CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #42

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  • #681
This is something that has bothered me, why did MR not have any plans, even tentative? They were all maybe and we might. Nothing was set.
IMO if DR forgot a coat and it was an issue for MR, then why not buy one?!

SBM

This isn't directed specifically at you, AZG. Just jumping off your post.

On the other occasions where M had the boys, did he make concrete plans? Obviously for the road trips plans must have been made, but if there were other times when the boys were just going to be at the house, was he a planner?

If Mark had never done any of that before the divorce it seems unlikely that he was going to suddenly become something he wasn't after the divorce. I don't think that Mark's failure to have plans in anyway indicates that he was planning to "do something" to Dylan. I think he just is not successful at making good things happen for his kids.
 
  • #682
  • #683
SBM

This isn't directed specifically at you, AZG. Just jumping off your post.

On the other occasions where M had the boys, did he make concrete plans? Obviously for the road trips plans must have been made, but if there were other times when the boys were just going to be at the house, was he a planner?

If Mark had never done any of that before the divorce it seems unlikely that he was going to suddenly become something he wasn't after the divorce. I don't think that Mark's failure to have plans in anyway indicates that he was planning to "do something" to Dylan. I think he just is not successful at making good things happen for his kids.
If he couldn't even manage to make plans for Thanksgiving, it's pretty sad, IMO. But I have known people who were just so "all into ME" that they didn't even think about what anyone else wanted, and the ones who are "too tired" to do anything for anyone else and the ones who are too clueless to plan further ahead than five minutes ago. Somehow these people never got the "There are other people in this world to think about besides me" gene. (Speaking only about the ones I know)
 
  • #684
I think that MR just wants to find his son.






I am just asking, with all respect, what he has done that makes you think he wants to find his son?

Other than saying that he was going to get some flyers to give to truck drivers, what has he done to help? I'm not talking about showing up at a search organized by other people, or attending a vigil, or giving a TV interview -- these were all arranged and organized by other people.

Now I know that someone will pipe in that he has given interviews to the police, and allowed them to search his house (the second time by search warrant), but really, if he had *refused* to do either of these things, he would have been in hot water, and he knows that.

So...what has he initiated? What am I missing?

Thank you.
 
  • #685
If he couldn't even manage to make plans for Thanksgiving, it's pretty sad, IMO. But I have known people who were just so "all into ME" that they didn't even think about what anyone else wanted, and the ones who are "too tired" to do anything for anyone else and the ones who are too clueless to plan further ahead than five minutes ago. Somehow these people never got the "There are other people in this world to think about besides me" gene. (Speaking only about the ones I know)

I agree, unfortunately the "There are other people in this world to think about besides me" gene isn't handed out at the hospital when the babies are born.

Thanksgiving planning can be really hard for people. There's an expectation of Norman Rockwell-type dinners with tons of family and friends and then there's a reality post-divorce of a man/woman with a couple of kids. I can see someone getting hung up on this. Especially if this was the first big holiday MR was responsible for.

Doesn't excuse him though. <modsnip>.
 
  • #686
I was speaking with my 10 y/o grandson this morning while taking him to school. He is about to go visit his father where he lives, in another state, for a week.

I questioned him (my grandson) almost felt like I should have mirandized him first.

Do you guys have anything fun planned while you are there? While I won’t go into any detail, he did tell me the plans for all but two days, one of those was a “my choice” day and he hadn’t figured it out yet and the other was a “just me & dad day but it’s a surprise”. He knew exactly where his father & fiancé’ would be on one day (they had previous commitment they could not change) and exactly who he would be staying with.

Does mom pack your clothes or do you? I do, she tells me how many clothes to pack though. (Meaning she will tell him to pack 6 sets of clothing)

Well, what happens if you forget something? Dad will get it for me.

Even a coat? No, cause I have one there.

Well, what if it’s too small because you really are a big boy? He’d get me one, one time he went through all my stuff and some of it was too small and some of it was too big so I only had one thing left so he got me new clothes to keep there.

I found this a pretty interesting conversation.
He already knew exactly what they were doing; dad even allowed for a couple days of father/son time that would be special.
He has clothes there and still takes clothes with him.
Because he isn’t there on a daily basis, dad is still prepared by having clothing at his home as well.
If he has outgrown something or forgotten something, dad obviously has no problem making sure his son has what he needs. (good thing because dad would have to deal with an upset grandma :))
Mom allows my grandson to pack his own bags at the age of 10, if he forgets something it is his responsibility.

Here we have a child that just recently started traveling by himself (use to go with his paternal grandma on the plane) and he knows everything to expect. I'm sure there may be changes of plans, or perhaps not. Dad is prepared and allows for the unexpected forgotten items.

