Clinton David Brink, 43 & Cristen Amanda Brink, 41 found on trail - Devil's Den State Park, AR- 26 July, 2025 #2 *Arrest*

[AngTxGal]

HIPAA protects healthcare records. FERPA protects student education records. Neither protects employee records.

Absolutely, employee records are not protected by HIPPA or FERPA, so why would a school admin not document concerns before letting a young teacher go?
Maybe these are reasons?
- wrongful termination?
- defamation?
- the appearance that you can’t control things in your building?
Providing seasoned mentorship to young teachers would make a huge difference, IMO. The learning curve can be steep, the pay isn’t fantastic, and to do right by students it is a 10+ hour day. I remember how tough it was my first few year- and I was finishing up a masters thesis.

How flexible is a degree in Elementary Education? What else can you do if teaching isn’t a fit?
Graduate school to become admin- but you need three years teaching
Move from the classroom to coaching/ PE

OSU Elementary Education- interesting the pic on the page is a male teacher with young kids, (I expect that will be taken down soon)

Why elementary education at OSU?​

We integrate classroom curriculum with field experiences in schools that help you facilitate positive educational outcomes for your students. Upon degree completion, graduates are recommended to the Oklahoma State Department of Education for full teacher certification and are prepared to take certification exams in other states, if applicable. The high-quality reputation of our program makes graduates highly sought after for teaching positions in Oklahoma and beyond.

OSU has an online program for elementary education- interesting. As someone who has worked as a public school teacher, I cannot imagine being ready to work with students without completing social learning throughout a teaching certification program.

How big is the OSU elementary education program? I assume he would have to do observations, case studies, student teaching?

As I look back, I had a PE coach that was male and a male softball coach, and both of my kids had a PE coach and two subject area/ homeroom teachers who were male between 3rd-5th.

Pew Research- Key facts about public school teachers in the US
Men are especially unlikely to teach younger children: fewer than 3% of preschool and kindergarten teachers are men, compared to 20% of elementary and middle school teachers, and 43% of high school teachers.

If I was in a position to hire, I would be very careful with males in an elementary classroom. Females typically get experience with kids through babysitting, as daycare workers, camp counselors, volunteer coaching, and mentoring programs- that is what I did. So had worked with kids 3 years to high school before I graduated from college.
Males could get experience in these areas, and some do, but not commonly.

IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

I can find no evidence of him officially playing rugby anywhere except the statement from his alleged teammate.

I just watched an interview with a former rugby teammate, the video shows an image of them on the field together.
He evidently was a team leader.
This young man says he knew him all the way back to kindergarten.
I’m not going to doubt this ‘alleged’ teammate. He came forward, and I’m sure as this case moves forward and gets national attention, others will do the same.

KARK News Former teammate recounts shock after arrest

IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

This is the school where he had the insane looking photo ID. Also reported that he quit after the first day.

Absolutely, this faculty ID almost looks like a fake. Who would think such a look would be ok. This may also be his yearbook picture- so why was that allowed?

Someone wasn’t paying attention! This alone shows poor judgment IMO

Were all these tough looking ID images some attempt to intimidate parents?
It looks like an athlete photo, to intimidate the opponents.
Something is seriously wrong if he thought this was appropriate, or made sense, or would work.

It seems paranoid, delusional, more than slightly off.
Bipolar off meds?
Schizotypal personality disorder?

IMO

 

[FromGermany1]

Devil's Den Suspect Was Investigated at Prior Teaching Job

A previous investigation of Andrew James McGann found he exhibited poor professional judgment in the classroom

people.com

Following his arrest, a school district where he previously taught sent a letter to families, which was shared with PEOPLE, noting he had been placed on administrative leave in the spring of 2023. The district said it had investigated complaints of poor classroom management and poor professional judgment, specifically regarding alleged favoritism.

McGann resigned in 2023, after the investigation found McGann's classroom conduct to be below expectations, though the investigation found no evidence of inappropriate behavior towards students.

