GUILTY CO - 1 dead, 8 injured, shots fired at STEM School in Highlands Ranch, 7 May 2019

[steelhauler34]

Just curious what's in the water in CO? Seems a lot of messed up things go on there compared to other places. Another Florida it would seem.

 

[Sillybilly]

Stop the bickering over gender / orientation and discuss the facts of this case.

Colorado303 said it perfectly upthread:

"ETA If shooter 2 was taking Testosterone that could be relevant. But ideally that’s where the trans discussion should begin and end IMO."

<bbm>

 

[gitana1]

Snipped for focus.

No, I don't think this "happened" solely because MEM was choosing to present as a male, or was "transitioning" or any of that. I think it "happened" because MEM decided to steal a gun and shoot up the school.

It has been written in media articles that MEM was "transitioning" from female to male. We have no idea what that term actually means, or what kind of supervised medical and psychological therapies MEM *may* have been engaging in as part of "transitioning". She may have just decided to change her clothing, name, and appearance to present as male on her own-- we have no idea at this point-- and likely won't have more details for quite some time (if at all).

But IF she is taking testosterone (legal or illegal), that is a big part of the whole picture that will be unquestionably be thoroughly explored by BOTH the prosecution AND the defense. It is both a potential rationale (but not excuse) for aggressiveness and antisocial behavior, and also a treatment for severe disabling gender dysphoria. There is no getting around that.

Exogenous administered testosterone is well documented in the literature to promote anti social and aggressive behaviors. There is no getting around that UNLESS MEM was NOT taking testosterone.

If this goes to trial (no plea), and MEM is taking T, experts on BOTH sides will testify. One side will say it isn't a problem, just an innocuous substance like a little vitamin-- and the other side's experts will say that it produces violent aggression in adolescents.

That's why it's significant. I don't expect to hear details on this (whether or not MEM is taking T) for months, if at all. They need to keep a lid on it until the defense decides how they want to use the information in MEM's defense. Oh, and it's a "medical privacy" thing, too, of course.

Oh the defense may try but cisgender men can't use the testosterone made me do it and neither can this kid.

Mental health, however, is always up for grabs of course.

 

[Wild Rose]

The kids at your school are lucky to have you. I’m glad someone has their back and is working to change bullies’ minds.

Thank you Colorado303. Truthfully, I don't know how to change bullies' minds. This kind of behavior is so sad and I do believe that they know what they are doing is wrong, but the pressures of life make them act out. The pressures from home and society to be perfect or something, not sure. There is also peer pressure to conform. Unfortunately, the best minds are not conformists. Do you know that CalTech scientists were just able to prove one of Einstein's theory of gravitational waves in deep space this past month? What a great mind that he had!! We need to appreciate each individual. We should do our best to embrace different ideas, different people. To keep an open mind. It is so sad to see a common denominator to many of these shootings, not all, but many. The bullying. And young minds so impressionable. I like this site because moderators work hard to keep discussions on the up and up!!!

 

[Wild Rose]

@Wild Rose I wish society would address bullying. Because it happens in the workplace as well.

Yes, horrible bullying, agree completely.

 

[gitana1]

Yes. In my opinion, all transgender individuals have serious psychological and social disabilities. I think they are born the way they are (except for the ones teens derisively call "trans-trenders") and have no control over their gender confusion. I believe the medical evidence is that these unfortunate people have a disability, or "birth condition" if that is preferred. I don't think they can change how they feel. It's no different, IMO, than any birth defect/ birth condition. They deserve treatment, and compassion. IMO, they deserve societal and workplace protections under the ADA. But not separate civil "rights".

Male brains and female brains tend to be different, structurally. The brains of many transgender persons are structurally like the brains of the "opposite sex". Transgender brains are more like their desired gender from an early age

Biological sex is not black and white as I'm sure you know. It's a spectrum. For the most part it appears that trans persons are part of that biological spectrum. So indeed they are born that way but it's not a psychological condition.

Of course being in a body that doesn't match one's brain and dealing with the social issues that stem from that can and does create psych issues.