This is something that has bothered me, why did MR not have any plans, even tentative? They were all maybe and we might. Nothing was set.
IMO if DR forgot a coat and it was an issue for MR, then why not buy one?!

This is a lovely example of good co-parenting and a well prepared child. I am delighted your grandson feels so comfortable and secure visiting his dad. Should make it easier for his mom and grandma to sleep at night while he is there. Also offers a tremendous contrast with Dylan's November visit. There are a thousand ways to make your child feel valued; offering security (so the child knows what to expect, even when in a different routine), considering the child's wants and needs, communicating with that child, etc. I need not condemn MR for being a poor parent, that is abundantly clear, IMO. I'm pointing out that Dylan may not have been valued as a beloved child by MR. As a possession? As a tool to get to ER? As an object to gain/lose income? But definitely dehumanized. Sure, many children of crappy parents and crappy divorces are subjected to the same and don't end up dead. My point is that it is easier to dispatch with a person if you are not accustomed to viewing and valuing them as a person in the first place. Manyof us are astounded at MR's lack of engagement. I think he has been disengaged from Dylan for a long time.
 
  • #687
This is a lovely example of good co-parenting and a well prepared child. I am delighted your grandson feels so comfortable and secure visiting his dad. Should make it easier for his mom and grandma to sleep at night while he is there. Also offers a tremendous contrast with Dylan's November visit. There are a thousand ways to make your child feel valued; offering security (so the child knows what to expect, even when in a different routine), considering the child's wants and needs, communicating with that child, etc. I need not condemn MR for being a poor parent, that is abundantly clear, IMO. I'm pointing out that Dylan may not have been valued as a beloved child by MR. As a possession? As a tool to get to ER? As an object to gain/lose income? But definitely dehumanized. Sure, many children of crappy parents and crappy divorces are subjected to the same and don't end up dead. My point is that it is easier to dispatch with a person if you are not accustomed to viewing and valuing them as a person in the first place. Manyof us are astounded at MR's lack of engagement. I think he has been disengaged from Dylan for a long time.

Beautiful post...and so very true.
 
  • #688
No. I think he wants them to find Dylan in the lake. I also think that he thinks they will conclude that Dylan fell in and drowned.

The evidence will get him. In the back of my mind is a toddler that went missing. Was found in the river behind the apartment building. Toddler drowned, but had bath water in his lungs.

WOW! That is some fantastic forensic detective work on the part of LE to actually test the water in the lungs to determine whether it was bath water or river water. I would have never thought to do that! A murderer could have gotten away with murder!

I know it's off topic, but how did the case end? Did the parent try to say they drowned in the bath but put them in the river? They would have been better off saying the toddler drowned in the bath to begin with and that it was a horrible "accident."

I still can't believe that children are not safe with their own parents.
 
  • #689
I think that last text was in reply to ryans.
Probably a simple OK


Ryan: (Time 9:27 p.m. Nov. 18) Call me when you get here too.

I posted a quote by R the other day that said the last email he got from Dylan was at 8:00, so I don't think it was him.
 
  • #690
~Respectfully snipped~
From Dr. Phil, pt. 2:

CR:
It’s always in the garage. Then how come that’s the first …you noticed that before his bike? Before his footprints?

This has come up before, but I don't think it has really been discussed, or if it has, I missed it.

Does anyone have a theory as to why the footprints and the bike keep getting mentioned? The bike wasn't missing and there was no snow on the ground, so why would those things be noticable? Why do you think this is a sticking point?

Salem
 
  • #691
I posted a quote by R the other day that said the last email he got from Dylan was at 8:00, so I don't think it was him.

I don't think it was R either, mainly because R shared all the emails he received - or at least it appeared to be all of them?

Salem
 
  • #692
I have never thought this was premeditated. I think there was an argument and a struggle and Dylan lost sadly :(

However, within the law, premeditation can be formed within a minute or less. It does not have to be months of planning, weeks or even days. It can be any amount of time that it takes a person to decide to continue their actions that is intended to cause the other person's death.

In Colorado, first degree murder must commonly occur in one of three manners: (1) intentional murder where the person after deliberation and with intent to cause the death of a person, does cause the death of that person or of another person; (2) felony murder, which means that someone was killed in the course of another crime such as arson, robbery, burglary, kidnapping, and sexual assault; (3) extreme indifference murder where the person does not target anyone in particular but given his extreme indifference to life generally he engages in conduct that creates a grave risk of death to a person, and thereby causes the death of another.

In The People of the State of Colorado vs. William V. Sneed, the appellate court held that premeditation required deliberation and reflection to create the premeditated intent before the act.

This means that between the forming of the intent to do the act and the act itself, an appreciable length of time must have elapsed to allow deliberation, reflection and judgment. U.S. v. Mack, 466 F.2d 333 (D.C. Cir.)

