Cesar Laurean's Trial

[oceanblueeyes]

Perhaps I'm jaded, but to me, biased is biased. You're absolutely correct in that there are families that deny mental disorders, however in my line of work (health care) I've also seen families who latch on to the idea of a "mental disorder" as a way to explain away behavioral issues that have gotten out of control, instead of admitting that there may be problems in their home that need to be dealt with. To clarify, Mary Lauterbach said she "suspected" her daughter was bipolar and the Uncle clarified his statements to say that while Maria had a history of lying when under stress, he did not consider her to be a compulsive liar.

Do I believe that Maria was a troubled young woman? Absolutely, but there are lots of troubled people who are not, by definition, mentally ill. Unfortunately, I see the same type of manipulative behavior, to include the lying, every day. IMHO she made a series of extremely poor choices, but I do believe there was evidence that she was trying to rectify her mistakes and gain control of her life again. One of the many tragedies in this story is that it appears neither Maria, nor anyone around her (to include her command) made a serious attempt to get her any help from the mental health community. Again, while I don't believe she was suffering from a clinical mental illness, I do think she would have benefited greatly from counseling.

I can only go by what I have read thus far. I believe the Corps did provide counseling when she stoled the Christmas money at Boot Camp. They also provided her with a victim's advocate when she made the allegations of rape and she was available day and night for Maria. They also offer counseling for alleged rape victims. So I am of the opinion that the Corps did not let Maria down. They tried to help her and she would tell them one thing and then tell Mary the opposite.

I do not know why she lied but she did. Anyone that can make up a tall tale that their father killed their own little brother or saying that they had cancer and had to have hysterectomy, goes way beyond typical falsehoods, imo. And to do this in an environment known for truth and veracity is even more abnormal and bizarre , imo.

I think her issues went much deeper than merely being immature and making poor choices.

IMOO

 

[GeekyGirl]

I can only go by what I have read thus far. I believe the Corps did provide counseling when she stoled the Christmas money at Boot Camp. They also provided her with a victim's advocate when she made the allegations of rape and she was available day and night for Maria. They also offer counseling for alleged rape victims. So I am of the opinion that the Corps did not let Maria down. They tried to help her and she would tell them one thing and then tell Mary the opposite.

I do not know why she lied but she did. Anyone that can make up a tall tale that their father killed their own little brother or saying that they had cancer and had to have hysterectomy, goes way beyond typical falsehoods, imo. And to do this in an environment known for truth and veracity is even more abnormal and bizarre , imo.

I think her issues went much deeper than merely being immature and making poor choices.
IMOO

Let me first say, that while I have the utmost respect for the Marine Corps, and that there is no doubt that they highly value honesty and integrity, the "environment" they live in is subject to the same flaw as all others, it contains human beings. I could rattle off at least a hundred stories I've been told by Marines that are more outrageous that what Maria claimed. Certainly this type of behavior is the exception rather than rule, but when you take young people, move them far away from their home and put them in a high stress environment, there will always be some that have a much harder time adjusting, and will go to great lengths for attention.

I'm sorry if I implied that Marine Corps was negligent, that wasn't my intention. You are correct in that she did have opportunities to obtain help, and apparently did not use them. In reference to her having a Victim Advocate, that area gets a little hazy. I know that she was assigned a uniform victim advocate (UVA) but it's possible she did not have a VA from the Onslow Women's Center. I can't really go into details, but because she did not actually have a SANE kit done, there is a distict possibility that the way the policy was written at the time that the VA was not called. UVA's and VA are not the same thing, and have different levels of training.

Respectfully, I never said that she wasn't troubled, and I agree that her alleged lies were not "normal". From what I know, she appears to have extremely insecure and have a deep seated need for attention. My point was that doesn't mean she was mentally ill by clinical standards.

There is a huge stigma attached to mental illness, and my fear is that the defense will use this to create a scenario in which Cesar Laurean's actions can be mitigated in the jury's mind by claiming that he's a wonderful guy who was pushed beyond his limits by a crazy woman. I'm not saying she was perfect, or that he raped her, but I do think that, in the beginning of their relationship, he may have taken advantage of her vulnerabilities and continued to do so in order to achieve his goal, which was apparently to get her to go Mexico.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I stumbled across this today:

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/anderson.cooper.360/blog/208/01/randi-kaye-360-correspondent-i-spent.html

I thought the part about him not wearing a ring, as well as Maria finding out about his marriage shortly before the rape allegations to be interesting. Certainly not definitive, but interesting none the less.

