a blow that he knew had a reasonable chance of causing her death, then by the legal definition, the murder was premeditated. It's a sad, sad situation, as it seems that if just one or two things had been done differently it could have been prevented. But no matter how poor Maria's choices were, she (nor her baby) deserved to die. IMHO he made a choice, under stress yes, but still made a choice that ended her life.

Again, just my opinion here, and I'm certainly the first to admit that I'm wrong more than I'm right. :) I don't envy those jurors, that's for sure.

I believe it is going to come into the trial when Mary Lauterbach testifies. She is the one that said her daughter is a pathological liar (she wrote a three page email detailing Maria and sent it to the police) and she also said she is bi-polar. I believe I remember Maria's uncle saying the same and he is a psychiatrist.

BBM

I respectfully disagree a "crime of passion" is a very viable and legal defense.
It is used often when there is sudden violence among those who were known to each other and in relationships.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/569913/what_is_a_crime_of_passion_is_it_a.html?cat=17

We hear about crimes of passion all the time. A crime of passion is usually a murder or an assault that is precipitated by jealousy, or an act that wasn't planned (premeditated), but occurred for no other reason than pure emotional violence. In the past, many murderers have escaped murder charges or even prison because of this legal defense.

The purpose for a crime of passion defense is to rule out one very important element of murder: premeditation.

*************************

That is why McNeil included this in his opening statements.

Now do I believe they are going to give Cesar a lesser degree? NO. But IMO, this is not a premeditated crime but one where passions erupted like hot volcanic lava.

Cesar Laurean has no history whatsoever of ever acting violently. This was an aberration.

I believe the crowbar was sitting in the garage very close to where they were arguing. I dont think he went and got the crowbar and came back. He was enraged so he picked it up and swung it once.

IMO
 
  • #191
Thank you for keeping me in check :) I mispoke in saying there is no legal definition for a crime of passion. It can be a viable legal defense, as the article pointed out, but it is not something, that, to my knowledge is defined by North Carolina statute. It's a tricky thing because you are talking about a state of mind. If it did indeed happen as you proposed and he had never previously threatened violence, then yes, I can see where a lesser charge would apply. Again, I could be completely wrong, but I think there's more to the story, and that hopefully it will be brought forward in court. I realize that unsubstantiated claims are not fact, but there are enough people involved whom I highly respect that are adament that the state has enough evidence to prove that it was in fact, first degree murder, so I will agree to disagree.

As to her mental health, I've heard so many conflicting opinions that I'm just going to reserve judgement until/if there is verifiable evidence from an unbiased party. Again, no disrespect, as I fully understand your position.

I think it is clear that we both agree that this is a tragic story, with a horrendous outcome, and regardless of the outcome of the trial, the fact remains that so many lives were shattered, and two were ended. When all is said and done, the only thing good that can come out of this is that by reflecting on the events that occurred, we may be better able to identify and handle similar situations, and intervene before they get this far.
 
  • #192
He was going to have a hard time refuting the rape allegation without admitting to adultery and fraternazation, both of which could potentially affect his career. The pregnancy added an additional complication, as I do believe that he at least thought there was a possibility the kid was his. The Marine testified yesterday that in Cesar's mind, the solution to the problem was basically for Maria to go away. I seriously doubt he wanted to hurt her, but he wanted her gone (to Mexico) so that he would not have to answer for his actions to the Corps.

I think it's possible that he tried to convince Maria to run away by saying he would join her, and for awhile it looked like she was going to go along with it. She bought the bus ticket, and he started to believe it might really all just go away. At some point on the 14th she returned to his house, and if she told him that she changed her mind about leaving, the threat to his career, his life is back. As previously demonstrated, he just wants to make it all go away.

I don't think he plotted for months, weeks or days to kill her, but when she showed back up and he knew his plan wasn't going to work, I think he got desperate. He may have seen her murder as his only way of salvaging his life, but if he picked up that crowbar and swung it with the intent to "make her go away" it's premeditated. One single blow to her head is, to me, more indicative of a calculated attack, than the actions of a "crime of passion" snapping.

