CLUES: how to find Susan

[x_files]

If he was poisoning her with something, it could be the side effects of handling the chemical, too.

GOOD, I didn't think of that! So many unanswered questions it's frustrating!

 

[Fairy1]

I think maybe Susan is much closer to their UT home than we believe.

 

[Kimster]

I just watched and listened to the first interview with JP (on previous page). He mentioned Pony Express. I googled a map of Pony Express National Historical Trail, and it goes through Utah. Could this lead to a narrowing down of specific campsites, mines, etc?
A shot in the dark, but thought I'd throw it out there.

Hmmmmmm..... I think it's certainly an area to consider.

There were two things that KC said that made me want the area where Caylee was found searched very early on (before she was found). What her friend said about the pet cemetery and when KC said she felt she was close to home.

I was half mad when they found Caylee right there when I'd been sitting in my chair here in Oregon wishing someone would search there for months. So I do believe in checking out ALL these little clues!!!

 

[Oriah]

The Utah portion of the Pony Express now more or less follows I-80, I-84, route 65, and then back on I-80. There's also Camp Floyd, in Fairfield.
It's a little over 250 miles total, iirc.
Maybe we could map out routes of travel from their home to vehicle access points along the way, starting with closest?

ETA: Trying to map these areas out, and wondering if the boys ever mentioned anything about the 'camping trip' that might pertain to elevation changes or 'swervyness'? Motion sickness? Water? Railroads? Anything at all like that? TIA to anyone who might know.

 

[Trident]

I believe SP is warped enough to have written some clues into his music. Is there anywhere all the lyrics to his songs can be found?

Did LE check cell phone pings on JP's phone for the night/time period Susan went missing? Did LE check cell phone pings for the time period JP took off in the rental car? Did LE ever check SP's cell phone pings for those same time periods?

 

[hollyblue]

Just a thought: Crystal Springs, UT. Has this area been searched?

http://mapq.st/A1w02A

Mystic Springs in Monroe, UT. Both of these areas have "camping"...and this location would make it easy for his backroad trip home thru to the Delta area and Simpson Springs. ??

http://g.co/maps/zh2ce

 

[hollyblue]

IDK, I do know he put 1000 miles on the rental car, so he went 500 one way, and 500 back. That is a lot of territory. Unless he was just driving around town aimlessly, which would not amount to 1000 miles, maybe a few give or take for in town stuff, but somewhere around 500 each way.

The night Susan was reported missing, and he said they went camping (in the van) was a Sunday and iirc, he and the boys did not return until Tuesday. What did they do for 2 days and how far did they go?

All of the MSM articles I've read have stated only "several hundred" miles was put on the rental vehicle. Which he rented two days later. Curious where you found the thousand? JP stated he left the house around 12:30 AM Monday...and he returned around 5 or 6 PM the same day...so we are talking about an approximate 17 hours of time.

I keep thinking about the crystals Brandon mentioned. I believe JP so hated the church at that point in their relationship.....that I can't help but think he would have placed her in a place referencing the religion. KWIM? I'm not familiar with LDS, so need some brainstorming and people familiar with the area. He planned this last Sunday very well...detailed and minute. He would have put alot of thought and effort into where he placed Susan. So would his papa. JMO, IMO, etc.

 

[hollyblue]

As far as I know, we have never heard about Steven Powell's whereabouts during the time Susan disappeared. I have always wondered if JP panicked and SP met him halfway between the UT and WA homes.

I also think we need to look back to what we know about the miles on the rental car. I don't think it was 1000, but rather several hundred.

I also agree fire was involved - and his hands being red are because of it.

From wikipedia: Flame temperatures of common items include a blow torch – which can burn usually up to around 1,600 °C (2,900 °F), a candle at 1,400 °C (2,600 °F),[5] a propane torch at 1,995 °C (3,620 °F), or a much hotter oxyacetylene combustion at 3,000 °C (5,400 °F). Cyanogen produces an even hotter flame with a temperature of over 4,525 °C (8,180 °F) when it burns in oxygen.[6]

I remember talking about the large amounts of plastic wrap type stuff he bought - was that confirmed?

