Cesar Laurean's Trial

[panthera]

Lol... I'm exactly what my name suggests, a total geek. I LOVE this kind of research.

I'm very glad you do! And again, thank you.

 

[Topsail Girl]

Ocean I'm glad to see you here and I hope you had a wonderful vacation. MACK TRUCK = I agree. Cesar's DNA could not be ruled out but if he cleaned the crow bar and Christina put it back in his truck without cleaning it well, then that could explain why. The Ward's also could not be excluded and they both admitted to touching the crow bar - AFTER they knew or suspected it might be the murder weapon. Hell WHO didn't handle that crowbar is what I was thinking earlier this week. I still do not know in my heart which of the Laurean's murdered Maria but one of them did and if one wants to take the fall for the other then that is just fine with me. As long as one or BOTH of them go down...

 

[panthera]

Ocean I'm glad to see you here and I hope you had a wonderful vacation. MACK TRUCK = I agree. Cesar's DNA could not be ruled out but if he cleaned the crow bar and Christina put it back in his truck without cleaning it well, then that could explain why. The Ward's also could not be excluded and they both admitted to touching the crow bar - AFTER they knew or suspected it might be the murder weapon. Hell WHO didn't handle that crowbar is what I was thinking earlier this week. I still do not know in my heart which of the Laurean's murdered Maria but one of them did and if one wants to take the fall for the other then that is just fine with me. As long as one or BOTH of them go down...

As for who actually wielded the crowbar and killed Maria, I'm not sure either. However, if not for Cesar's relationship with Maria - and I do believe there was one, despite the much-mentioned MPO - Maria wouldn't have been at his house that evening, even though it's uncertain just why she was there. So at least in that vein, I believe he is responsible for her not being alive today. MOO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Welcome back!!! Hopefully the jury will be able to put emotions aside, weigh the evidence, or lack thereof, and reach the appropriate verdict. Did you happen to read today's posts here regarding testimony that Maria was seen at the Christmas party? If that wasn't shocking! The crowbar made an appearance in court again today when it was handed to the Special Agent who was testifying for the defense, after she gave a physical description of Christina and stated they were about the same size. You did miss some moments.

Thank you.

I did scan that Panthera. What time did she come in. Could she have been looking for Cesar then?

I have always thought Christina was perfectly capable of swinging that crowbar with a mighty force. Heck I am 63 and I am still pretty strong. lol At her age I sure know I could have if I was in a fit of rage with adrenaline flowing like wine.

I just cant get out of my mind how angry a wife would be if she walked into her own home and found the woman there who had accused her husband of rape who was also blaming him for her pregnancy.

IMO

 

[panthera]

Thank you.

I did scan that Panthera. What time did she come in. Could she have been looking for Cesar then?

I have always thought Christina was perfectly capable of swinging that crowbar with a mighty force. Heck I am 63 and I am still pretty strong. lol At her age I sure know I could have if I was in a fit of rage with adrenaline flowing like wine.

I just cant get out of my mind how angry a wife would be if she walked into her own home and found the woman there who had accused her husband of rape who was also blaming him for her pregnancy.

IMO

One thing that was stressed is the Marine training - equal for men and women. So yes, she wouldn't have had any problem rendering the deadly blow to Maria's head, especially as you said, if enraged to find Maria in her house. I think most women would be in the same state of mind if that happened to us. As for the witness who saw Maria, when no one else seems to have, I also was thinking possibly she was looking for Cesar, and not seeing him there went to his house. It was the timing though when this witness says she was there - around 6-6:30pm - which could have had both women arriving at the house approximately the same time.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Ocean I'm glad to see you here and I hope you had a wonderful vacation. MACK TRUCK = I agree. Cesar's DNA could not be ruled out but if he cleaned the crow bar and Christina put it back in his truck without cleaning it well, then that could explain why. The Ward's also could not be excluded and they both admitted to touching the crow bar - AFTER they knew or suspected it might be the murder weapon. Hell WHO didn't handle that crowbar is what I was thinking earlier this week. I still do not know in my heart which of the Laurean's murdered Maria but one of them did and if one wants to take the fall for the other then that is just fine with me. As long as one or BOTH of them go down...

Hi there Top! So great to see my posting buddies.

I thought I read that Cesar's dna was ruled out but Christina's couldn't be ruled out? LOL! Maybe I read it too fast.

If he really was the one that used the crowbar and Christina wasnt involved I don't think he would give it to her to put back in his truck. Wives do a lot of things for their hubbies but putting tools back in a truck isn't something they commonly do imo.

If it was in the garage and evidently it was ....since the crime seem to happen there, then I think if she saw it there, she would have just left it there.

IMOO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

One thing that was stressed is the Marine training - equal for men and women. So yes, she wouldn't have had any problem rendering the deadly blow to Maria's head, especially as you said, if enraged to find Maria in her house. I think most women would be in the same state of mind if that happened to us. As for the witness who saw Maria, when no one else seems to have, I also was thinking possibly she was looking for Cesar, and not seeing him there went to his house. It was the timing though when this witness says she was there - around 6-6:30pm - which could have had both women arriving at the house approximately the same time.