From Colorado State Law, I picked out some of the words/concepts that we were already discussing and then some we may be looking at in the future:

Abduction: To take someone away from a place without that person's consent or by fraud.

Accomplice: A person who knowingly and voluntarily unites with the principal offender in a criminal act through aiding, abetting, advising, or encouraging the offender. Mere presence, acquiescence, or silence, in the absence of a duty to act is not enough to constitute being an accomplice.
http://www.courts.state.co.us/Glossary.cfm

Child abuse: Defined by state statutes. Usually occurs when a parent purposefully harms a child.

Child neglect: Defined by state statutes. Usually arises from a parent's passive indifference to a child's well-being, such as failing to feed a child or leaving a child alone for an extended time.
Children’s trust: A trust set up as part of a will or outside of a will to provide funds for a child.

Circumstantial evidence: All evidence of an indirect nature that implies something occurred but does not directly prove it.

Civil action: Action brought to enforce, redress, or protect private rights. In general, all types of actions other than criminal proceedings

: The level of proof sometimes required in a civil case for the plaintiff to prevail. Is more than a preponderance of the evidence but less than beyond a reasonable doubt.

Conspiracy: An agreement between two or more persons to commit a criminal act. Those forming the conspiracy are called conspirators.

Double jeopardy: The constitutional prohibition against a second prosecution of a person for the same crime.

Duress: Where a person is prevented from acting (or not acting) according to their free will, by threats or force of another, it is said to be "Under duress"

Evidence: The testimony, writings, material objects, or other things presented to the senses that are offered to prove the existence or nonexistence of a fact.

Fugitive: One who runs away to avoid arrest, prosecution or imprisonment.

Grand jury: A panel of members of the public chosen from regular jury pool lists. This panel determines whether there is probable cause to try an accused for a serious crime. Any charges issued by a grand jury are called indictments.

Impaired mental condition: A condition of mind, caused by mental disease or defect, which does not constitute insanity but prevents the person form forming the culpable mental state which is an essential element of the crime. If found not guilty because of impaired mental condition, the person is committed to the Department of Institutions.

Indictment: A written statement, presented by a grand jury to the district court, which charges the commission of a crime by an alleged offender.

Kidnapping: The unlawful taking and carrying away of a human being by force and against his or her will.

Manslaughter: The unlawful killing of another without malice; may be either voluntary, upon sudden impulse, or involuntary.

Mens rea: Literally "guilty mind", the criminal intent to commit an act forbidden by statute. One of the two basic requirements, along with a prohibited act, which must occur for a crime to exist.

Opinion evidence: Evidence of what a witness thinks, believes, or infers as distinguished from personal knowledge of the facts. Generally, opinion evidence is admissible only when given by an expert unless the opinion is based on matters common to laypersons

Plea: Five pleas possible in criminal cases: (1) not guilty; (2) not guilty by reason of insanity; (3) not guilty because of impaired mental condition; (4) no contest; and (5) guilty.

Search warrant: An order in writing by a judicial officer, directing a law enforcement officer to search for and seize any property that constitutes evidence of the commission of a crime, contraband, the fruits of crime or things otherwise criminally possessed; or property designed or intended for use which is or has been used as the means of committing a crime. A search warrant may be issued upon an affidavit or sworn oral testimony.

Victim: Any person aggrieved by the conduct of an offender. For a complete listing of who may be considered a victim, please see Section 18-1.3-602(4) of the Colorado Revised Statutes.

http://www.courts.state.co.us/Glossary.cfm

I apologize for getting carried away!
 
  • #693
[/B]




I am just asking, with all respect, what he has done that makes you think he wants to find his son?

Other than saying that he was going to get some flyers to give to truck drivers, what has he done to help? I'm not talking about showing up at a search organized by other people, or attending a vigil, or giving a TV interview -- these were all arranged and organized by other people.

Now I know that someone will pipe in that he has given interviews to the police, and allowed them to search his house (the second time by search warrant), but really, if he had *refused* to do either of these things, he would have been in hot water, and he knows that.

So...what has he initiated? What am I missing?

Thank you.

I posted a quote by R the other day that said the last email he got from Dylan was at 8:00, so I don't think it was him.

Well Im not so sure because R sends him a text at the same time so that to me says something.

They both have that 937 time and it is possible LE asked him not to reveal that last text message. I dont know I cant imagine who else would get that text.

JMO
 
  • #694
~Respectfully snipped~

This has come up before, but I don't think it has really been discussed, or if it has, I missed it.

Does anyone have a theory as to why the footprints and the bike keep getting mentioned? The bike wasn't missing and there was no snow on the ground, so why would those things be noticeable? Why do you think this is a sticking point?