Why the !@#$ wasn't he tailed in the rental car??!

Many of us talked about the "half way theory" and Papa Powell. My guess was Hell's Canyon Recreation Area because SP was from the Spokane area...and HCRA is just south of there and he would probably have known the area.

 

[21merc7]

All of the MSM articles I've read have stated only "several hundred" miles was put on the rental vehicle. Which he rented two days later. Curious where you found the thousand? JP stated he left the house around 12:30 AM Monday...and he returned around 5 or 6 PM the same day...so we are talking about an approximate 17 hours of time.

I keep thinking about the crystals Brandon mentioned. I believe JP so hated the church at that point in their relationship.....that I can't help but think he would have placed her in a place referencing the religion. KWIM? I'm not familiar with LDS, so need some brainstorming and people familiar with the area. He planned this last Sunday very well...detailed and minute. He would have put alot of thought and effort into where he placed Susan. So would his papa. JMO, IMO, etc.

I was just quoting what I had seen, then I found the older news article that is linked in this thread, that says around 200 or however it is phrased. So it was not 1000. However, I'm not sure all the news articles say the same amount, I didn't get that far in looking around.

It is another little detail to note, he killed everyone on a Sunday. Don't know if that means anything to anyone but him, but it is a common factor, which means you guys may be right in that he did to her what he did to the boys.

 

[Skully]

I have a "friend" who was going though a bad time with her hubby. She relayed to me that he told her if had wanted to kill her, he would put her in a mine and blew it up. Makes me think of Josh. Maybe that is what he did that night. He seems to like explosions.

I wonder if anyone knows of any mines that have collapsed or had any fires in them around that time.

I also have been thinking about Susan and her journal. Maybe they went on a trip and she wrote about it, or maybe the kids brought back small souvenirs from the trip. Josh would want a place he knew and had control over, so a place they had been before maybe.

 

[Jacie Estes]

I woke up just now, at 4am, because I was thinking/dreaming about mines. We know that jp says one thing and does another; I think he said something about mines to throw people off.

 

[sherryk]

hmmm clues how to find Susan.. I couldnt find a general forum any longer so this fits the best.

Well let see... if the police/LE would of had JP under survellance maybe they would have more clues AND perhaps they would of had a clue as to what was going to happen to the children.. gas cans, money withdrawn from bank.

I know man power and funding may be limited to follow the guy for 2 years, however it seems they could of done somthing to see his every single move, ESPECIALLY that they felt an arrest could come soon and for the FACT that he did lose custody to the Cox family... I would think LE would think.. hey he might be upset and watch his every move.. and not so much the police department.. but FBI profilers are trained to look into the mind and possible actions of the person of interest.. they should of been watching him.. but as many said.. second guessing now does not a bit of good.

The topic of how to find Susan.. josh's father.. that man knows alot

 

[Skully]

A very horrible thought... ("He: means JP)

He purchased propane.
He had a cutting torch.
He purchased large amounts of plastic tarping/sheeting.
He had damage to the skin on his hands.
He left with Susan, and she didn't return.
It was freezing that night (or lower).
He had some mileage on the rental car (between 200 and 1000; I'm thinking it was around 250 or so, or LE would've released close to 300, iykwim).
SP has been arrested in WA.
SP is being considered a POI in Susan's murder.
He has a storage unit in WA.

Putting that together, it may be that:
JP murdered Susan, used a propane torch to dismember her, wrapped her dismembered body in separate plastic sheeting, gave the wrapped packages to SP at about 100 miles or so from the house in Utah, SP came back to WA and put the wrapped plastic into a storage unit which had been rented either under an alias, or under JP's name, but definitely not under SPs name.

This would account for all aspects in the first part of my post.

Susan may not be found in mines or in searches because *she's not there.* I've been thinking while these two were utterly and completely evil, they were also fairly canny, and were aware of jurisdictional issues and the inability to search privately held property (rental units, storage, home, PO boxes are considered privately held property as long as the bills are being paid). Because of jurisdictional issues, Utah LE is unable to search the WA storage unit; and WA LE can't search because there was no crime yet that was in the person's name that held the lease to the storage unit.