 

[GeekyGirl]

Also, I forgot to add that from what I understand, Maria was counseled after the money incident in her MOS school. A counseling statement is a minor disciplinary action meaning that she was spoken to about the incident, and/or documents any corrective action that is to occur. Very different from mental health counseling. She may have received that as well, but I haven't been able to find any references to such.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I guess on this one we will just have to agree to disagree.

I think she was a very disturbed young woman. It wouldn't surprise me if she had shown these traits throughout most of her life.

I just don't believe anyone took advantage of Maria. Her friends said she was the type that couldn't be bullied. I think that was one of the reasons she had the tenacity to lie to the Corps too without blinking an eye. It didn't seem to faze her even though she had to realize she was in a very structured environments where rules are everything. Imo Maria wasn't intimidated by anyone nor feared anyone.

I don't know what type of counseling she received when she stole the money. I read it was for 6 months.

Topsail and Panthera, I am depending on you to keep me updated on the case.

I will be back at the end of the week and try to catch up although Dewey said his CIC will probably be over by Tuesday.

I know how this one is going to turnout but I do think so far it has been a very interesting trial.

I will miss all of you!:blowkiss:



IMO

 

[STEADFAST]

IMO, any issues that Maria may or may not have had are irrelevant.

Cesar is a liar, a cheat, a coward, a thief and, IMO, a murderer. He betrayed everybody, including the Marine Corps. The fact that the WO in charge of him thought at one time that he was a good Marine carries no weight with me. He started this mess by cheating on his wife, tried to solve it by hiding Maria away, and when that didn't work, he killed her. There's nothing that Maria's been accused of doing that even comes close.

This is just the old attacking the victim defense.

 

[GeekyGirl]

Certainly, Ocean. I realize that I'm completely biased in my opinions... I see so much craziness that if I didn't lean towards giving these kids the benefit of the doubt, I'd go a little nuts myself.

Enjoy your anniversary vacation!

Completely off topic... I was chatting with a LE buddy of mine tonight about the trial, and when I brought up the issue of the first degree charge and premeditation, he said he thinks Hudson's strategy is to argue the felony murder rule... Not sure the exact implications in this case, but I had completely forgotten he was charged with robbery w/ a deadly weapon.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Have an absolutely GREAT vacation, oceanblueyes!

 

[LaLaw2000]

I swear, I'm not trying to pick on you Ocean, but this is an interesting comment. I agree that murder seems to be out of character for Cesar, and I really don't think he's a cold blooded person who's first thought was " if I kill her, all this goes away". I do however, think he was an outstanding Marine who had the potential for extremely successful career. I think he loved being a Marine, and was probably aware that his chances of having similar success in the civilian sector were pretty slim. I also believe he made a stupid mistake and got involved with a young girl who lacked some emotional maturity and self esteem and things got out of control.

He was going to have a hard time refuting the rape allegation without admitting to adultery and fraternazation, both of which could potentially affect his career. The pregnancy added an additional complication, as I do believe that he at least thought there was a possibility the kid was his. The Marine testified yesterday that in Cesar's mind, the solution to the problem was basically for Maria to go away. I seriously doubt he wanted to hurt her, but he wanted her gone (to Mexico) so that he would not have to answer for his actions to the Corps.

I think it's possible that he tried to convince Maria to run away by saying he would join her, and for awhile it looked like she was going to go along with it. She bought the bus ticket, and he started to believe it might really all just go away. At some point on the 14th she returned to his house, and if she told him that she changed her mind about leaving, the threat to his career, his life is back. As previously demonstrated, he just wants to make it all go away.

I don't think he plotted for months, weeks or days to kill her, but when she showed back up and he knew his plan wasn't going to work, I think he got desperate. He may have seen her murder as his only way of salvaging his life, but if he picked up that crowbar and swung it with the intent to "make her go away" it's premeditated. One single blow to her head is, to me, more indicative of a calculated attack, than the actions of a "crime of passion" snapping.

I absolutely 100 percent agree with your post, GeekyGirl.

And premeditation can take only seconds or minutes. I believe it was an act of desperation rather than a crime of passion. I have been following crimes for years and years and cannot remember a successful criime of passion defense where that person did not come upon the other cheating or in the company of another. Hard to explain, but hope you know what I mean.

I will buy an act of desperation but not a crime of passion.