Is it possible that he lead her on until he knew she had bought that bus ticket, then intentionally persuaded her to come back, or even set that up in advance, like maybe "come back after you have the ticket and I'll have some cash for you to take", then offed her in the garage with Maria never seeing it coming. Maybe he was banking on her body NEVER being found and everyone just thinking she went to Mexico and dropped off the radar. This could answer the mystery of why she would go back that second time and the second visit did NOT match up with the first.
 
  • #193
Thank you for keeping me in check :) I mispoke in saying there is no legal definition for a crime of passion. It can be a viable legal defense, as the article pointed out, but it is not something, that, to my knowledge is defined by North Carolina statute. It's a tricky thing because you are talking about a state of mind. If it did indeed happen as you proposed and he had never previously threatened violence, then yes, I can see where a lesser charge would apply. Again, I could be completely wrong, but I think there's more to the story, and that hopefully it will be brought forward in court. I realize that unsubstantiated claims are not fact, but there are enough people involved whom I highly respect that are adament that the state has enough evidence to prove that it was in fact, first degree murder, so I will agree to disagree.

As to her mental health, I've heard so many conflicting opinions that I'm just going to reserve judgement until/if there is verifiable evidence from an unbiased party. Again, no disrespect, as I fully understand your position.

I think it is clear that we both agree that this is a tragic story, with a horrendous outcome, and regardless of the outcome of the trial, the fact remains that so many lives were shattered, and two were ended. When all is said and done, the only thing good that can come out of this is that by reflecting on the events that occurred, we may be better able to identify and handle similar situations, and intervene before they get this far.

Good morning.

Lots to do before we leave on our Anniversary vacation tomorrow!:crazy:

My opinion about her mental instability is based on what her own mother and psychiatrist's Uncle has said about Maria. Also some of the very odd things she did in Corps.

I will be back later on.
 
  • #194
Good morning.

Lots to do before we leave on our Anniversary vacation tomorrow!:crazy:

My opinion about her mental instability is based on what her own mother and psychiatrist's Uncle has said about Maria. Also some of the very odd things she did in Corps.

I will be back later on.


I do understand that, but her mother and uncle (even if he is a psychiatrist) aren't unbiased. Families are funny things. As I said, not saying there's not the possibility, just reserving judgement.

Yay for your anniversary vacation! A vacation of any kind sounds positively wonderful, sadly I have to wait until November. *pouts*

Thanks again for the intelligent discussion. :)
 
  • #195
Is it possible that he lead her on until he knew she had bought that bus ticket, then intentionally persuaded her to come back, or even set that up in advance, like maybe "come back after you have the ticket and I'll have some cash for you to take", then offed her in the garage with Maria never seeing it coming. Maybe he was banking on her body NEVER being found and everyone just thinking she went to Mexico and dropped off the radar. This could answer the mystery of why she would go back that second time and the second visit did NOT match up with the first.

I would like to know why he was at home instead of at the Christmas party.
It's hard to believe Maria would just happen to show up at his home when he wouldn't be expected to be there. I do think he set this up. And I do think he thought that people would be convinced she ran off and disappeared.
He may not have shown violent tendencies before he killed a pregnant woman with a crowbar, tried to steal all her money after she was dead and burned her and her baby's bodies up in a fire (to which he invited friends), but he demonstrated them throughout the crime and its aftermath.
 
  • #196
I do understand that, but her mother and uncle (even if he is a psychiatrist) aren't unbiased. Families are funny things. As I said, not saying there's not the possibility, just reserving judgement.

Yay for your anniversary vacation! A vacation of any kind sounds positively wonderful, sadly I have to wait until November. *pouts*

Thanks again for the intelligent discussion. :)

Back for a short break. lol

Yes, they are biased and most families usually deny there are mental disorders present but it seems Mary and Frank did not and dealt with it head on.

Had this information come from someone else I would not give it as much weight. But these two people had known Maria all of her life and was there through her life struggles until she joined the Corps at 17.