And the defense will likely try to capitalize on that in this case.

But few humans are born with psych issues. Even people with organic brain diseases like schizophrenia? Studies show that abuse is a predictor for intensity and also, possibly, for the existence of it at all in some people.

I don't think being trans stems from psych issues any more than being an intersex person with indeterminate reproductive organs does.

 

[SouthAussie]

RSBM ..... Like the Newtown coward's mother.

Short story ...
In my country we have been having some difficulty with more than several instances of young inebriated men killing other young men with a single massive punch to the head (for stupid, stupid reasons, or no reason at all).
This type of single blow used to be called a King Hit. It is now called a Coward's Punch. And the law has now placed a minimum prison sentence on perpetrators of killing with a coward's punch - no allowances for their lawyers to plead.

I think it is good to make changes when something seems to be a trend that glorifies killers in some of their peers minds. Call it what it is. Let people know there is no glory in what they have done, with anybody. The whole place sees them as a coward.

We hope that this will gradually (or very quickly) cease this kind of terrible event in my country. I hope you all can find a solution to reversing this terrible trend of young people killing and maiming other young people due to their anger at the unfairness of life.

 

[Colorado303]

Just curious what's in the water in CO? Seems a lot of messed up things go on there compared to other places. Another Florida it would seem.

Sure seems that way sometimes. I got curious and looked up school shooting stats by state. As of May 2018 Colorado was only ranked 13th. I guess ours are more publicized than those in some other places.

I don’t know what to say about the Watts case, Kelsey Berreth “disappearance” and Aurora theatre shooter. We’ve had our share of monsters and crackpots for sure.



These U.S. States Have More School Shootings Than Any Other

 

[Elley Mae]

One of the two suspects in the Colorado school shooting is female, reportedly transgender

One of the two suspects in the Colorado school shooting is female, reportedly transgender

Details are beginning to emerge into who the adult male shooter is as well. Tuesday night, a car was towed from Erickson’s home that had “F--- SOCIETY” spray-painted on the vehicle along with “666” and an apparent pentagram painted on the hood.

 

[JanetElaine]

I know we can't link to fundraisers, but it warmed my heart to see that FRC (FIRST Robotics Competition), in which Kendrick's team 4418 is a competitor, has started a victim support and memorial fund for the team. My family is very involved with FIRST and it doesn't surprise me they would do this. MOO

Also, here is a good article from the New York Times. I hadn't read it or seen it posted, but it's sometimes hard to tell with the way links show up in posts now, so forgive me if it is a repeat.

Colorado School Shooting Victim Died Trying to Stop the Gunman

 

[K_Z]

Glad the students re-grouped and took back THEIR vigil for their friend and classmate. Sad, and frustrated, that anyone thought a vigil was the time and place for an opportunistic political lecture. Several thousand at attendance at 2 vigils. Neighboring high school hosted one, the other at a church.

‘This Was Not About Us’: Grieving Students Walk Out of Colorado School Shooting Vigil
They were upset they were not part of the program put together by gun control advocates that saw politicians talk.

‘This Was Not About Us’: Grieving Students Walk Out of Colorado School Shooting Vigil

STEM School students burst into spontaneous protest during vigil at Highlands Ranch High School

More than 1,000 people packed St. Andrew United Methodist Church at separate vigil

STEM School shooting: Students burst into protest at vigil

Colorado students walk out of vigil after politicians talk about gun control. They chanted ‘mental health’

Colorado students walk out of vigil after politicians talk about gun control. They chanted ‘mental health’

​

STEM School students walk out of planned vigil, frustrated by political talk

Students who came to the event said they were frustrated to hear politicians speak, and the discussion turn to gun control.

STEM School students walk out of planned vigil, frustrated by political talk

 

[Gardenista]

I guess this means MEM was the one who killed Kendrick Classmates reveal second Denver gunman was transgender and 'didn't get support he needed' | Daily Mail Online

 

[kaen]

Glad the students re-grouped and took back THEIR vigil for their friend and classmate. Sad, and frustrated, that anyone thought a vigil was the time and place for an opportunistic political lecture. Several thousand at attendance at 2 vigils. Neighboring high school hosted one, the other at a church.