This whole thing sickens me...but it accounts for everything we know as of now. Doesn't it? Or am I missing something?

Best-
Herding Cats

I think he had to dismember her only because it makes it easier to get a body in a trunk and it looks like you are putting stuff in a trunk for a trip rather than a body, if seen. Most people dismember because the person they killed is too heavey for them to pick up and get rid of. So the plastic serves for keeping an area clean as you do this an not leaving evidence for LE. But where did he do it? The kids are saying the mines, so I think she is in out there somewhere. They knew she was in the truck too. Storage locker are a good place, but you have to make sure it never has an oder; if you put them in a mine and blow it up or set a fire you don't have to worry about it ever being discovered.

 

[Oriah]

Just a thought: Crystal Springs, UT. Has this area been searched?

http://mapq.st/A1w02A

Mystic Springs in Monroe, UT. Both of these areas have "camping"...and this location would make it easy for his backroad trip home thru to the Delta area and Simpson Springs. ??

http://g.co/maps/zh2ce

hollyblue, your reminder of the Crystal Hot Springs area made me wonder about something. Does anyone know if the Powell's (before Susan disappeared) had any 'seasonal' passes or memberships to specific parks or camping areas?

 

[luckyme]

If SP met JP somewhere wouldnt the boys mention it? lease:

 

[21merc7]

If SP met JP somewhere wouldnt the boys mention it? lease:

Not if they did not see him, or were not there.

I was reading the old news articles yesterday, the ones up in the media links thread. I remember reading one that said the neighbors saw JP take the boys sledding the evening of the disappearance. So, what if SP came to the house then to get Susan and dispose of her? Just another possibility. **ETA: Never mind, not sure this was possible after reading this timeline:

http://www.examiner.com/headlines-i...ine-of-days-surrounding-susan-s-disappearance

I do not think SP will tell what he knows. I believe it is a big game to him. If he says anything, it would be the opposite of what is true.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Here's what I just noticed from looking at the timeline:

The day Susan disappears everyone is trying to call Josh. He is finally reached at about 3pm, and says he is driving around West Valley with the kids and Susan is at work (right). He is told the police are at his house. Yet he doesn't come home until 6pm.

I think he was still roughly 3 hours away at that point. As far as I know, if he really was driving around Valley City, too nervous to come home or something, there would have been sightings of him, yet we don't have any, right?

I'm thinking perhaps at 3 hours away is when his phone was finally back in an area that had cell service, or when he finally turned it back on.

 

[Oriah]

Here's what I just noticed from looking at the timeline:

The day Susan disappears everyone is trying to call Josh. He is finally reached at about 3pm, and says he is driving around West Valley with the kids and Susan is at work (right). He is told the police are at his house. Yet he doesn't come home until 6pm.

I think he was still roughly 3 hours away at that point. As far as I know, if he really was driving around Valley City, too nervous to come home or something, there would have been sightings of him, yet we don't have any, right?

I'm thinking perhaps at 3 hours away is when his phone was finally back in an area that had cell service, or when he finally turned it back on.

I am being ridiculously hopeful- but would think child-oriented food places (like fast food restaurants with play areas) or gas stations, convenience stores, dollar stores, that sort of thing might be places he might have stopped. Will look up routes of travel. How do you keep two small children content in a vehicle on a road trip- especially when you're alone? Or is it possible he pulled in somewhere, and slept while the kids took a nap? Like rest stops? Someone HAD to have seen them. Tourists passing through who don't realize what they may have seen? A clerk in a store somewhere?
Where did he get gas the day before? The day after?

What an absolutely horrible situation.

 

[cleo612]

Many of us talked about the "half way theory" and Papa Powell. My guess was Hell's Canyon Recreation Area because SP was from the Spokane area...and HCRA is just south of there and he would probably have known the area.

Wow, Hell's Canyon.

About as far away from the Celestial Heaven as a person could get on earth, in a figurative sense, isn't it?

With the twisted and warped thinking that Josh was known for, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if that is where he put her--in Hell's Canyon.

 

[21merc7]

Post from early on with summary on Dec 14, 2009, may be helpful:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4562189&postcount=743"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #1[/ame]