Cesar Laurean's Trial

[oceanblueeyes]

I believe the sightings too, only the 'party' one is suspect in my mind.

Man, wouldnt that be a game changer if she really DID see Maria?

Was it ever confirmed if Christina was at the party?

imo

 

[GeekyGirl]

I don't know.

All I can go on is what was presented as evidence in the trial now and they could find no link to any communication between the two.

I really do think Maria got a wild idea to just come there that day right out of the blue. I think that will remain one of the biggest unanswered questions concerning this case. Why in the world would she come to his own home????

IMO

I'm still pretty torn as to the "out of the blue" theory. I'm not sure that he knew she was coming on that exact day, but I do think he had been in contact with her somehow. Imo, she got the idea to go to El Paso/Mexico from somewhere, and CL's friend testifying that he wanted to meet with her in September shows some intention to violate the MPO. MOO

 

[GeekyGirl]

Man, wouldnt that be a game changer if she really DID see Maria?

Was it ever confirmed if Christina was at the party?

imo

If Maria was actually at the Christmas party IMO that would a HUGE game changer... which is why I think it's so odd that they only have one eyewitness.

No confirmation, at the trial at least, that Christina was at the party either, which is another one of those loose ends that bugs me.

 

[raisincharlie]

Multiple sightings testified to I'll believe since the witness(es) couldn't be just "mistaken" on several occasions, but I don't think a plan (for Maria to go to Mexico with Cesar's family) could've been discussed at any length between Cesar & Maria while at the PX or dry cleaners. So I'm on the fence on this issue, believing parts of the state and defense theories. MOO

Was it clarified at trial if Maria knew this Ward witness ? Ward said that CL indicated this was the plan and you have the bus station attendent saying the same thing as Maria told it. Seems to me the likelyhood of the bus attendent knowing Ward to relay this story would be an incredible long shot. If CL really told this to Ward, indicates to me CL would have had time to discuss it with Maria, why else would she be buying a ticket to El Paso ?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm still pretty torn as to the "out of the blue" theory. I'm not sure that he knew she was coming on that exact day, but I do think he had been in contact with her somehow. Imo, she got the idea to go to El Paso/Mexico from somewhere, and CL's friend testifying that he wanted to meet with her in September shows some intention to violate the MPO. MOO

I respect your opinion highly GG but I do think she would. I think Maria was an emotionally unstable young woman who did not think logically before making serious decisions.

We don't know if El Paso is even connected to Cesar. If she had sex with Cesar twice then maybe she was attracted to Hispanic males and for all we know the real father of her child may have ties to El Paso.

That is the problem with this case nothing was definitively linked up imo.

Now we are left to speculate and the darn case is finished. What a shame.

Even though I will reiterate, they are going to find him guilty, imo.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If Maria was actually at the Christmas party IMO that would a HUGE game changer... which is why I think it's so odd that they only have one eyewitness.

No confirmation, at the trial at least, that Christina was at the party either, which is another one of those loose ends that bugs me.

Hmmmmmmmm so the last we know of Christina's whereabouts is when she picked up A at 5:20 pm.

How far is the house from the day care center?

IMO

 

[GeekyGirl]

Was it clarified at trial if Maria knew this Ward witness ? Ward said that CL indicated this was the plan and you have the bus station attendent saying the same thing as Maria told it. Seems to me the likelyhood of the bus attendent knowing Ward to relay this story would be an incredible long shot. If CL really told this to Ward, indicates to me CL would have had time to discuss it with Maria, why else would she be buying a ticket to El Paso ?

Ward was the Marine who had possesion of the crowbar and went to Lowe's with CL on the 16th. LCPL Costa (sp?) was the Marine who testified that CL wanted him to help arrange a "run-in" with Maria, and that CL planned to have her go to Mexico. From his testimony, it seems that Costa was at least aqquainted with, or knew of Maria.

 

[GeekyGirl]

Hmmmmmmmm so the last we know of Christina's whereabouts is when she picked up A at 5:20 pm.

How far is the house from the day care center?

IMO

Give me one second and I'll figure that out.

 

[panthera]

Was it clarified at trial if Maria knew this Ward witness ? Ward said that CL indicated this was the plan and you have the bus station attendent saying the same thing as Maria told it. Seems to me the likelyhood of the bus attendent knowing Ward to relay this story would be an incredible long shot. If CL really told this to Ward, indicates to me CL would have had time to discuss it with Maria, why else would she be buying a ticket to El Paso ?