OMG I missed that part!

WOW WOW WOW!

 

[GeekyGirl]

Welcome back Oceanblueeyes! Glad to hear you had a good trip

I'm starting to agree with you about that Mack truck sized hole. For a trial that I thought would deliver some answers, it's only left me with more questions. It's really hard for me to separate everything I've heard and read prior to the trial from what the jury actually heard, but I think I don't envy them one bit.

I really could live without any physical evidence if the circumstantial evidence overwhelmingly pointed to Cesar, but I just don't see where the state has convincingly proven that he was the only one with the means, motive and opportunity to commit the crime. There's just something hinky about the fact that the state did almost nothing to prove that it was even possible that Christina wasn't home when the murder occurred. Heck, I'm not even entirely sure they proved that they know when the murder occurred.

I, respectfully, disagree that the defense proved there was no contact between CL and ML, only that prosecution didn't present an overwhelming amount of evidence that it did. I think she got the plan to go to Mexico (via Texas) from somewhere, and given Cesar's previous statements, I don't think it's unreasonable to believe the idea came from him.

I was somewhat surprised at the decision not to include the lesser charge, and I'm sure that if he's convicted, it will become a point of appeal. IMO, no matter what her mental state, it wasn't enough provocation to constitute second degree murder, but I can easily understand where you may disagree.

As to the felony murder rule, while I'm not sure I agree with our state Supreme Court's interpretation of the law, it is the law, and therefore the DA is well within his rights to use it. Again, I foresee grounds for an appeal if he's convicted, though IMHO the case for failure to include a lesser charge is stronger.

Bottom line for me is, too many questions, not enough answers, and regardless of the outcome IMO at least one person with blood on their hands is probably going to walk away. It's a sad, sad story, no matter how you slice it.

 

[panthera]

Hi there Top! So great to see my posting buddies.

I thought I read that Cesar's dna was ruled out but Christina's couldn't be ruled out? LOL! Maybe I read it too fast.

If he really was the one that used the crowbar and Christina wasnt involved I don't think he would give it to her to put back in his truck. Wives do a lot of things for their hubbies but putting tools back in a truck isn't something they commonly do imo.

If it was in the garage and evidently it was ....since the crime seem to happen there, then I think if she saw it there, she would have just left it there.

IMOO

It was Christina's DNA that couldn't be ruled out; Cesar's is not on the crowbar. As for putting it back in his truck, maybe she could have if she was the one who cleaned it. MOO

 

[GeekyGirl]

Thank you.

I did scan that Panthera. What time did she come in. Could she have been looking for Cesar then?

I have always thought Christina was perfectly capable of swinging that crowbar with a mighty force. Heck I am 63 and I am still pretty strong. lol At her age I sure know I could have if I was in a fit of rage with adrenaline flowing like wine.

I just cant get out of my mind how angry a wife would be if she walked into her own home and found the woman there who had accused her husband of rape who was also blaming him for her pregnancy.

IMO

This. This picture resonates so strongly with me, more so even than him wielding the weapon.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Welcome back Oceanblueeyes! Glad to hear you had a good trip

I'm starting to agree with you about that Mack truck sized hole. For a trial that I thought would deliver some answers, it's only left me with more questions. It's really hard for me to separate everything I've heard and read prior to the trial from what the jury actually heard, but I think I don't envy them one bit.

I really could live without any physical evidence if the circumstantial evidence overwhelmingly pointed to Cesar, but I just don't see where the state has convincingly proven that he was the only one with the means, motive and opportunity to commit the crime. There's just something hinky about the fact that the state did almost nothing to prove that it was even possible that Christina wasn't home when the murder occurred. Heck, I'm not even entirely sure they proved that they know when the murder occurred.

I, respectfully, disagree that the defense proved there was no contact between CL and ML, only that prosecution didn't present an overwhelming amount of evidence that it did. I think she got the plan to go to Mexico (via Texas) from somewhere, and given Cesar's previous statements, I don't think it's unreasonable to believe the idea came from him.

I was somewhat surprised at the decision not to include the lesser charge, and I'm sure that if he's convicted, it will become a point of appeal. IMO, no matter what her mental state, it wasn't enough provocation to constitute second degree murder, but I can easily understand where you may disagree.

As to the felony murder rule, while I'm not sure I agree with our state Supreme Court's interpretation of the law, it is the law, and therefore the DA is well within his rights to use it. Again, I foresee grounds for an appeal if he's convicted, though IMHO the case for failure to include a lesser charge is stronger.

Bottom line for me is, too many questions, not enough answers, and regardless of the outcome IMO at least one person with blood on their hands is probably going to walk away. It's a sad, sad story, no matter how you slice it.

I had a wonderful romantic five days and I am so tired it is hard for my brain to even think right. lol

But surely if the Prosecutor had evidence through witnesses or phone records of contact between the two of them he would have entered it.

Now I don't believe any contact was made. I think for some unexplainable nonsensical irrational reason she showed up out of the blue.