 

[AngTxGal]

This is the school where he had the insane looking photo ID. Also reported that he quit after the first day.

How could he work in North Texas and also Oklahoma in a full time teaching position?
I found out how… he left before the school year began.

Teacher accused in Arkansas double homicide resigned from Plano ISD after four days
Newsweek- Who is Andrew James McGann?

May 2022 Graduated from Oklahoma State University, Tulsa
2022 Substitute teacher, Tulsa, OK
2022-23 4th grade, Donald Elementary, Flower Mound, Lewisville ISD is north of Dallas, TX
- placed on admin leave, classroom management, judgement, favoritism, Resigned
2023-24 5th grade, Spring Creek Elementary, Broken Arrow, OK Resigned
2024-2025 Plano ISD- Resigned before school started
2024-25 5th grade, Sand Springs Elementary, Tulsa, OK Resigned
2025-26 Springdale ISD, AR was hired to teach school- 1st day of school Aug 11

This Lewisville parent and child’s experience is pretty damning!
August 2022, McGann introduced himself to families at the Lewisville ISD elementary school in a now-deleted Facebook post.
Marcum said her son had expressed discomfort with how McGann treated female students, claiming he gave them extra treats and kept some in his classroom alone during recess.
"Really, the tipping point for him, I think, was when he overheard Mr. McGann tell one of the little girls, 'If you were older, I would love to marry you,'" Marcum said. "That was the day he came home and started crying."

IMO

 

[indicolite22]

How could he work in North Texas and also Oklahoma in a full time teaching position?
I found out how… he left before the school year began.

Teacher accused in Arkansas double homicide resigned from Plano ISD after four days
Newsweek- Who is Andrew James McGann?

May 2022 Graduated from Oklahoma State University, Tulsa
2022 Substitute teacher, Tulsa, OK
2022-23 4th grade, Donald Elementary, Flower Mound, Lewisville ISD is north of Dallas, TX
- placed on admin leave, classroom management, judgement, favoritism
2023-24 5th grade, Spring Creek Elementary, Broken Arrow, OK
2024-2025 Plano ISD- resigned before school started
2024-25 5th grade, Sand Springs Elementary, Tulsa, OK
25-26 Springdale ISD, AR was hired to teach school- 1st day of school Aug 11

This Lewisville parent and child’s experience is pretty damning!
August 2022, McGann introduced himself to families at the Lewisville ISD elementary school in a now-deleted Facebook post.
Marcum said her son had expressed discomfort with how McGann treated female students, claiming he gave them extra treats and kept some in his classroom alone during recess.
"Really, the tipping point for him, I think, was when he overheard Mr. McGann tell one of the little girls, 'If you were older, I would love to marry you,'" Marcum said. "That was the day he came home and started crying."

IMO

2023-24 5th grade, Spring Creek Elementary, Broken Arrow, OK
2024-2025 Plano ISD- resigned before school started
2024-25 5th grade, Sand Springs Elementary, Tulsa, OK

So it was true that he resigned from Spring Creek Elementary to move out of state (as the school says in their statement). He then changed his mind and stayed in Oklahoma.

Andrew James McGann, who is accused of killing Clinton and Cristen Brink, held a teaching position in the North Texas district from Aug. 6 to Aug. 9, 2024. He resigned voluntarily before the first day of school on Aug. 13, 2024, and did not have direct contact with students, a district spokesperson said Friday.

Teacher accused in Arkansas double homicide resigned from Plano ISD after only 4 days in 2024, officials say

The 28-year-old man now charged with murder briefly worked in the district, passing background checks while never having contact with students.

www.cbsnews.com

There is a picture of him with the staff, taken on August 6, his first day.

 

[FromGermany1]

Arkansas double murder suspect Andy McGann originally from Chicago, went to Fenwick High School in Oak Park

The teacher arrested and charged with fatally stabbing a couple hiking with two of their children in an Arkansas state park has roots in the Chicago area.

www.cbsnews.com

McGann grew up in Chicago and, according to property records, at one point lived in the Garfield Ridge neighborhood with his family. At one point they moved out of the city, and in 2015 he graduated from Fenwick High School in Oak Park, Illinois.