IMO
 
  • #197
I would like to know why he was at home instead of at the Christmas party.
It's hard to believe Maria would just happen to show up at his home when he wouldn't be expected to be there. I do think he set this up. And I do think he thought that people would be convinced she ran off and disappeared.
He may not have shown violent tendencies before he killed a pregnant woman with a crowbar, tried to steal all her money after she was dead and burned her and her baby's bodies up in a fire (to which he invited friends), but he demonstrated them throughout the crime and its aftermath.

Maybe we will see the phone records of which one called first.

Didn't the Officer say there was no set time to be there? It is said she came there twice so maybe she came early the first time knowing he wouldn't have left for the party yet. Imo, she knew he would go home first and change out of his cammies.

To this day my main question is if Laurean had really raped her why would she go there no matter what he tried to setup?

So, imo there is a lot that we don't know about the real relationship between them. Imo, it was much more than met the eye.

I see no evidence at this time that he set any of this up. Especially no evidence thus far that he had preplanned intentions of killing her. Maria was known to do what Maria wanted to do. I think Maria went willingly and on her own accord and I don't think he knew she was going to return to his home for the second time.

While the aftermath is emotional, I try to stick strictly to what he is charged with, and he isn't charged with purposefully desecrating the body. IMO, if he was going to do that he would have doused her with accelerant and burned her above ground before burying the remains. The reason she was charred was the heat filtered down into the cracks and crevices of the disturbed earth over her body that cant be packed down like it was in its original state. And if that was his full intention he would have had more than one bonfire than the one which happened in late December, almost two weeks after she was killed.

He was a coward and desperately trying to camouflage where the shallow grave was.

imo
 
  • #198
While the aftermath is emotional, I try to stick strictly to what he is charged with, and he isn't charged with purposefully desecrating the body.


Very good point Ocean. I think people have a hard time separating the two. His actions, however horrific, following the (alleged) murder have no bearing on the charge at hand. It's such an emotional case, but in order for justice to prevail, each juror must try to focus on the facts and the applicable laws. As I've said, glad it's not me.
 
  • #199
Back for a short break. lol

Yes, they are biased and most families usually deny there are mental disorders present but it seems Mary and Frank did not and dealt with it head on.

Had this information come from someone else I would not give it as much weight. But these two people had known Maria all of her life and was there through her life struggles until she joined the Corps at 17.

IMO

Perhaps I'm jaded, but to me, biased is biased. You're absolutely correct in that there are families that deny mental disorders, however in my line of work (health care) I've also seen families who latch on to the idea of a "mental disorder" as a way to explain away behavioral issues that have gotten out of control, instead of admitting that there may be problems in their home that need to be dealt with. To clarify, Mary Lauterbach said she "suspected" her daughter was bipolar and the Uncle clarified his statements to say that while Maria had a history of lying when under stress, he did not consider her to be a compulsive liar.

Do I believe that Maria was a troubled young woman? Absolutely, but there are lots of troubled people who are not, by definition, mentally ill. Unfortunately, I see the same type of manipulative behavior, to include the lying, every day. IMHO she made a series of extremely poor choices, but I do believe there was evidence that she was trying to rectify her mistakes and gain control of her life again. One of the many tragedies in this story is that it appears neither Maria, nor anyone around her (to include her command) made a serious attempt to get her any help from the mental health community. Again, while I don't believe she was suffering from a clinical mental illness, I do think she would have benefited greatly from counseling.
 
  • #200
Is it possible that he lead her on until he knew she had bought that bus ticket, then intentionally persuaded her to come back, or even set that up in advance, like maybe "come back after you have the ticket and I'll have some cash for you to take", then offed her in the garage with Maria never seeing it coming. Maybe he was banking on her body NEVER being found and everyone just thinking she went to Mexico and dropped off the radar. This could answer the mystery of why she would go back that second time and the second visit did NOT match up with the first.
I cannot see Laurean planning the murder and having it inside his house and thinking he could totally dispose of her body in his backyard. If he planned to kill her he could've chosen another location where he wouldn't be tied to her death. MOO
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
80
Guests online
1,241
Total visitors
1,321

Forum statistics

Threads
632,379
Messages
18,625,454
Members
243,120
Latest member
yoyo2025
Back
Top