I have even been pondering who the real father is. Was that disclosed? Is he Hispanic too? There are a lot of Hispanics in the Corps in Jacksonville. Could his family have been from Mexico too?

The case is over except closing arguments but I still have as many or more questions as I did before it began.

IMO

 

[GeekyGirl]

While I realize that it's not admissible in a court of law, does anyone else feel that Christina's actions throughout this whole thing have seemed somewhat cold and calculated? I do understand that she's had legal representation since the whole thing started to break, which could account for a lot of that, but still... There's just something... I don't know, off? about the way she's played the whole thing. Am I crazy for thinking that?

 

[panthera]

This. This picture resonates so strongly with me, more so even than him wielding the weapon.

It does with me also. Male on female murder where there's a relationship is usually something more like strangulation, not picking up the most convenient bludgeoning weapon, unless the perp is trying to make it look like an intruder committed the crime. MOO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It was Christina's DNA that couldn't be ruled out; Cesar's is not on the crowbar. As for putting it back in his truck, maybe she could have if she was the one who cleaned it. MOO

Hmmmmmmm, maybe he didn't even know she had had her hands on it.

So it belonged to him? Why would he be carrying a crowbar in his truck? I could understand if it was a tire tool.

imo

 

[panthera]

I had a wonderful romantic five days and I am so tired it is hard for my brain to even think right. lol

But surely if the Prosecutor had evidence through witnesses or phone records of contact between the two of them he would have entered it.

Now I don't believe any contact was made. I think for some unexplainable nonsensical irrational reason she showed up out of the blue.

I have even been pondering who the real father is. Was that disclosed? Is he Hispanic too? There are a lot of Hispanics in the Corps in Jacksonville. Could his family have been from Mexico too?

The case is over except closing arguments but I still have as many or more questions as I did before it began.

IMO

Nothing about who or where the baby's father was unless what she told the ticket agent at the bus terminal had any truth in it. I do think there was contact between Cesar & Maria as to planning for her to go to El Paso, however, at the time she showed up that evening, I believe that was unplanned and he wouldn't have taken the risk of his wife being there. MOO

 

[GeekyGirl]

I had a wonderful romantic five days and I am so tired it is hard for my brain to even think right. lol

But surely if the Prosecutor had evidence through witnesses or phone records of contact between the two of them he would have entered it.

Now I don't believe any contact was made. I think for some unexplainable nonsensical irrational reason she showed up out of the blue.

I have even been pondering who the real father is. Was that disclosed? Is he Hispanic too? There are a lot of Hispanics in the Corps in Jacksonville. Could his family have been from Mexico too?

The case is over except closing arguments but I still have as many or more questions as I did before it began.

IMO

I do here what you're saying, and yes, I'd really like to think if there was evidence of phone calls
or what not, they would have brought it in, but then again I also would have thought they would have had a MUCH stronger case before going to trial, so who knows? They did mention something early on about proof of contact between the two, but alas, nothing. Someone at work mentioned that perhaps it was a call to or from a landline in their house, and the DA didn't bring it up because it could point to Christina as well, but again, that's purely speculation.

I'll be interested to see what comes out in the wrongful death suit...

 

[GeekyGirl]

Hmmmmmmm, maybe he didn't even know she had had her hands on it.

So it belonged to him? Why would he be carrying a crowbar in his truck? I could understand if it was a tire tool.

imo

There was something about it being from work, I think, something about it being special ordered. Though as to why a personnel clerk would need a crow bar... :waitasec: hmm... Yeah, nope. I've got nothing.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It does with me also. Male on female murder where there's a relationship is usually something more like strangulation, not picking up the most convenient bludgeoning weapon, unless the perp is trying to make it look like an intruder committed the crime. MOO

I think a woman would use a blunt object to strike out rather than a male who could have easily choked the life out of a pregnant woman.

This came out of no where imo. The autopsy injury of the one blow has always haunted me. Something just doesn't fit. It is a direct strike against the left side of Maria's face and if she saw it coming she would have turned her head to the right to deflect the blow. It has always made me feel she was looking straight on as if she was talking to someone else and, without forewarning, someone came up and swung the crowbar giving her no time to react.

IIMO

 

[panthera]

There was something about it being from work, I think, something about it being special ordered. Though as to why a personnel clerk would need a crow bar... :waitasec: hmm... Yeah, nope. I've got nothing.

I remember that part also, something about it being Marine issued.

 

[GeekyGirl]

I think a woman would use a blunt object to strike out rather than a male who could have easily choked the life out of a pregnant woman.

This came out of no where imo. The autopsy injury of the one blow has always haunted me. Something just doesn't fit. It is a direct strike against the left side of Maria's face and if she saw it coming she would have turned her head to the right to deflect the blow. It has always made me feel she was looking straight on as if she was talking to someone else and, without forewarning, someone came up and swung the crowbar giving her no time to react.

IIMO

If you could see me, you'd laugh because I'm practically jumping up and down in agreement. You just put into words exactly what's been nagging at me regarding her injury. The fact that she didn't turn... I can't remember what the condition of her hands and arms were for the autopsy... But wouldn't you think she could at least get an arm up if she saw a crowbar coming at her?