Teacher accused in Arkansas double slaying grew up on Southwest Side, attended Fenwick High

Andrew James McGann, 28, who allegedly stabbed a couple to death at a state park in Arkansas over the weekend, had bounced from different teaching posts in several states.

chicago.suntimes.com

Andrew James McGann, 28, who allegedly stabbed a couple to death at a state park in Arkansas over the weekend, had bounced from different teaching posts in several states.

Pic of him in court.
Nice pic from High school yearbook.

 

[AngTxGal]

2023-24 5th grade, Spring Creek Elementary, Broken Arrow, OK
2024-2025 Plano ISD- resigned before school started
2024-25 5th grade, Sand Springs Elementary, Tulsa, OK

So it was true that he resigned from Spring Creek Elementary to move out of state (as the school says in their statement). He then changed his mind and stayed in Oklahoma.

Yeah, how many red flags does a male teacher need to have? The admins of these districts did not do anyone any favors, and there may be many children who have been impacted in his wake.

And, could he have resigned because parents brought issues to admin?
Just maybe he had issues with parents of children?
They keep complaining and he keeps being asked to resign, they are in the way, they won’t let him do what he wants with their children.

Children are open, without many boundaries, forgiving, innocent, accept most people with open hearts, assume the best, tell their teacher they love them, bring gifts, excused and fail to understand behaviors that many adults would know are WRONG. That is why children can be exploited and we must be diligent in keeping them away from predators.
Pervs take advantage, twist the smiles of children and openness into something disgusting.

Completely my own suspicions, but not base-less. All the red flags are there.
I assume there is a predation history with some child somewhere, likely many.
And I’m convinced this guy was planning to kidnap a child!

News Nation- Sense of relief in Arkansas after Andrew James McGann arrest
Tony Breuski interview- critical of education admin, and LE messaging regarding attacks

We must do better
IMO

 

[FromGermany1]

Teacher accused in Arkansas double slaying grew up on Southwest Side, attended Fenwick High

Andrew James McGann, 28, who allegedly stabbed a couple to death at a state park in Arkansas over the weekend, had bounced from different teaching posts in several states.

chicago.suntimes.com

McGann returned to Garfield Ridge two years ago to show his girlfriend the home where he grew up, according to Anthony Morales, a 71-year-old retired CTA maintenance worker who bought the home from the McGann family in 2020.


Morales said that his wife communicated with the McGann family during the period that they bought the home and that he only met Andrew McGann that one time. He said McGann told him who he was when he arrived unannounced with his girlfriend.

“I didn’t let him in the house. I just let him in the yard,” Morales said, adding that he believed the McGann family lived in the home for at least two decades before selling it to him.

 

[AngTxGal]

2023-24 5th grade, Spring Creek Elementary, Broken Arrow, OK
2024-2025 Plano ISD- resigned before school started
2024-25 5th grade, Sand Springs Elementary, Tulsa, OK

So it was true that he resigned from Spring Creek Elementary to move out of state (as the school says in their statement). He then changed his mind and stayed in Oklahoma.

Andrew James McGann, who is accused of killing Clinton and Cristen Brink, held a teaching position in the North Texas district from Aug. 6 to Aug. 9, 2024. He resigned voluntarily before the first day of school on Aug. 13, 2024, and did not have direct contact with students, a district spokesperson said Friday.

Teacher accused in Arkansas double homicide resigned from Plano ISD after only 4 days in 2024, officials say

The 28-year-old man now charged with murder briefly worked in the district, passing background checks while never having contact with students.

www.cbsnews.com

There is a picture of him with the staff, taken on August 6, his first day.

I’m wondering if he behaves differently if the principal is a male or female.
Most elementary school prinicipals are female.

Could he have been intimidated by a male principal in the school he was assigned to in Plano?
Or have some sense he would be watched more closely?