JMO

 

[GeekyGirl]

In a previous post I mentioned that a friend suggested that the DA's strategy in this case may be to try and prove that CL is guilty of first degree murder under the felony murder rule, rather than trying to prove premeditation. The felony murder rule basically says that if the murder is committed in conjunction with another serious felony, it is considered first degree murder, despite a lack of premeditation. So what felony applies in this case? The charge of Robbery with a dangerous weapon.

Initially I thought this was a little far fetched, as I don't think anyone believes that Robbery was the motive behind the head blow, but after doing a little research, it turns out that the DA's office may have a pretty good case. If he's guilty of the murder, CL sure picked the wrong state to do it in. Unlike most states, the NC Supreme Court has consistently upheld the following things (if you're interested in the relevant case law just ask):

1. It doesn't matter if the taking of another person's possession occurs before, during or after a show of force.

2. It doesn't matter if the robbery occurs after the person is dead, a body is still considered a "person" in the eyes of the law.

3. It doesn't matter whether the intent to deprive a person of their property occurs before or after a show of force with a deadly weapon.

4. Juries can be instructed that they may decide whether a first degree murder has been committed based on either premeditation or the felony murder rule.

So basically if Hudson can convince the jury that CL did in fact murder Maria, but he doesn't prove premeditation, if he can prove that CL deprived her of her property (her wallet, car, money, etc) at the same time of the murder (took her keys, wallet etc off the body), even if it was an afterthought, then the felony murder would apply, and CL should be considered guilty of first degree murder according to the law.

All I can say is wow, NC is one freaking harsh state.

 

[panthera]

(respectfully snipped)

Topsail and Panthera, I am depending on you to keep me updated on the case.

I will be back at the end of the week and try to catch up although Dewey said his CIC will probably be over by Tuesday.

I know how this one is going to turnout but I do think so far it has been a very interesting trial.

I will miss all of you!:blowkiss:



IMO

Have a wonderful vacation and we'll keep you updated!! :blowkiss:

 

[Topsail Girl]

Hi all!! I've not long gotten home from the beach and I can't tell you how many times I thought of this trial over the weekend. On Saturday, my daughter was at the PX ALONE and it really really upset me to find that out. Her boyfriend is in Cali for training and she decided to go to the PX for some shopping. She knows about Maria and she knows about my feelings for the base. I really do understand that every Marine stationed there is not out to hurt or kill a young woman, but this case is just to close to my heart to not have the lump in my throat when ever my daughter is aboard the base.

Ocean, enjoy your vacation. I'll do my best to keep the notes up to date. Monday's are hectic for me at work so I may not post from my notes till late afternoon but I promise I will be listening.

Everyone has had such a great discussion with out any bickering or finger pointing and I just have to say THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH for keeping this thread on topic and a joy to come and read!!!!

Goodnight and I'll check in tomorrow as soon as I can post

 

[GeekyGirl]

Shhh... Don't let anyone hear you call it a PX In all seriousness Topsail Girl, 99% of the male Marines on this base are wonderful people, and I honestly couldn't think of a safer place to be as a single female. I know it's hard, as a Mom, not to worry... My Mom did too when I told her I had taken a job on the base and was moving to Jacksonville. I was 25 at the time, and I've been here for 5 years now, and lived alone the whole time. Never once have I felt unsafe on the base, and certainly never in the exchange in the middle of the day. Heck, half the time I leave my car unlocked. It's funny, last time I was home I almost had a door smack me in the face because I'm so used to having them held open for me. In my experience, most of the bad situations are domestic in nature, or involve people engaging in high risk behavior.

Thank you again for all your hard work. I'll be anxiously awaiting any news, since this seems to be my only source of it at work. I too, am enjoying the intelligent, rationale discussion on this forum and I thank you all for being so friendly and welcoming.

 

[dgfred]

Is it possible that he lead her on until he knew she had bought that bus ticket, then intentionally persuaded her to come back, or even set that up in advance, like maybe "come back after you have the ticket and I'll have some cash for you to take", then offed her in the garage with Maria never seeing it coming. Maybe he was banking on her body NEVER being found and everyone just thinking she went to Mexico and dropped off the radar. This could answer the mystery of why she would go back that second time and the second visit did NOT match up with the first.

Interesting theory. I believe that the 2nd trip was totally unexpected... that is why it ended the way it did. Too tuff to kill her in his house and dispose of the body in the back yard without being caught. I think maybe she changed her mind about going to Mexico, and came back and told him so. Maybe even adding that the baby wasn't his.