This is my position. I believe Cesar & Maria had planned for Maria to go to El Paso, but in order to do so, they needed to be in more communication with each other than just meeting up at the PX or dry cleaners. Yet there isn't any evidence that they were. So the question about disposabe phones is a good one, imo. BTW, it was Costa who Cesar discussed Mexico with. MOO

 

[GeekyGirl]

Hmmmmmmmm so the last we know of Christina's whereabouts is when she picked up A at 5:20 pm.

How far is the house from the day care center?

IMO

Sorry, I just wanted to double check that I had the right place... Without traffic, about 10-15 minutes, with traffic, maybe 30?

 

[panthera]

Sorry, I just wanted to double check that I had the right place... Without traffic, about 10-15 minutes, with traffic, maybe 30?

And the evening of 12/14/07 what would traffic be like? :waitasec:

 

[dgfred]

Bad, someone said it was pay-day too. Maybe marinewife? :waitasec:

 

[GeekyGirl]

I respect your opinion highly GG but I do think she would. I think Maria was an emotionally unstable young woman who did not think logically before making serious decisions.

We don't know if El Paso is even connected to Cesar. If she had sex with Cesar twice then maybe she was attracted to Hispanic males and for all we know the real father of her child may have ties to El Paso.

That is the problem with this case nothing was definitively linked up imo.

Now we are left to speculate and the darn case is finished. What a shame.

Even though I will reiterate, they are going to find him guilty, imo.

IMO

Thank you and I also highly respect yours. I do hear what you're saying about the loose ties and the lack of proof that they communicated. However, IMHO, when I hear hoofbeats, I tend to think horses, not zebras. The fact that CL's friend testified that CL's plan was to send her to Mexico, and the fact that she then bought a ticket to El Paso (which is only a hop skip and a jump from Mexico), barring any evidence that she had any other reason to do this, makes me believe that somehow, CL was in touch with her. Again, that's only my opinion and I realize the state didn't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that this was how it went down, but IMO it's fair to say that it isn't a HUGE leap from point A to point B.

 

[GeekyGirl]

And the evening of 12/14/07 what would traffic be like? :waitasec:

It was bad... I remember because I closed on my house that day and was running all over town trying to get stuff done, and then driving back and forth moving boxes.

 

[dgfred]

This is my position. I believe Cesar & Maria had planned for Maria to go to El Paso, but in order to do so, they needed to be in more communication with each other than just meeting up at the PX or dry cleaners. Yet there isn't any evidence that they were. So the question about disposabe phones is a good one, imo. BTW, it was Costa who Cesar discussed Mexico with. MOO

Me too. I believe this is what caused the fatal confrontation... Maria deciding she WASN'T going afterall. That put Cesar up doo doo creek without a paddle.
Especially if he didn't know yet that he wasn't the father.

 

[raisincharlie]

Ward was the Marine who had possesion of the crowbar and went to Lowe's with CL on the 16th. LCPL Costa (sp?) was the Marine who testified that CL wanted him to help arrange a "run-in" with Maria, and that CL planned to have her go to Mexico. From his testimony, it seems that Costa was at least aqquainted with, or knew of Maria.

Yeah, I meant Costa - but it doesn't change the question or answer. If Costa relayed it to Maria for CL, which as I recall, the prosecution said did not happen because Costa called the plan "out there" - it still demonstrates that CL had the means to communicate things to Maria and was willing to do so.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Sorry, I just wanted to double check that I had the right place... Without traffic, about 10-15 minutes, with traffic, maybe 30?

Thank you. Sorry to bother you again but how long would it take for Maria to get from the bus station to Meadow Trail.

IMO

 

[GeekyGirl]

Which, now that I'm thinking about it, is also a little strange. If Christina picked up the baby, would she go straight to the party? That would make more sense, rather than back track to the house. So she picks up the child at 1720, drives maybe 30 minutes to get to the party on base... with parking etc. that puts her at the party at 1800. Assuming she got home at 1900 as she told police, that means she stayed at the party only 20-30 minutes, 40 minutes at best if she's a speed demon.

If he went, was she expecting CL to meet her there?

 

[panthera]

Something is going on inside the courtroom but there is no sound.......

 

[Marine wife]

Sound we need sound!!!!!!!!!!