IMO

 

[FromGermany1]

Details emerge in hiker deaths in Devil's Den; school teacher charged with capital murder

A suspect was arrested and charged with murder in connection with a couple killed while hiking with their kids. But there are still many questions.

www.aol.com

 

[Hexe]

Bipolar off meds?

There is nothing that would point to the mood disorder in this man. Not even a single symptom. And I think we should not demonise further that disorder, it's just plain wrong.

Schizotypal personality disorder?

IMO

Same as above.

 

[Hexe]

How could he work in North Texas and also Oklahoma in a full time teaching position?
I found out how… he left before the school year began.

Teacher accused in Arkansas double homicide resigned from Plano ISD after four days
Newsweek- Who is Andrew James McGann?

May 2022 Graduated from Oklahoma State University, Tulsa
2022 Substitute teacher, Tulsa, OK
2022-23 4th grade, Donald Elementary, Flower Mound, Lewisville ISD is north of Dallas, TX
- placed on admin leave, classroom management, judgement, favoritism, Resigned
2023-24 5th grade, Spring Creek Elementary, Broken Arrow, OK Resigned
2024-2025 Plano ISD- Resigned before school started
2024-25 5th grade, Sand Springs Elementary, Tulsa, OK Resigned
2025-26 Springdale ISD, AR was hired to teach school- 1st day of school Aug 11

This Lewisville parent and child’s experience is pretty damning!
August 2022, McGann introduced himself to families at the Lewisville ISD elementary school in a now-deleted Facebook post.
Marcum said her son had expressed discomfort with how McGann treated female students, claiming he gave them extra treats and kept some in his classroom alone during recess.
"Really, the tipping point for him, I think, was when he overheard Mr. McGann tell one of the little girls, 'If you were older, I would love to marry you,'" Marcum said. "That was the day he came home and started crying."

IMO

Ssssso the dude kept rising one red flag after another and all the schools he was employed in did was playing "throw the hot potato". Like "this man is a creep, let's make him someone else's problem". That's not how it should work...

 

[Rational_Geographic]

I agree with the posters here suggesting schizotypal or schizoaffective disorder. Preliminarily those seem plausible, however we still need more information. I also agree there could have been some drastic change in medication regimen or dosage. I considered maybe his seemingly abrupt relocations for work caused some insurance issue perhaps? Just my guess.

As far as spotty records not following teachers from one employment to the next, I definitely do not agree with that as a practice. I saw a comparison on NewsNation with chomo clergy and churches trying to cover those instances up. Apparently they do the same thing in the healthcare profession when it comes to suspected "angels of death." I understand wanting to avoid a lawsuit but my god we have a serious problem in this world when the very institutions that we are supposed to trust are willing to endanger us for the sake of their bottom dollar. That should never happen to that extent.

However. Having said that, I'm not too terribly impressed so far with the information that's come out about his teaching jobs in Texas and Oklahoma. He resigned because of "poor classroom management" and showed favoritism to some female students? Either there's way more to these stories or they're nothingburgers in the context of the murders.

I'm not sure there's an easy fix to this Allen/Kohberger/Mcgann problem we have. Its certainly reassuring that recently it seems it's getting harder and harder for these perps to accomplish their heinous acts without being captured sooner rather than later because of available tech like phone cameras and drones and surveillance cams become more prevalent/affordable/ubiquitous. However in terms of prevention and our ability to frontrun this kind of thing, I don't feel like we've made much ground at all since the 70s in the US. Again maybe there isn't ever going to be an easy one. I will say if there is a way to intervene and save lives, at this early stage it has to start with accurate/relevant reporting being prioritized over sensationalism. These <modsnip> that are being given the spotlight on major media news outlets to make a big fuss because their son or daughter was being taught in a classroom or two over from Mcgann two years ago? That's not helpful in understanding what happened and why this happens.

 

[girlhasnoname]

seems to me if you have an odd personality, being a class room teacher- out in front of 20-30 sets of inquiring eyes every single day, would not be a great job- but then maybe people think elementary kids "will not notice" and can be bullied or cajoled. IMO. why have this as a career?