Salem
MR: There’s several places that that fishing pole is… it was either next to the TV

CR: It’s always in the garage. Then how come that’s the first …you noticed that before his bike? Before his footprints?

MR: Well, you sure know a lot, you sure…

CR: I’ve investigated it in my mind since this happened.

MR: Well, boy, then why do we have legal enf… or law enforcement involved when we got you two…

CR: Because they have to deal with people like you who won’t tell them the answers… who won’t cooperate…

BBM
I'm not sure why CR thinks the bike or lack of footprints should have been noticed right away.
 
  • #695
I think the recipient of the 9:37 text was T. And I don't think it was sent by Dylan.

But, if Dylan's cellphone stopped working for whatever reason at 8:01pm...that would have been prior to them arriving at MR's home. However, Cory has stated elsewhere that law enforcement believe Dylan did make it to his dad's home (but law enforcement aren't sharing why they believe that.) So, there are a few possibles here ---

1) Dylan did send the 9:37 text from some other electronic device & the context of that text leads law enforcement to believe it was definitely sent by Dylan (such as help me - my dad's goin' nuts)

or

2) Law enforcement found some sort of concrete forensic evidence that Dylan had been in the home (such as evidence of a struggle or injury) or maybe the cadaver dogs picked up a scent inside the home

or

3) Dylan did send the 9:37 text and all was fine at that point

or

4) MR sent the 9:37 text and Dylan was unconscious or already deceased in the home. (and #2 would apply as well.)

jmho
 
  • #696
Well Im not so sure because R sends him a text at the same time so that to me says something.

They both have that 937 time and it is possible LE asked him not to reveal that last text message. I dont know I cant imagine who else would get that text.

JMO

Similar times but not exact. R's was at 9:27, the last electronic communication was at 9:37. I hate to think it was a typo. It would be great if some of these interviewers would ask about it :twocents:
 
  • #697
Maybe he did ! Maybe that friend is a witness to some HINK!

Let's say T, the kid who lives the closest, got that last text.
DR says come in the morning at 6 and my dad 'll take us down to
R's house together. T shows up at 6 , witnesses some super HINK
and goes back to his car and tells his dad or whoever drove him
and said I saw / heard x y z in the window. Maybe it's not super HINK
enough to call the cops until later ..... when they realize D is missing.
Maybe MR didn't know that DR had txt T and asked him to come by and get
a ride so MR has no clue T was ever at the house that morning or saw
anything. Maybe that's why all DR's friends other than T have been vocal
and public. Hmmmm
This is a straw grasp, I realize !

I like this theory because it would mean that LE has something serious to guide them. My only question is why wouldn't they have arrested MR by now? This would be an eye witness account of something terribly wrong, kwim? I think it would be sufficient with everything else to get an arrest warrant?

Hmmmm.............

Salem
 
  • #698
But, if Dylan's cellphone stopped working for whatever reason at 8:01pm...that would have been prior to them arriving at MR's home. However, Cory has stated elsewhere that law enforcement believe Dylan did make it to his dad's home. So, there are a few possibles here ---

1) Dylan did send the 9:37 text from some other electronic device & the context of that text leads law enforcement to believe it was definitely sent by Dylan (such as help me - my dad's goin' nuts)

or

2) Law enforcement found some sort of concrete forensic evidence that Dylan had been in the home (such as evidence of a struggle or injury) or maybe the cadaver dogs picked up a scent inside the home

or

3) Dylan did send the 9:37 text and all was fine at that point

or

4) MR sent the 9:37 text and Dylan was unconscious or already deceased in the home.

jmho

or 5) the text was part of a conversation with someone else that led to Dylan's disappearance the next day -

a) plans to be picked up the next by someone, which would definitely be known to LE by now just not revealed to us.
b) plans to meet a friend to do something in the morning like hang out at the river or campground areas, which also would definitely be known to LE by now and not revealed to us
c) communication of information to someone (known to LE but not to us) about Dylan's whereabouts and situation that were then used to plan an abduction the next day.
 
  • #699
However, Cory has stated elsewhere that law enforcement believe Dylan did make it to his dad's home (but law enforcement aren't sharing why they believe that.)

snipped

Where was this stated? I must have missed this. I've been under the assumption that LE had not told anyone if Dylan made it to the house or not.
 
  • #700
snipped

Where was this stated? I must have missed this. I've been under the assumption that LE had not told anyone if Dylan made it to the house or not.

MrsPC can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that it is based on Bender's statement that either something happened at the house or Dylan was abducted from the house and that Bender could not come up with a 3rd option. I think this is in the MB interviews. But there is a strong implication that Dylan made it to MR's if there is no 3rd option.

Salem
 
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