‘This Was Not About Us’: Grieving Students Walk Out of Colorado School Shooting Vigil


STEM School shooting: Students burst into protest at vigil

Colorado students walk out of vigil after politicians talk about gun control. They chanted ‘mental health’
​

STEM School students walk out of planned vigil, frustrated by political talk

One vigil was organized by Moms Demand Action For Gun Sense and Team Enough. MDA is a group dedicated to issues related to gun violence, specifically gun control. It is not a surprise what the agenda was.

"Students from Team Enough said the event was organized on such short notice they were unable to find a way to include STEM students in the program."

"A few rose to speak, but soon the crowd filed out and left. Standing outside the building in the freezing rain, some began chanting. But they quickly dispersed as Douglas County Sheriff's vehicles began arriving at the school.

One mom of a STEM student said it was a case of good intentions gone wrong."

'I really appreciate what they tried to do here tonight, but our kids didn’t want to be talked at,' she said." Daily Beast

Students later returned to the gym and spoke at a microphone before the event concluded at 9 p.m.

“They don’t get what we went through yesterday, they don’t get what it’s like to have to run for your life,” said one student captured in a video tweeted by Colorado Public Radio education reporter Jenny Brundin.Jenny Brundin
✔@CPRBrundin

"Wild scene where STEM school kids walked out of Highlands Ranch, upset that the event was the politicians talking about gun control. So they took over themselves and I have their own vigil. #STEMShooting


“They don’t get what it’s like to have people yelling at you, saying ‘school shooter, run for your life.’ You do not get what it’s like to look a teacher straight in the eye and say, ‘run, run for your life.'”

The vigil had been organized by students linked to the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence."
Colorado students walk out of vigil after politicians talk about gun control. They chanted ‘mental health’

<modsnip: gun control statement>

 

[Gardenista]

Glad the students re-grouped and took back THEIR vigil for their friend and classmate. Sad, and frustrated, that anyone thought a vigil was the time and place for an opportunistic political lecture. Several thousand at attendance at 2 vigils. Neighboring high school hosted one, the other at a church.



‘This Was Not About Us’: Grieving Students Walk Out of Colorado School Shooting Vigil




STEM School shooting: Students burst into protest at vigil

Colorado students walk out of vigil after politicians talk about gun control. They chanted ‘mental health’

​

STEM School students walk out of planned vigil, frustrated by political talk

So impressed with these kids. I think it is the way their STEM brains work based on fact and logic. I'm a science girl myself, so I totally get them.

 

[Gardenista]

 

[mickey2942]

I am actually very interested that the perpetrator is female. Even though she is cisgender and transitioning, this is profound, I haven't seen any information about female mass shooters, usually they are exclusively male.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

One of the two suspects in the Colorado school shooting is female, reportedly transgender

One of the two suspects in the Colorado school shooting is female, reportedly transgender

Details are beginning to emerge into who the adult male shooter is as well. Tuesday night, a car was towed from Erickson’s home that had “F--- SOCIETY” spray-painted on the vehicle along with “666” and an apparent pentagram painted on the hood.

No red flags here.......

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Not holding kids responsible for their actions and continuously making excuses, placing blame and ignoring their behavior and or actions is a huge part of the problem. Everyone deserves a metal, it's just a phase, they are discovering who they are, they have gender identity issues, it's video games, etc., This type of mentality needs to change.
jmo

 

[Sillybilly]

Gun control discussion is not allowed at Websleuths. It is a social justice issue that will never be solved at Websleuths, it goes nowhere, it results in nothing but arguing, and Websleuths does not have the staff to deal with it all.

A new member who isn't yet familiar with The Rules made a one line post about gun control. Excusable.

What is NOT excusable are the next 20 posts that had to be removed, made by members who know better or should know better.

Next member who makes a post about gun control will receive a minimum 1 week Time Out.

Thread is open again.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I can see why more and more parents and children are choosing online and/or at home schooling.
jmo