True, but it presents easy access to young children.

Look at John Wayne Gacy he played a clown for children, all the Priests that were prosecuted for child abuse in the Catholic Church, Boy Scout Leaders, Cult Leaders, etc. They know how to get close to their targets unfortunately.

JMO

 

[Serononin]

Kids are really good at picking up energy. What in the world was going on with this guy? Bipolar and off meds? Highs and lows.. sometimes best teacher ever, other times kids are creeped out. Happy and making jokes sometimes other times staring at parents and one word answers. Was he having serious mood swings from day to day or week to week? Was he on drugs or an alocholic and trying to self ween at times? I've seen some mention steroids, but recent photos don't really seem to suggest he was a weight lifter of any serious nature. I don't know, it's baffling. Usually with these killers everyone loved them and so they hid all their dirty secrets well or everyone had something bad to say or didn't really know the person at all. This one is all over the place.

IMO

I'm not even remotely an expert, and obviously these things vary between individuals, but I think that the swings between 'high' and 'low' with bipolar usually don't happen that fast. But of course if he was self-medicating, or not staying on meds consistently, that could probably be different

 

[Trino]

Absolutely, employee records are not protected by HIPPA or FERPA, so why would a school admin not document concerns before letting a young teacher go?
Maybe these are reasons?
- wrongful termination?
- defamation?
- the appearance that you can’t control things in your building?
Providing seasoned mentorship to young teachers would make a huge difference, IMO. The learning curve can be steep, the pay isn’t fantastic, and to do right by students it is a 10+ hour day. I remember how tough it was my first few year- and I was finishing up a masters thesis.

How flexible is a degree in Elementary Education? What else can you do if teaching isn’t a fit?
Graduate school to become admin- but you need three years teaching
Move from the classroom to coaching/ PE

OSU Elementary Education- interesting the pic on the page is a male teacher with young kids, (I expect that will be taken down soon)

Why elementary education at OSU?​

We integrate classroom curriculum with field experiences in schools that help you facilitate positive educational outcomes for your students. Upon degree completion, graduates are recommended to the Oklahoma State Department of Education for full teacher certification and are prepared to take certification exams in other states, if applicable. The high-quality reputation of our program makes graduates highly sought after for teaching positions in Oklahoma and beyond.

OSU has an online program for elementary education- interesting. As someone who has worked as a public school teacher, I cannot imagine being ready to work with students without completing social learning throughout a teaching certification program.

How big is the OSU elementary education program? I assume he would have to do observations, case studies, student teaching?

As I look back, I had a PE coach that was male and a male softball coach, and both of my kids had a PE coach and two subject area/ homeroom teachers who were male between 3rd-5th.

Pew Research- Key facts about public school teachers in the US
Men are especially unlikely to teach younger children: fewer than 3% of preschool and kindergarten teachers are men, compared to 20% of elementary and middle school teachers, and 43% of high school teachers.

If I was in a position to hire, I would be very careful with males in an elementary classroom. Females typically get experience with kids through babysitting, as daycare workers, camp counselors, volunteer coaching, and mentoring programs- that is what I did. So had worked with kids 3 years to high school before I graduated from college.
Males could get experience in these areas, and some do, but not commonly.

IMO

OSU online program. And we wonder why OK ranks so low in education.

 

[AngTxGal]

There is nothing that would point to the mood disorder in this man. Not even a single symptom. And I think we should not demonise further that disorder, it's just plain wrong.


Same as above.

I am not the only one who has suggested there may be mental illness related to a young man who has been described as normal and then now is not.
Of course I understand the expectation to provide evidence, as you don’t know me and I’m no expert.

Who is profiler John Kelly?
John Kelly is an internationally recognized criminal profiler and psychotherapist whose expertise has been valued in over 100 serial murder cases. Some of the more notorious cases include the Long Island Serial Killer, the Atlantic City Serial Murders, the Green River Killer, the I-70 Serial Killer and the Golden State Killer.