 

[lonetraveler]

Just want to thank y'all for keeping me up to date. I had planned to be here with you throughout the trial but a bit of unplanned surgery changed that. I really regret not buying a laptop when I purchased my computer.......anyway, can't sit for very long at my computer desk but I try to check in as much as I can. Y'all are doing a great job giving the play by play testimony.

I have always been suspicious about the wife's involvement in the cleanup activities. I just do not see how she could not know that something bad had happened in her very own house. I think that the second trip to his house was because Maria changed her mind about skipping out of town and realized that he was getting rid of her. She returned to his house to confront him and they had a very heated exchange of words. To hurt him, she told him that he was not the baby's father. With everything she had put him through, he most likely "lost" it and beat her to death. Wife comes home, realizes that something is very wrong and Cesar breaks down and confesses as to what has happened. I'm waiting to see if my opinion will change.

 

[Topsail Girl]

Laurean defense: Divining rod technique muddled crime scene

GOLDSBORO — Cesar Laurean's defense counsel has used Onslow County Sheriff Ed Brown's use of a divining rod in looking for the body of a missing pregnant Marine to cast doubt on the processing of the crime scene where her body was discovered.

http://www.jdnews.com/news/muddled-81608-crime-rod.html

 

[passionflower]

No matter what a person does, no one deserves to be murdered.
I never blame the victim.
No one has the right to murder, rape, abuse ...........

 

[GeekyGirl]

It occurred to me today as I was driving on base, are we at all sure that Maria made two trips to the Laurean's home on the 14th? The only documented references to the two trips I can find are from Cesar's statement to his wife... which is highly suspect anyway. If they got off work at noon, especially on a payday Friday, right before Christmas, it would have taken Cesar at least an hour to get home (the ATM he stopped at is on the way) Maria lived in the other direction, and unless she followed CL home, it's highly unlikely that she drove home, drove to his house, and drove home again, to the ATM, the bus station and finally his house again. Based on the location of her ATM withdrawal at 4 something, it's safe to assume she was coming from home. From the ATM, there isn't enough time for her to have driven to CL's house and then to the bus station. Trust me, if you've ever sat on 24 or Western Blvd in payday, holiday traffic you'd understand why this seems far-fetched. (and yes I realize there are other ways to get from point A to point B, but still, sitting in traffic would have been horrendous, especially if you were that far along) I know Capt Sutherland aknowledged that there was cell phone contact between the two after they got off work, but I haven't seen a credible source verify that there were two visits to his house. Still possible of course, but I think we kind of have to throw out everything CL and CSL claim happened if we to know the truth.

 

[teedie2]

I can't help comparing this trial with the trials for the killers of Channon and Chris.

It is so hard to hear some things that are being said, and this makes it hard to follow. Well, for me, I wonder if others are having a problem. I'm hard of hearing, which doesn't help, but have tried listening with earphones, and that wasn't much better.

After waiting so long for this trial to begin, it seemed like they would never get to it, and the audio and a lot of the visual are very disappointing.

When showing the photo exhibits, I believe exhibit 91 was done, and then there was a very long wait, and it looked like everyone was just sitting there. There was a lot of sound noise, but I couldn't make out anyone speaking. Then, all of a sudden, they started talking about another exhibit.

A poster said that there are long waits because witnesses are sequestered, but this is the same witness with the exhibits, and I can't figure out what the reason would be for a long pause. (Unless, of course, someone else is speaking and I just can't hear them.)

OK, the main thing is justice, and my complaints are nothing in view of that. Just wish I could follow it better.

 

[LaLaw2000]

teedie2, my sound is good and the waits at times are because the jury is looking at evidence pics.

I am very surprised at the amount of blood drops that were still visible even after a cleanup of the scene. I shudder to think what poor Maria went through.

 

[LaLaw2000]

GeekyGirl, I am not sure about Maria leaving and having gone back to Laurean's home either. It is just me, but I really believe that once she got there that afternoon, she never left.

With it being a payday weekend as well as a Friday just days before Christmas, I am sure traffic was really bad.

I was also glad to see that white t-shirt that Cesar was wearing at the ATM in evidence. He actually thought no one would know it was him at the ATM. Then to just toss it in a basket in their bedroom? Not a very smart guy, IMO. I am so glad Cesar has to sit there and listen to and see all of this.

JMO