Profiler John Kelly- Who is the Devil’s Den Killer?
Video description: Two parents murdered. Two children left behind. The Devil’s Den Killer struck in broad daylight, and he may still be out there. John Kelly takes us deep into the profile of a possible schizophrenic predator, unpacking his disturbing behavior and what it tells us about his next move. Our true crime fans won't want to miss this emotional and urgent investigation.

Some of us have experience watching a young adult decline as a mental illness takes over, and the difficulty they face in regulating meds and dealing with side effects.
But I am certainly no expert

IMO

 

[Charlot123]

I agree with the posters here suggesting schizotypal or schizoaffective disorder. Preliminarily those seem plausible, however we still need more information. I also agree there could have been some drastic change in medication regimen or dosage. I considered maybe his seemingly abrupt relocations for work caused some insurance issue perhaps? Just my guess.

As far as spotty records not following teachers from one employment to the next, I definitely do not agree with that as a practice. I saw a comparison on NewsNation with chomo clergy and churches trying to cover those instances up. Apparently they do the same thing in the healthcare profession when it comes to suspected "angels of death." I understand wanting to avoid a lawsuit but my god we have a serious problem in this world when the very institutions that we are supposed to trust are willing to endanger us for the sake of their bottom dollar. That should never happen to that extent.

However. Having said that, I'm not too terribly impressed so far with the information that's come out about his teaching jobs in Texas and Oklahoma. He resigned because of "poor classroom management" and showed favoritism to some female students? Either there's way more to these stories or they're nothingburgers in the context of the murders.

I'm not sure there's an easy fix to this Allen/Kohberger/Mcgann problem we have. Its certainly reassuring that recently it seems it's getting harder and harder for these perps to accomplish their heinous acts without being captured sooner rather than later because of available tech like phone cameras and drones and surveillance cams become more prevalent/affordable/ubiquitous. However in terms of prevention and our ability to frontrun this kind of thing, I don't feel like we've made much ground at all since the 70s in the US. Again maybe there isn't ever going to be an easy one. I will say if there is a way to intervene and save lives, at this early stage it has to start with accurate/relevant reporting being prioritized over sensationalism. These <modsnip> that are being given the spotlight on major media news outlets to make a big fuss because their son or daughter was being taught in a classroom or two over from Mcgann two years ago? That's not helpful in understanding what happened and why this happens.

Not commenting on the diagnosis because I don’t know, I’d like to know why he chose education as the profession?

Aside from women who adore kids and want to be mothers, too often people may choose unsuitable profession due to personal experience. Example: a brilliant young man destined to become an engineer had a nervous breakdown, several years of professional confusion and was saved by a great therapist and now wants to be a therapist. He is shy and his success in the field is questionable but the motivation is clear. He was saved, he wants to do the same.

If you think about a not-so-sociable person choosing the field of a teacher, one wonders, did he have some isolated issue (e.g, dyslexia) and views the teachers as “saviors”? Because he obviously struggles with the social part of school. What pushed him?

 

[AngTxGal]

I would also imagine she was thinking someone that is stabbing her husband is likely going to run after the encounter. Who would think the guy was sticking around to stab more people? I just think instinct for most people would be to run after they killed someone and for some reason he hangs around.

One thing I do wonder is if he was leaving the same way she and the girls did, maybe she encountered him some distance away from her husband?

I too understand going back to help.

Regarding how he got out of there to his car. I too was wondering how he didn’t pass the little girls if it was an out and back trail.

I took a look at Devil’s Den Trial, it is a 1.5 mile loop.
I believe this is where they were- the trail is described as 2-3 hours. That is a slow hike

It has two trail heads- one looks to be near the visitor center. Map
If he left out of the east exit- he too would have to get back to that visitor center, or he was parked somewhere else and used that exit.

Devil’s Den Trail- overview
If you scroll and then click on View Map next to Get Directions, you can see it is a loop and looks pretty flat but is a forested area not open.

It is possible he went through the woods back to his car rather than stay on the trail?

IMO